Why German Penmakers Don't Use Celluloid?

[Florida Blue]

There may be a little confusion in terms here... cellulose nitrate was NEVER used to produce pens, and be thankful for that; cellulose nitrate is the substance widely known as guncotton. Cellulose nitrate was processed with camphor to produce celluloid, also known as Parkesine, pyroxylin, Ivorine and French Ivory, the material used in pens and many other items. The production is very nasty and dangerous as you can imagine, which is why it is no longer produced in many countries due to strict ecological controls.

Cellulose acetate is a separate thermoplastic substance which is an acetate ester made directly from raw cellulose. It's production is not near as nasty or dangerous and it is used mostly in fiber form but may be found in eyeglass frames and other items as well. It also does not have the decomposition or flammability issues that Celluloid has.

 

Most of the quality fountain pens made in the 1920s and 1930s and even into the 40s were made from cellulose nitrate. The Sheaffer Balance, later Parker Duofolds and Parker Vacumatics to name a few were made from cellulose nitrate.

 

He is a little history of that material for use in fountain pens from Richard Binder:

 

Celluloid - (also celluloid; sometimes incorrectly referred to as pyroxylin) Trademarked name (Hyatt Bros., Newark, New Jersey, 1868; subsequently the Celluloid Corporation) for a material of which pens are made, produced by plasticizing cellulose nitrate (guncotton) with camphor. Beginning in about 1920, celluloid became the primary material for caps and barrels, under names such as Sheaffer’s “Radite” and Parker’s “Permanite.” More durable than hard rubber but less durable than many modern plastics, celluloid was supplanted in the 1940s by acrylics, injection-moldable cellulosics, and polystyrenes, but some modern manufacturers still produce pen models of celluloid. ¶ Celluloid has a charming warm feel in the hand and can be manufactured in many exciting solid and mixed colors, but it is relatively unstable and has a tendency to discolor over time. It is also extremely flammable. The manufacturing process for celluloid involves an extended curing period, and celluloid that is improperly cured is prone to crystallize, especially in thicker areas, and eventually crumble.

[paultyler_82]

There may be a little confusion in terms here... cellulose nitrate was NEVER used to produce pens, and be thankful for that; cellulose nitrate is the substance widely known as guncotton. Cellulose nitrate was processed with camphor to produce celluloid, also known as Parkesine, pyroxylin, Ivorine and French Ivory, the material used in pens and many other items. The production is very nasty and dangerous as you can imagine, which is why it is no longer produced in many countries due to strict ecological controls.

Cellulose acetate is a separate thermoplastic substance which is an acetate ester made directly from raw cellulose. It's production is not near as nasty or dangerous and it is used mostly in fiber form but may be found in eyeglass frames and other items as well. It also does not have the decomposition or flammability issues that Celluloid has.

 

Most of the quality fountain pens made in the 1920s and 1930s and even into the 40s were made from cellulose nitrate. The Sheaffer Balance, later Parker Duofolds and Parker Vacumatics to name a few were made from cellulose nitrate.

 

He is a little history of that material for use in fountain pens from Richard Binder:

 

Celluloid - (also celluloid; sometimes incorrectly referred to as pyroxylin) Trademarked name (Hyatt Bros., Newark, New Jersey, 1868; subsequently the Celluloid Corporation) for a material of which pens are made, produced by plasticizing cellulose nitrate (guncotton) with camphor. Beginning in about 1920, celluloid became the primary material for caps and barrels, under names such as Sheaffer’s “Radite” and Parker’s “Permanite.” More durable than hard rubber but less durable than many modern plastics, celluloid was supplanted in the 1940s by acrylics, injection-moldable cellulosics, and polystyrenes, but some modern manufacturers still produce pen models of celluloid. ¶ Celluloid has a charming warm feel in the hand and can be manufactured in many exciting solid and mixed colors, but it is relatively unstable and has a tendency to discolor over time. It is also extremely flammable. The manufacturing process for celluloid involves an extended curing period, and celluloid that is improperly cured is prone to crystallize, especially in thicker areas, and eventually crumble.

 

Yeah, I was trying to point out that pens weren't made from what is commonly called cellulose nitrate: guncotton. Plasticized cellulose nitrate (Celluloid) exhibits slightly different properties.

[Florida Blue]

Yeah, I was trying to point out that pens weren't made from what is commonly called cellulose nitrate: guncotton. Plasticized cellulose nitrate (Celluloid) exhibits slightly different properties.

 

My apologies. I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to get across.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Florida Blue

[paultyler_82]

 

 

My apologies. I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to get across.

 

No worries, the way I worded it was slightly confusing anyway.

Edited October 2, 2012 by paultyler_82

[Gcouch]

Thankfuly they don't make them in celluloid. I like my metal German pens just the way they are :)My guess is the cost

[eric47]

What's so good about celluloid barrel btw?

 

Feel, color, depth, warmth.

 

+1

 

I wondered the same thing until I got my Visconti Van Gogh Maxi. When I'm writing with it, I just don't want to put it down. The feel and warmth are amazing. Not to mention everything else.

 

But that Visconti isn't made of celluloid (celluloise nitrate) by the way. Early Viscontis were made from vintage celluloid that the company found from various sources, some old pen manufacturers. Modern celluloid was later used as well as other plastics and materials on their pens.

Edited October 2, 2012 by eric47

[fabrimedeiros]

What I know is cellulose nitrate is the true celluloid and cellulose acetate (used in Pelikan Souveran) is another substance, a bit more stable, posteriorly invented to replace celluloid in industry.

[Dillo]

While celluloid acetate (called celluloixe by Aurora) was used on the first Optimas, it's not clear that the later Auroloide materia is in fact acetate and not PMMA or some other resin. PMMA doesn't have to be black, it can be colored even with a marbled effect. The recent Nettuno Docets, made by Aurora this year were made of a marbled material, much like Auroloide; the press materials were specific on those pens, the material is PMMA.

 

It wouldn't surprise me that Aurora has changed the mix for the Aurorloide pens. If you compare various Auroloide Optimas over the years, the color tones have changed over the years.

 

Modern black celluloid pens most likely exist by the way. Some of the original Stipula black Etrurias were said to be made of celluloid. Speaking of which Stipula is another company, along with the aforementioned Montegrapps, who make celluloid nitrate pens.

 

I am aware that PMMA can be colored in that fashion. Aurora seems to be fairly particular to note that many of their LE pens like the Luna Aurea Minima, Fuoco Aurea Minima, Sole Aurea Minima, America, Europa, Asia, and Afrika are acrylic resin and not Auroloide. Also, the current Auroloide formulation still smells like celluloid acetate. It does not have the pungent chemical smell of the acrylic material and does not feel the same way that the acrylic material feels in the hand.

 

Dillon

[Kaweco]

I'm wondering why the offering of celluloid pens is mostly restricted to Italian brands, since they all (with the possible exception of Aurora) produce some variety of celluloid pens in their current production runs. How come the big German penmakers like Montblanc and Pelikan don't offer celluloid in their modern ranges, not even the limited editions?

Hello

Celluloid is determined as a "hazardous material" by German law. So the government has strict demands to prevent accidents in production, handling, storage, transport and use of goods made from celluloid. It would be very costly for a fountainpen producer in Germany to fulfill all these demands, even when they think of limited editions. It sounds unbelievable but the profit of the 149 MB is higher than the profit of any other one of the mostly high expensive LEs.

Actually table tennis balls are produced in Germany (@ M.Misc) but this is IIRC the only celluloid product. DHL, which is the German post Post organisation refuses to transport table tennis balls!!

There are a lot of historic German celluloid products in Germany, included black and colored fountain pens, there was no inertia. (@ Jerome Tarshis). Celluloid was produced e.g. by the Rheinische Gummi- und Zelluliod fabrik "Schildkroet" in Mannheim or by the "Beganie" in Muelthal. The works at the turnery had been more difficult compared to the handcraft with galalithe or hard rubber because there must be a steady spray of water at the lathe. Inflammation of dry celluloid shavings could nearly not be extincted! Frequently celluloid production plants burnt down, mostly by explosions during the "baking process" of the crude material.

I hope the answer was ok. In addition I insert an essay about celluloid which I posted some weeks ago at FPN because there are some partially uncorrect postings and deviationes within this thread.

Celluloid is certainly the most beautiful plastic for the manufacture of writing instruments. The substance is a mixture of nitrocellulose and camphor, and was made in 1856 by Alexander Parkes.

Nitrocellulose, or gun cotton, chemically correct, cellulose nitric acid ester is made from cotton or wood fibers which are treated by nitrating acid, a mixture of concentrated nitric acid and concentrated sulfuric acid. If all three of the free -OH groups in the cellulose-subunits had been occupied by nitro groups you will get nitrocellulose with 13% nitrogen, which burns fiercely in the air-blow or an explosion. If only two of the three-OH groups are esterified then collodion formed with about 10% nitrogen which is soluble in ether-alcohol. This substance burns fiercely, but it is less explosive.

Nitrocellulose is not a plastic! When dissolved in organic solvents you will get a glue which can be transformed to fibres. This was the first artificial silk product but it was too dangerous because of exploding clothes.

Camphor is an ingredient of Camphortree, which is native to Southeast Asia. The white powder is obtained by steam distillation from the wood. It is a bicyclic ketone from the terpene series, and smells strongly, reminiscent somewhat of peppermint. The enormous demand for camphor, however, was soon substituted by synthetic products.

How do you get the idea of two such exotic compounds to mix with each other? For the chemists among us, the answer should be easy: In the experimental determination of the molar mass of an unknown substance using the freezing point depression (cryoscopy), the compound was often mixed with camphor, because this substance is the enormously high cryoscopic constant of 40 K / kg mol, which fairly accurate measurements promised. However, in this experiment was formed with the uneven nitrocellulose no fixed melting point, but a very wide melting range. Strictly speaking, the mixture even at room temperature, is an extremely viscous liquid. Only its own surface tension prevents melting away our beautiful writing instruments. Rods and tubes, which are used for the manufacture of fountain pens, leaning a few weeks at an angle to the wall, will produce damaged banana-shaped turnery material which will move only very stubborn back to its original shape.

In 1924 DuPont introduced tube material for the manufacture of writing instruments in an almost infinite variety of colors on the market. The material was light but extremely resistant to breakage. Parker often made commercial events where celluloid pens were thrown down from high towers and afterwards drove over by heavy lorries.

People say celluloid has "haptic" properties. In fact small amounts of camphor evaporate from the surface, notwithstanding even glossy parts have a kind of a microscopic roughness and prevent a slip-down of the fingers from the transpiration moisture.

In the 20th of the last century the new pens were sold like hot cakes and the conservative-minded companies such as Waterman who adopted celluloid only very slowly, were catapulted from place No 1 of national producers.

Very popular was the color "black & pearl", it was used by many companies. White celluloid was ground coarsely and pressed with liquid black material in the interstices. From the block were then cut out square rods, which were rotated around the inside and drilled. The largest part of the material was machined in this manufacturing process. In an alternative manufacturing process from the raw material thin strips or sheets were cut out, which were then glued spirally or concentrically around a steel rod. The patent process indeed saved a consumption of raw material, but it partially lost the transparent depth: one of the most interesting parts of the product.

A rib pattern was caused by the regular layering of different colored celluloid plates, mostly black and colored. If the pre-glued block sawed diagonally in addition to bedding and a 180 degree twist again glued together, then, interesting herringbone patterns could be made. The layers could be glued together with small amounts of acetone, the solvent dissolves thereby to the surface and creates an intimate, very firm connection.

Therefore, broken Celluloid parts could be glued with acetone, but the surfaces of historical repair fillers may be ruined by accidentally expired solvent beyond repair. Other solvents, e.g. Ethyl acetate dissolves cellulose acetate and celluloid. Therefore, glue tube containers should never be carried in pencil case.

A problem is white transparent celluloid. The decomposition is not really detected until today. Possibly it is nitric acid from the crudes, which isn`t washed totally from the nitrocellulose, possibly it is a light induced or photoreaction which damages the bondings between cellulose and the nitric group.

A non flamable replacement product, which is also produced from plants is cellulose acetate. The three free OH groups of cellulose subunits are esterified with acetic anhydride .The thermoplastic material is cheap to produce and soluble in slightly polar solvents. E.g. transparent handles of screwdrivers were made from it. On the material properties forth is cellulose acetate, compared with celluloid, completely different. The statement, cellulose acetate is practically the same as celluloid, only less flammable, of course, is absolutely baseless.

Kind Regards

Thomas

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Thomas, thank you for your very detailed explanation! It is very useful, especially for one like myself who is not very well versed in the chemical differences between the materials.

 

Dillon

[eric47]

Aurora seems to be fairly particular to note that many of their LE pens like the Luna Aurea Minima, Fuoco Aurea Minima, Sole Aurea Minima, America, Europa, Asia, and Afrika are acrylic resin and not Auroloide. Also, the current Auroloide formulation still smells like celluloid acetate. It does not have the pungent chemical smell of the acrylic material and does not feel the same way that the acrylic material feels in the hand.

Actually in their catalog, the marbled LE pens are made of "marbled variegated resin", while the regular edition marbled pens are made of "Auroloide". So says their catalog.

 

I suppose one could read that as chemically different materials. Seems more a bit of marketing as if to indicate some difference between the pens -- and perhaps justify the higher cost of the LE pens over the non-LE pens. With several of the LE pens, they're basically standard "Auroloide" Optimas in a different color with an 18K nib rather than 14K. As far as marketing goes, "Auroloide" strikes me as more impressive than "marbled variegated resin" -- even if "Aurloide" itself can be regarded as marbled variegated resin. For resin is a generic term.

 

But Aurora had already used "Auroloide" on non-LE Optimas that replaced the original shrinking "celluxoide" pens that are regarded as made of celluloid acetate. "Auroloide", "Celluxoide", Aurora doesn't have a problem with fanciful names.

Edited October 3, 2012 by eric47

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

They have used Auroloide on some LE pens as well. I have noticed that for some colors like the marbled materials, they tend to use Auroloide. Once they are moving to pens with more fancy swirls, colors, cracked patterns, and certain colors, they use the resin. Having handled many of those pens in my hands, the Auroloide pens have a very different feel than the resin ones do. I could pick one up and tell you whether it is Auroloide or resin.

 

Dillon

[raging.dragon]

So far as I know celluloid is manufactured in three counties: Italy, Japan and China. These are also the three countries producing most celluloid pens, so perhaps proximity to the manufacturer is a factor. Another is that compared to German manufacturers the Italian companies produce fewer pens and are probably less automated, thus the difficulties of acquiring, storing and working with celluloid may be lesser for the Italian companies.

 

Additionally, celluloid is both traditional and is available in unique colour patterns that have yet to be duplicated in other materials, so cultural differences between Italy and Germany may play a role, for example favouring tradition and style (celluloid) versus practicality (modern plastics). And finally it is possible that there is more demand for celluloid from the buyers of Italian pens than from the buyers of German pens.

Edited October 4, 2012 by raging.dragon

[raging.dragon]

 

Omas is one of the few companies making pens from actual celluloid nitrate. The resulting pens are very nice.

 

Dillon

 

How about Montegrappa?

 

Also Delta, Stipula, and until recently Visconti.

[raging.dragon]

[...]

Modern black celluloid pens most likely exist by the way. Some of the original Stipula black Etrurias were said to be made of celluloid. Speaking of which Stipula is another company, along with the aforementioned Montegrapps, who make celluloid nitrate pens.

 

Here's one example of a modern pen in black celluloid:

 

http://www.pentime.com/delta/chatterley-pensdelta-stantuffo-celluloid-classico-grande-limited-edition-fountain-pen/

[raging.dragon]

There may be a little confusion in terms here... cellulose nitrate was NEVER used to produce pens, and be thankful for that; cellulose nitrate is the substance widely known as guncotton. Cellulose nitrate was processed with camphor to produce celluloid, also known as Parkesine, pyroxylin, Ivorine and French Ivory, the material used in pens and many other items. The production is very nasty and dangerous as you can imagine, which is why it is no longer produced in many countries due to strict ecological controls.

Cellulose acetate is a separate thermoplastic substance which is an acetate ester made directly from raw cellulose. It's production is not near as nasty or dangerous and it is used mostly in fiber form but may be found in eyeglass frames and other items as well. It also does not have the decomposition or flammability issues that Celluloid has.

 

Most of the quality fountain pens made in the 1920s and 1930s and even into the 40s were made from cellulose nitrate. The Sheaffer Balance, later Parker Duofolds and Parker Vacumatics to name a few were made from cellulose nitrate.

 

He is a little history of that material for use in fountain pens from Richard Binder:

 

Celluloid - (also celluloid; sometimes incorrectly referred to as pyroxylin) Trademarked name (Hyatt Bros., Newark, New Jersey, 1868; subsequently the Celluloid Corporation) for a material of which pens are made, produced by plasticizing cellulose nitrate (guncotton) with camphor. Beginning in about 1920, celluloid became the primary material for caps and barrels, under names such as Sheaffer’s “Radite” and Parker’s “Permanite.” More durable than hard rubber but less durable than many modern plastics, celluloid was supplanted in the 1940s by acrylics, injection-moldable cellulosics, and polystyrenes, but some modern manufacturers still produce pen models of celluloid. ¶ Celluloid has a charming warm feel in the hand and can be manufactured in many exciting solid and mixed colors, but it is relatively unstable and has a tendency to discolor over time. It is also extremely flammable. The manufacturing process for celluloid involves an extended curing period, and celluloid that is improperly cured is prone to crystallize, especially in thicker areas, and eventually crumble.

 

Yeah, I was trying to point out that pens weren't made from what is commonly called cellulose nitrate: guncotton. Plasticized cellulose nitrate (Celluloid) exhibits slightly different properties.

 

The camphor in celluloid is a plasticizer, an additive that makes the plastic more flexible and less brittle. The camphor doesn't react with the cellulose nitrate to produce some third material, instead celluloid is a mixture of nitro cellulose and camphor. As Kaweco stated, the cellulose nitrate in celluloid is probably incompletely nitrated, which would make it significantly less flammable than the fully nitrated cellulose nitrate found in gun cotton. This is analogous to the difference between dinitrotoluene (highly flammable) and trinitrotoluene (explosive). Additionally a relatively large peice of matieral like a celluloid pen has much less surface area per unit volume than a thin rods (cordite) or a coarse powder (smokeless gun powder), and this would make it harder to ignite. However, while celluloid may be less flammable than gun cutton, it still burns very vigorously, for example:

 

http://appleman-pens.blogspot.ca/2012/01/celluloid-and-open-flame-not-good-idea.html

 

Celluloid strips or powder created during manufacturing would be much easier to ignite and would pose a significant fire hazard. So, don't smoke while turning celluloid....

 

It should also be noted that in addition to cellulose nitrate and cellulose acetate there are several other cellulose based plastics and it's likely that at one time or another pens have been made from many of them:

 

http://www.gopolymers.com/plastic-types/cellulosic-plastics.html

[Garageboy]

Whoa, learned more about celluloid in this one thread than I have in the past 6 years

I wish Dupont/Bayer would do "reissue" plastics

Fat chance, though

[Kaweco]

Some additional examples of German Celluloid

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/Thomasnr/blueCell.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/Thomasnr/flBhlerFisch.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/Thomasnr/Hellperl2.jpg

Kind Regards

Thomas

[Kaweco]

I'm wondering why the offering of celluloid pens is mostly restricted to Italian brands, since they all (with the possible exception of Aurora) produce some variety of celluloid pens in their current production runs. How come the big German penmakers like Montblanc and Pelikan don't offer celluloid in their modern ranges, not even the limited editions?

 

The German mentality is extremely cautious and profit orientated. Just look at the Meisterstück and Souverän ranges from MB and Pelikan - the pens are basically always the same for decades.

OMG, yes! This is finally the right answer :blink: . Hello "kauloltran", you can close the thread!

[leod]

The German mentality is extremely cautious and profit orientated. Just look at the Meisterstück and Souverän ranges from MB and Pelikan - the pens are basically always the same for decades.

 

All pen companies are profit oriented not just Germans. If the design is working why change it?