Waterman Ajf

[RegDiggins]

Can anyone tell me what the initials AJF stand for on a Waterman pen cap.?

[Xof72000]

Certainly those of it's previous (first) owner !

[RegDiggins]

Certainly those of it's previous (first) owner !

 

Perhaps I should make it clearer for thoses of limited knowledge.

 

On many Waterman pens there is a small "poincon" or hallmark maybe 1 or 2 square mm at most which consists of the 3 letters AJF.

As this is obviously part of a Watermans identification I wondered what the initials stood for.

 

So let's try again, does anyone know ????

 

Reg Diggins

[Ernst Bitterman]

Hm. I've got only one pen with a teeny square marking of that sort. Mine has either GAP or CAP in it, and since I couldn't decide what the first letter was (it's a problem with the serif, not the magnification), I hesitated to ask. But now that the question is abroad... I wonder what they mean, too. :hmm1:

 

Mine appears on a Ligne 60-- what sort of models or time frame do your AJFs come from?

[Procyon]

 

Perhaps I should make it clearer for thoses of limited knowledge.

 

Reg Diggins

 

 

Give us a break! Waterman has been making pens for well over 100 years. You didn't narrow this time period down at all, and expect everyone to know what you are talking about?

 

Many of us do not give two figs for modern pens, and have little interest in them. Xof72000 is probably a vintage pen guy - like me. Owners initials would be the only answer for those. Which is why I figured you were talking about modern Waterman's - which I have no interest in. I expect your knowledge of vintage Waterman's is extremely limited - so you might not want to ride in on your high horse on this forum.

[Left FPN]

Certainly those of it's previous (first) owner !

 

Perhaps I should make it clearer for thoses of limited knowledge.

 

On many Waterman pens there is a small "poincon" or hallmark maybe 1 or 2 square mm at most which consists of the 3 letters AJF.

As this is obviously part of a Watermans identification I wondered what the initials stood for.

 

So let's try again, does anyone know ????

 

Reg Diggins

 

From one of very little knowledge when there is very little to go on, so maybe it's Alfred John Fenton of Fenton Brothers, silversmiths and platers circa 1890'ish. Although primarily a silversmith maybe one day he tried gold. My limited knowledge is aided by GOOGLE you see.

 

PS, I had to Google poincon as well :embarrassed_smile: me as a simpleton would have used Hallmark...I do envy knowledgeable folk.

 

and as for the comment by another, I did not realise poincons,there I go already, were not around before 1970. Well you learn something new every day...

Edited September 19, 2012 by Force

[faustulus]

Your snarkiness aside, I think the abbreviation, if that is what it is, is related to the metal plating on objects (it is found on other items besides pens). I suspect it is European in origin.

[Xof72000]

 

Perhaps I should make it clearer for thoses of limited knowledge.

 

Reg Diggins

 

 

Give us a break! Waterman has been making pens for well over 100 years. You didn't narrow this time period down at all, and expect everyone to know what you are talking about?

 

Many of us do not give two figs for modern pens, and have little interest in them. Xof72000 is probably a vintage pen guy - like me. Owners initials would be the only answer for those. Which is why I figured you were talking about modern Waterman's - which I have no interest in. I expect your knowledge of vintage Waterman's is extremely limited - so you might not want to ride in on your high horse on this forum.

 

 

 

From one of very little knowledge when there is very little to go on, so maybe it's Alfred John Fenton of Fenton Brothers, silversmiths and platers circa 1890'ish. Although primarily a silversmith maybe one day he tried gold. My limited knowledge is aided by GOOGLE you see.

 

PS, I had to Google poincon as well :embarrassed_smile: me as a simpleton would have used Hallmark...I do envy knowledgeable folk.

 

and as for the comment by another, I did not realise poincons,there I go already, were not around before 1970. Well you learn something new every day...

 

 

Thanks guys !

Nice answers.

[RegDiggins]

Your snarkiness aside, I think the abbreviation, if that is what it is, is related to the metal plating on objects (it is found on other items besides pens). I suspect it is European in origin.

 

I am sorry if I offended anyone but I was not being sarcastic but realised it was unfair to expect everyone to know what I was talking about.

I too think it is something to do with the plating so all I was asking was what do the letters stand for.

 

I have found one or two references to these marks on Google one on a C/F (?50S) and the other on a Waterman which the owner refers to as a gift from the 80s.

 

I did not know it appeared on other plated items, or for that matter on other plated pens.So far I have only found on Watermans and only post war production.

 

By the way,My example is on a gold plated cap and is the only mark on it. The examples I found on google were in Italy and had plaque or G as well and in one case

had the initials on the nib also. A

J F

A

So any more ideas ? If not on AJF how about Ernst's CAP or GAP or perhaps C P

 

Reg Diggins

[Ernst Bitterman]

Oh, it's definitely three letters; it's just the identity of the first one that's up in the air. It's quite different and a LOT smaller than the little lozenge I've seen on 1980s gold points, which contains

 

WAT

(rather stylized arrow, pointing left)

S-A

 

which at least makes a little sense (although that last pair mystifies, although probably because I don't speak French).

 

Messing around with some of the terms above in Google brought me to a confusion of silversmiths' marks, but nothing plainly on point here. I rather doubt that it's meant to indicate to a bug what part of the pen it's landed on, but that irresistably suggests itself to me....

Edited September 19, 2012 by Ernst Bitterman

[RegDiggins]

What I was trying to show was the layout of the letters.

 

The mark in the square on my cap has a very big capital A which fills the top half of the square. In the bottom half are two further capital letters J F but in a smaller font so they fill the bottom half side by side.

 

The Italian ones on google refer also to AJF on the cap but one of them mentions letters on the nib as being J A F .

 

I wonder if the extra space on the nib means the letters can be spread out with the A still above the others but now they can be read from left to right as

A

J F

 

The S.A. stands for Societe Anonyme the French equivalent of PLC or Public Limited Company which is used in England.

 

Reg Diggins

[Left FPN]

and Ernst I think the arrow (line) is in fact a pen. Under magnification the line is broken in 2 places forming what appears to be a cap and nib.

 

Sorry about the poor pictures, my coolpix has not been the same since having it repaired by the experts, but you can see what I mean,

 

 

 

better, pre repair, picture

 

Edited September 20, 2012 by Force

[Ernst Bitterman]

The S.A. stands for Societe Anonyme the French equivalent of PLC or Public Limited Company which is used in England.

 

Ah, yes. This was in my head, I'd just lost the key to that particular locker. It sounds properly sinister in French, doesn't it?

 

Sorry about the poor pictures, my coolpix has not been the same since having it repaired by the experts, but you can see what I mean,

 

Absolutely, and I quite agree. The definition on the point impressions I've got are much less clear than than.

[Left FPN]

It suddenly clicked,

 

Waterman

Pen

Company

 

:clap1:

Edited September 20, 2012 by Force

[RMN]

Could that actually JiF? as I remember the old name used to be Waterman jif, where I think the jif was written JiF. Or do I confuse this with a british lemonjuice brand??

 

 

D.ick

[CRB]

The French Waterman distributor, Jules Isidore Fagard, named his company 'Jif-Waterman' in 1926. It bore that name until 1971, when the name was changed to Waterman SA. This information can be found in Andreas Lambrou's book, 'Fountain Pens of the World'.

 

As to the pen in the OP, a picture of the mark, showing where it is placed, could help determine whether it's a maker's mark, a statement of the item's material or an owner's personalization. A picture of the entire pen may also help to identify what time period it comes from.

[Left FPN]

a picture of the mark, showing where it is placed, could help determine whether it's a maker's mark, a statement of the item's material or an owner's personalization. A picture of the entire pen may also help to identify what time period it comes from.

 

seconded :clap1:

[Left FPN]

I suggest nobody click the above links.

 

Admin has now removed them.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Force