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What's The Deal With Blue/black Ink?


daTomoT

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daT, I felt the exact same way you do - blue-black sounded to me like the ink equivalent of a rice diet - until someone sent me a snail that had a blue-black like the sky of an oncoming summer storm at twilight, all greys and blues. It was just lovely, all the shading and everything. I was smitten. The writer had used a vintage ink, so I couldn't just go and get the same one, but I found something close enough that I like. And for now, at least, most of my daily writing is happening in blue-black.

 

Heh, you'll get bit too one day. :D

 

Wow Daisy, that sounds awesome! I think I'll look out for a good blue/black on the British Ink Exchange thread. Here in the UK, we lack Goulet Pens to supply us samples. :(

 

Indeed, a lot of people like B/B for signatures, and a good few for colour. If I was to buy a blue/black ink (again, it costse the same as a full bottle to ship a Goulet Pens sample in), what would you all suggest? Something with a good but of shading!

I really rate the reformulated Diamine Blue-Black. The scan below was written with a Lamy Safari M nib, just dipped so it's a stiff, dry-writing nib to start with. Plenty of scope with this ink and the right flexible nib of your choice, I shouldn't wonder.

fpn_1346448285__new_diamine_blue-black_r2.jpg

 

 

The Good Captain

"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"

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daT, I felt the exact same way you do - blue-black sounded to me like the ink equivalent of a rice diet - until someone sent me a snail that had a blue-black like the sky of an oncoming summer storm at twilight, all greys and blues. It was just lovely, all the shading and everything. I was smitten. The writer had used a vintage ink, so I couldn't just go and get the same one, but I found something close enough that I like. And for now, at least, most of my daily writing is happening in blue-black.

 

Heh, you'll get bit too one day. :D

 

Wow Daisy, that sounds awesome! I think I'll look out for a good blue/black on the British Ink Exchange thread. Here in the UK, we lack Goulet Pens to supply us samples. :(

 

Indeed, a lot of people like B/B for signatures, and a good few for colour. If I was to buy a blue/black ink (again, it costse the same as a full bottle to ship a Goulet Pens sample in), what would you all suggest? Something with a good but of shading!

I really rate the reformulated Diamine Blue-Black. The scan below was written with a Lamy Safari M nib, just dipped so it's a stiff, dry-writing nib to start with. Plenty of scope with this ink and the right flexible nib of your choice, I shouldn't wonder.

fpn_1346448285__new_diamine_blue-black_r2.jpg

 

Thanks for the advice! It looks like a nice colour. I also like Diamine ink, it's good value for money! £7.85 for 80ml, shipping included. Anyone have a scan of Diamine Denim?

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According to Richard a good blue black takes 24 hours before it's turned all the way.

That depends on the paper though. I had some ERRS take a week on some paper. On one paper, it remained the Blue-black I wanted.

 

I like a bit of blue in my blue black....Waterman.

 

ERRS is a blue black that turns before my eyes, and Daisy has a beautiful description. :thumbup:

I really like that in a easy full flex nibbed pen.

 

I also have a home made Pelikan Blue---Black. But then again that is not the illegal in the US ink....that I must get for that reason.

 

As a child back in the silver dime days, I liked blue black in both fountain and ball point.

 

It's not now a must have color, in I have three, but MB blue black will be bought too.

 

It can be a paper bound color that sneaks up on you.

 

After all, who can explain a murky green before one has a couple.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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After all, who can explain a murky green before one has a couple.

 

My 'Ebony Blue' (is that meant to be a blue/black?) is actually what I would call a green/black. It's a very dark green that shades with a slightly lighter green, especially when diluted 1:1 with distilled water.

 

post-92690-0-30708000-1351767502.jpg

 

Apologies.. my handwriting has improved since.. :embarrassed_smile:

 

PS: Nib = Ink

Edited by daTomoT

Please check out my blog, datbookreviews, for all Fiction and Fantasy book reviews!

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In the old days aniline blue W.S. was the defacto dye to color the initial colorless iron gall solution. My Urkundentinte also uses this type of dye to initially dye my ink, but I have managed to use other types of dyes to make green-black, cyan-black, purple-black, orange-brown, brown-black types of ink. Note: modern IG formula only contain a relatively small amount of the permanent IG components, but I revived an old formula for document ink according to the german and US government standards for archival writing ink and adapted it, to be conveniently used in standard fountain pens. This is a true blue-black in the literal meaning.

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daT, I felt the exact same way you do - blue-black sounded to me like the ink equivalent of a rice diet - until someone sent me a snail that had a blue-black like the sky of an oncoming summer storm at twilight, all greys and blues. It was just lovely, all the shading and everything. I was smitten. The writer had used a vintage ink, so I couldn't just go and get the same one, but I found something close enough that I like. And for now, at least, most of my daily writing is happening in blue-black.

 

Heh, you'll get bit too one day. :D

 

Wow Daisy, that sounds awesome! I think I'll look out for a good blue/black on the British Ink Exchange thread. Here in the UK, we lack Goulet Pens to supply us samples. :(

 

Indeed, a lot of people like B/B for signatures, and a good few for colour. If I was to buy a blue/black ink (again, it costse the same as a full bottle to ship a Goulet Pens sample in), what would you all suggest? Something with a good but of shading!

I really rate the reformulated Diamine Blue-Black. The scan below was written with a Lamy Safari M nib, just dipped so it's a stiff, dry-writing nib to start with. Plenty of scope with this ink and the right flexible nib of your choice, I shouldn't wonder.

fpn_1346448285__new_diamine_blue-black_r2.jpg

 

Thanks for the advice! It looks like a nice colour. I also like Diamine ink, it's good value for money! £7.85 for 80ml, shipping included. Anyone have a scan of Diamine Denim?

As you requested.

fpn_1351767948__diamine_denim.jpg

 

 

The Good Captain

"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"

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Thanks. So what is the black element of these? To me they just look like blues that shade well from dark to light?

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Thanks. So what is the black element of these? To me they just look like blues that shade well from dark to light?

Perhaps to be pedantic, we should call them Dark-Blue-Dark inks then.

The Good Captain

"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"

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After a day-to a week on most papers Blue-blacks shade towards black.

Out side of Waterman...there may be others, that stay in the blue range.

 

I am limited in experience, but did do a 47 paper, 17 nib of this and that width and flex test of ESSR.

Looks a bit weird, in I don't have a scanner, and 'photographed' through a large magnifying glass.

Not perfect, but does show what a difference paper and nib width and flex has on an ink.

You can find it in the Com's vintage '90's search section.

 

ESSR is normally an ink where you can watch it shade from a blue to black with in minutes; most of the older IG inks take longer.

On some papers it kept a blue tinge that I wanted a BLUE-black, for a week, on other papers it turned it's true keeping color of mostly black with in the 24 hours that is common and or expected in most blue blacks.....really they are black-blues after a day.

 

ESSR comes in a very big bottle; 110 ml of ink. Sandy became interested in it. You can read a thread with a hundred posts on it. It is not expensive cost @ €12 I think. It is an English ink, so would be easy for you to get. I recommend it.

 

You would enjoy it if you have enough nibs of this and that flex, and or width (8-12)....nice papers are a must for any ink.

 

You need a scatter of widths in a nail, a couple of regular flex, a couplesemi-flex, a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex and an easy full flex would show off all your inks.

I have been pleasantly surprised by regular flex F and M nibs with a number of shading inks on nice paper.

 

I think one should buy some good to better paper after every third bottle new ink.

I of course did it backwards, a lot of pens, with an ink or three, then a ink splurge and finally went after paper.

 

Paper is more important than ink, if you want your ink to dance at midnight.

 

I am how ever keen that everyone get at least one of the following semi-flex, a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex and an easy full flex nibs as soon as they can handle it. I favor working up the flex chain, so one develops a light hand naturally.

 

Logic generally has nothing to do with ink and nib width and or flex and papers.

It's not rocket science; it's alchemy. :blink:

 

Pharmacist's inks :notworthy1: are on my to buy list.

 

There is a thread over in Ink Reviews where some great poster shows 34?? different murky Green inks, that is well worth looking for.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Thanks. So what is the black element of these? To me they just look like blues that shade well from dark to light?

Perhaps to be pedantic, we should call them Dark-Blue-Dark inks then.

 

 

Perhaps so.

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Now with Increasing Fountain Pen Related Posts!

Pelikan M200, Hero 608, Parker IM, Serwex 162, Manuscript Calligraphy Pen, Lamy Vista, Guanleming 956, Mabie Todd 200/60, Noodler's Konrad. Grail Pen: Yard-O-Led Viceroy Victorian.

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I'm waiting for Sandy1 to come in here . . . :)

 

I've become a big aficionado of that classic blue black color lately. The reason is that the shading properties are pretty amazing and can change the ink from pen to pen. I like being able to see the different shades of blue darkening into (or almost) black. LAMY, PR Sonic Blue, R&K Verdigris, Sailor Jentle Blue Black, Diamine Teal, Diamine Denim, Noodler's Bad Belted Kingfisher and R&K Salix are all rocking my socks in that area (some tend to go more blue than others, but depending on the pen, they can give me some pretty awesome effects)

 

As for green--I just got into greens and only have two in my collection (MontBlanc Racing Green and PR Sherwood Forest) . . . I want to get a lighter green such as Diamine Meadow . . . it's sort of fun and different. I have my color associations and Green I associate with spring/nature/growth/the poetry of Garcia Lorca and sometimes that's where I am with my writing.

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Have been enjoying some N Legal Lapis (BP) - a lovely blue/black with a dollop of teal. I liked the sample so much I bought a whole bottle! (Pendemonium exclusive) The other b/b I really like is FPN's Noodler's Van Gogh Starry Night, which is currently temporarily unavailable. I think they both show off their shading best (and dry faster) when diluted a bit.

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So, will it be a blue/black or a grey that claims my next £10? Both would look very nice coming out of my new Serwex 162. :wub: Can anybody suggest to me a blue/black that shades really well? :puddle: :puddle: :puddle: Shading :cloud9: :notworthy1:

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Now with Increasing Fountain Pen Related Posts!

Pelikan M200, Hero 608, Parker IM, Serwex 162, Manuscript Calligraphy Pen, Lamy Vista, Guanleming 956, Mabie Todd 200/60, Noodler's Konrad. Grail Pen: Yard-O-Led Viceroy Victorian.

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Don't forget that Diamine UK do the 30ml bottles for £2.67, with free postage and a box of mixed Intl. Short cartridges for orders over a tenner. Order four 30ml bottles and you are there. Diamine Registrar's is more expensive for the 30ml size but will count towards your free postage amount.

 

Now, as you may have spotted, in the British Ink Exchange thread I am offering free "Iron Gall Trial" packs for folks who wanted to try Iron Gall but needed to have the Ammonia on hand for the thorough pre/post cleaning regime. I don't have a lot left in this bottle but if a few folks want to see what the fuss is all about I will package TWO 5ml vials of 10% Household Ammonia and one vial of Registrar's Ink.

 

That is ample to allow you to clean the pen beforehand, try a few loads of Registrar's then have the necessary Ammonia to thoroughly clean out the Iron Gall afterwards when you want to swap back to regular dye-based inks.

 

This, of course, assumes you have searched for and understood Pharmacists oft-repeated advice on cleaning a pen before and after using an iron gall ink. I have placed a summary in the British Ink Exchange thread but it is useful if you actually understand WHY the cleaning works as well as it does. It is only simple chemistry and won't hurt you... well, not unless you go sniffing the Ammonia to see if it smells as bad as people say it does. Trust me... it does!

 

By the way, Pharmacist, have you considered writing an "Iron Gall Pen Hygiene Guide" and getting it stickied? It would save quite a lot of repetition.

 

EDIT : daTomoT - use the Search tool in the Ink Reviews forum and you will find plenty of extremely detailed reviews of blue/blacks, both Iron Gall and dye-based.

Edited by DanielCoffey
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Don't forget that Diamine UK do the 30ml bottles for £2.67, with free postage and a box of mixed Intl. Short cartridges for orders over a tenner. Order four 30ml bottles and you are there. Diamine Registrar's is more expensive for the 30ml size but will count towards your free postage amount.

 

Now, as you may have spotted, in the British Ink Exchange thread I am offering free "Iron Gall Trial" packs for folks who wanted to try Iron Gall but needed to have the Ammonia on hand for the thorough pre/post cleaning regime. I don't have a lot left in this bottle but if a few folks want to see what the fuss is all about I will package TWO 5ml vials of 10% Household Ammonia and one vial of Registrar's Ink.

 

That is ample to allow you to clean the pen beforehand, try a few loads of Registrar's then have the necessary Ammonia to thoroughly clean out the Iron Gall afterwards when you want to swap back to regular dye-based inks.

 

This, of course, assumes you have searched for and understood Pharmacists oft-repeated advice on cleaning a pen before and after using an iron gall ink. I have placed a summary in the British Ink Exchange thread but it is useful if you actually understand WHY the cleaning works as well as it does. It is only simple chemistry and won't hurt you... well, not unless you go sniffing the Ammonia to see if it smells as bad as people say it does. Trust me... it does!

 

By the way, Pharmacist, have you considered writing an "Iron Gall Pen Hygiene Guide" and getting it stickied? It would save quite a lot of repetition.

 

EDIT : daTomoT - use the Search tool in the Ink Reviews forum and you will find plenty of extremely detailed reviews of blue/blacks, both Iron Gall and dye-based.

Not wishing to cast aspersions on your great post but I'm sure I've read on here that weak vinegar solution is supposed to be used for the first post-iron-gall ink use - to remove the iron etc residue. Then thorough rinsing before an ammonia cleaning to remove any residual dye. I think Sandy or Pharmacist pointed this out.

I could be wrong and according to the Oracle I'm married to, frequently am.

 

 

The Good Captain

"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"

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Don't forget that Diamine UK do the 30ml bottles for £2.67, with free postage and a box of mixed Intl. Short cartridges for orders over a tenner. Order four 30ml bottles and you are there. Diamine Registrar's is more expensive for the 30ml size but will count towards your free postage amount.

 

Now, as you may have spotted, in the British Ink Exchange thread I am offering free "Iron Gall Trial" packs for folks who wanted to try Iron Gall but needed to have the Ammonia on hand for the thorough pre/post cleaning regime. I don't have a lot left in this bottle but if a few folks want to see what the fuss is all about I will package TWO 5ml vials of 10% Household Ammonia and one vial of Registrar's Ink.

 

That is ample to allow you to clean the pen beforehand, try a few loads of Registrar's then have the necessary Ammonia to thoroughly clean out the Iron Gall afterwards when you want to swap back to regular dye-based inks.

 

This, of course, assumes you have searched for and understood Pharmacists oft-repeated advice on cleaning a pen before and after using an iron gall ink. I have placed a summary in the British Ink Exchange thread but it is useful if you actually understand WHY the cleaning works as well as it does. It is only simple chemistry and won't hurt you... well, not unless you go sniffing the Ammonia to see if it smells as bad as people say it does. Trust me... it does!

 

By the way, Pharmacist, have you considered writing an "Iron Gall Pen Hygiene Guide" and getting it stickied? It would save quite a lot of repetition.

 

EDIT : daTomoT - use the Search tool in the Ink Reviews forum and you will find plenty of extremely detailed reviews of blue/blacks, both Iron Gall and dye-based.

 

Daniel, you sent me four ink samples when I ask for one. I will ask no more of you until I can send you some samples of my own, fair's fair! I currently only have one bottle though. :l

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Now with Increasing Fountain Pen Related Posts!

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TheGoodCaptain - yes, that was what I wrote in the Ink Exchange thread about the post-IG cleaning... obviously a rinse with water first, but vinegar before the ammonia. That way you dissolve the iron then dissolve the dye.

 

Water/Ammonia/Water before switching to IG. Then use the pen as much as you want with the IG (but don't let it dry out). Then water/vinegar/water/ammonia/water when you are done with IG.

 

Iron Gall inks need to be used. If a person only writes occasionally, it would be better to get a nice blue/black or dark blue dye-based ink. If they are a regular, or even prolific writer, then IGs are certainly something they can try.

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Here's a quick and dirty comparison of four blue-blacks I happen to have handy:

 

I had to do a little color correction in Gimp because my scanner tinges everything blue, but I think they're pretty close to what you see in real life. You may want to click to expand the picture to get a better look at the teal-leaning colors and shading especially.

 

post-47918-0-72643000-1351799974.jpg

 

The way I see them compare is this:

 

Noodler's Blue-Black: a cross between a full teal and black, very saturated, not a lot of shading but it's there, and what's not absolutely black is absolutely teal.

 

Diamine Blue-Black: also a cross between teal and black, but much less black than the Noodler's and good shading. (I bought a bottle of this; I think it's gorgeous.)

 

Sheaffer Blue-Black: a true blue-black (not quite as navy as the Diamine Denim; more like Diamine Prussian Blue) but far and away the best shader of the bunch. I think it would benefit from a few drops of black, but that's just me. (I bought a bottle of this too; it comes closest to that vintage ink I described above...)

 

Diamine Denim: a perfect navy, moderate shading, probably a good choice to mix with a black to see what comes of it, but from the looks of it you'd get even less shading by adding a black, unless you followed with dilution...

 

Sorry for the crappy scan, but with manual color correction I think it comes close. Hope this helps!

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...

 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

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P.S. The lines and notes at the bottom are MB Jonathan Swift Seaweed Green in a Sailor with H-M nib...

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...

 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

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Thanks for your input, everybody!

Please check out my blog, datbookreviews, for all Fiction and Fantasy book reviews!

Now with Increasing Fountain Pen Related Posts!

Pelikan M200, Hero 608, Parker IM, Serwex 162, Manuscript Calligraphy Pen, Lamy Vista, Guanleming 956, Mabie Todd 200/60, Noodler's Konrad. Grail Pen: Yard-O-Led Viceroy Victorian.

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