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Chinese Pen For Almost $700?!?!?!


humsin

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In that I'm a 10 minute drive from Lamy...it is still in Germany, as is Pelikan (I'll have go to some shop to look to see if the Pelikano is made in Germany still.) I imagine so, in the Germans are still picky about that sort of stuff. And would buy Lamy instead....MB makes pens in China????

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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From what I know, chinese craftmanship has quite a reputation when it comes to fine arts.

 

True.

 

Having seen Chinese art up close, I can attest to the quality of craftsmanship. I suspect much of the current reputation stereotype of China's products being poor quality has more to do with Western companies trying to cut costs and dictating a price line at which something has to be manufactured.

 

I do not know what the actual quality of that particular pen is, or the craftsmanship that went into its making. But this is the same country that gave us Ming vases, a pretty exquisite calligraphy design sense and currently turns out some pretty fantastic art using media such as oil paints that are not native to the region.

 

Cheers, DJ

 

The beautiful Chinese art that you saw is the fruit of thousands of years of refinement. That was destroyed by the cultural revolution. What you have now is the product of Communist mass industrial production.

 

Agreed.

 

 

John

My observations don't agree with that at all. The examples I have of pens (and for that matter, cameras) manufactured under the old communist industrial organization are often superior in quality to modern production. I have read that the same is true for mechanical watches. Manufacturing in China today is developing along a Western model, focusing on productivity for export, rather than quality for internal consumption. Thank Walmart for that, not the communists.

But this is really a side discussion. The point that needs to be made is that it is inaccurate to generalize about an entire country's capabilities based on a sample from any number of specific factories. If it were a good generalization, I, having owned a Platignum or two, would never touch a Yard-o-Led or Conway Stewart. A vintage collector who had consistent bad experience with Wearevers and third-tier pens (and it is certainly possible to have bad experiences with them, especially if you don't restore them well) would never even consider a Parker of Sheaffer.

ron

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From what I know, chinese craftmanship has quite a reputation when it comes to fine arts.

 

True.

 

Having seen Chinese art up close, I can attest to the quality of craftsmanship. I suspect much of the current reputation stereotype of China's products being poor quality has more to do with Western companies trying to cut costs and dictating a price line at which something has to be manufactured.

 

I do not know what the actual quality of that particular pen is, or the craftsmanship that went into its making. But this is the same country that gave us Ming vases, a pretty exquisite calligraphy design sense and currently turns out some pretty fantastic art using media such as oil paints that are not native to the region.

 

Cheers, DJ

 

The beautiful Chinese art that you saw is the fruit of thousands of years of refinement. That was destroyed by the cultural revolution. What you have now is the product of Communist mass industrial production.

 

Agreed.

 

 

John

My observations don't agree with that at all. The examples I have of pens (and for that matter, cameras) manufactured under the old communist industrial organization are often superior in quality to modern production. I have read that the same is true for mechanical watches. Manufacturing in China today is developing along a Western model, focusing on productivity for export, rather than quality for internal consumption. Thank Walmart for that, not the communists.

But this is really a side discussion. The point that needs to be made is that it is inaccurate to generalize about an entire country's capabilities based on a sample from any number of specific factories. If it were a good generalization, I, having owned a Platignum or two, would never touch a Yard-o-Led or Conway Stewart. A vintage collector who had consistent bad experience with Wearevers and third-tier pens (and it is certainly possible to have bad experiences with them, especially if you don't restore them well) would never even consider a Parker of Sheaffer.

ron

 

There's a little truth to both sides of the argument. True, much time tested craftsmanship and skills were lost to the Cultural Revolution, however new skills, craftsmanship, and techniques were learned through Sino-Soviet cooperation, refined after their split and refined further as China continues to westernize their industrial processes and consumer base. Not everything 'Communist Industry' produced was absolute (bleep). AK rifles, ЛОМО́ cameras... You cannot generalize quality based on what a country used to produce, if that was the case, no one would be buying ASUS computers and components, D-Link network equipment, G.Skill RAM, and HTC smartphones today because of all the cheap goods that used to have gold 'Made in Taiwan' stickers on the bottom.

<em class='bbc'>I started nowhere, ended up back there. I caught a fever and it burned up my blood. It was a pity, I left the city; I did me some travelin' but it's done me no good.</em> - Buffalo Clover "The Ruse"

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When it comes to the more expensive items it's the 'nouveau riche' bling-bling style I don't like. Unfortunately 'effortless elegance' is a concept that hasn't yet percolated far into modern culture anywhere in the world, and modern China seems to be suffering from its lack as much as anywhere else.

 

I have absolutely no concerns about Chinese companies QA abilities when they are subject to rigorous control, they can be up there with the best, just need to have a reason to do so.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

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look here!

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item25724dcac7

 

Chinese factories also try to enter the market of luxury pens......

 

That BTW is not the most expensive model by Duke. They have a brand called "King Crown" and well, most prices start at USD$1,000 and over. Duke is one of the major companies in China in which they produce "gifts" for visiting dignitaries like a meeting between 2 countries leaders. But their quality is very good and packaging much better than most other brands. In the up market departmental stores in China, you are able to look at their "King Crown" series and most places don't even carry it.

From The Sunny Island of Singapore

 

Straits Pen Distributors and Dealers of Craft Rinkul, JB Perfect Pen Flush, Ohto Japan, Parker, Pelikan, Pilot Pen, Private Reserve Inks, Schrade Tactical Pens, Smith & Wesson Pens, Noodler's Ink LLC Pens, TWSBI Inc and Waterman in Singapore

Disclosure: I do nib work for others and am affiliated with those which do. I also sell and represent certain brands of pens.

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If Chinese products are examples of excellent quality, why do people get turned off by the "Made in China" label?

 

btw, Taiwan's pretty different from China; having avoided the Cultural Revolution, "Made in Taiwan" is decent mark of quality

The pen I write with, is the pen I use to sign my name.

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If Chinese products are examples of excellent quality, why do people get turned off by the "Made in China" label?

 

My best guess: latent xenophobia.

 

Every country has companies producing substandard products as well as companies producing exceedingly excellent products.

 

With all the nationalistic propaganda swirling around 24/7, some of it is bound to invade our psyche. Thus we tend to make broad generalizations that are only half-truths at best and complete falsehoods as worst.

Edited by dizzypen

Equal Opportunity Ink and Fountain Pen User.

 

My blog: The Dizzy Pen

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If Chinese products are examples of excellent quality, why do people get turned off by the "Made in China" label?

 

My best guess: latent xenophobia.

 

Every country has companies producing substandard products as well as companies producing exceedingly excellent products.

 

With all the nationalistic propaganda swirling around 24/7, some of it is bound to invade our psyche. Thus we tend to make broad generalizations that are only half-truths at best and complete falsehoods as worst.

 

latent=blatant

Please visit my wife's website.

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I don't mean to get preachy.... but I think a point needs to made at this juncture. We are an international forum and even though we may not all agree politically, we have a common ground with fountain pens. There are countries that systematically block any webpages that speak poorly of their government. I think we are going down a very slippery slope here. For better or for worse, the Beijing Olympics proved that China is still a very proud nation and that they want to have a positive international image. Generalizations are nothing more than ignorant misconceptions based on a lack of experience. Logically it is called an association fallacy to assume that from some observations a universal rule can be made (∃xS : φ(x)) → (∀xS : φ(x)). I have yet to hear from someone chime in that HAS one of these expensive pens to tell us whether or not it is cheap etc. Even IF someone could review this individual pen as being cheaply made and not worth the money, it would still only apply to this pen... not a brand, and most certainly not an entire nation. We do the same with every other pen/manufacturer/etc. The quality of a Pilot Varsity has very little to do with the quality of a Vanishing Point or one of their Yukari pens.

 

My point is... we can recommend specific brands and specific Sellers.... we can critic specific pens for what is good and bad about them.... but can we please stop this.

 

Again, I may not politically agree with a lot of countries policies... but this is about fountain pens. Give a little respect to a region that still uses a significant number of fountain pens; and can we keep the politics, biases, and generalizations out of Fountain Pen Network.

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Made in Taiwan wasn't ALWAYS a mark of quality, I seem to remember back in the 80's, most of the cheap plastic givaways and arcade prizes generally had that sticker on them. It's the same with Made in Japan, there was a time when Japanese automobiles rusted out faster than a mild steel bucket in a pasture during the rainy season. Infrastructures and quality control procedures do change... China is just a bit more variable in this. Some products geared for the new consumer market and high end export are quite nice... some arent. I like to tinker with electronics and it's a given that you stay away from components from China that are no-brand or Chinese brand and only go for those that are manufactured for a quality company. Cars... I know China has been trying to break into the US market for a while, and while I wouldn't buy one, I would drive an Emgrand or some Great Wall vehicles but wouldn't be caught dead (probably literally) in a Chery or Geely.

<em class='bbc'>I started nowhere, ended up back there. I caught a fever and it burned up my blood. It was a pity, I left the city; I did me some travelin' but it's done me no good.</em> - Buffalo Clover "The Ruse"

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I have yet to hear from someone chime in that HAS one of these expensive pens to tell us whether or not it is cheap etc.

 

post-2832-0-88476600-1347404023.jpgpost-2832-0-84952000-1347404044.jpg

 

 

I at one time had 4 of the "Duke Operas" and 2 of "Two Dragons Playing Pearl".

These are the original offerings, not the cheap copies and knockoffs that are out there now.

I have seen the "Two Dragons Playing Pearl" recently however.

After the tornado (6 years ago) these are the only ones that could be found.

They were both in the mud and filth for over a week.

 

After a good soak and cleaning they looked as good as ever.

Both pens are extremely well made.

 

The "Opera" does have some scratches on the gold part of the barrel, but the cloisonne is untouched.

The converter is marked Duke Germany and the nib is 14K.

 

The other pen has no marks from the tornado at all.

It has an 18K nib.

The converter is also marked Duke Germany.

 

Neither pen has ever given me any trouble at all.

Instant start and very very smooth nibs.

I would have no hesitation in recommending either of these pens to anyone.

Please visit my wife's website.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_763_-2kMPOs/Sh8W3BRtwoI/AAAAAAAAARQ/WbGJ-Luhxb0/2009StoreLogoETSY.jpg

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I have yet to hear from someone chime in that HAS one of these expensive pens to tell us whether or not it is cheap etc.

 

post-2832-0-88476600-1347404023.jpg

 

 

I at one time had 4 of the "Duke Operas"

 

 

The opera is a beautiful pen... I love the gold on blue. I have never been completely sure about the mask/face looking thing... but beautiful all the same.

Edited by sirach
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My main point is, does "Made in Germany/England/Japan/France/USA" make a pen worth the high price tag? Can a "Made in China" pen be worth this price tag? For example, if a Chinese brand made a black cigar-shaped pen with gold trim and a 18k gold nib, would anyone choose this pen over a 149 or KOP?

The pen I write with, is the pen I use to sign my name.

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From what I know, chinese craftmanship has quite a reputation when it comes to fine arts.

 

True.

 

Having seen Chinese art up close, I can attest to the quality of craftsmanship. I suspect much of the current reputation stereotype of China's products being poor quality has more to do with Western companies trying to cut costs and dictating a price line at which something has to be manufactured.

 

I do not know what the actual quality of that particular pen is, or the craftsmanship that went into its making. But this is the same country that gave us Ming vases, a pretty exquisite calligraphy design sense and currently turns out some pretty fantastic art using media such as oil paints that are not native to the region.

 

Cheers, DJ

 

The beautiful Chinese art that you saw is the fruit of thousands of years of refinement. That was destroyed by the cultural revolution. What you have now is the product of Communist mass industrial production.

 

This is untrue. There is absolutely remarkable contemporary art being made in China by artists in every medium. Serious Chinese contemporary art is highly coveted, not just in China, but by museums and collectors around the world. Sadly, we only get to see a fraction of this work in the West.

 

This is an amazing exhibit from eight years ago. More recently, the Tate Modern hosted this popular installation.

Edited by Laura N
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If Chinese products are examples of excellent quality, why do people get turned off by the "Made in China" label?

If people really get turned off by the Made in China label as you claimed, why are iPads and iPhones so popular, all of which are made in China. What isn't made in China nowadays? You get what you pay for, as simple as that. If you buy cheap goods, no matter where they're made, you're gonna get (bleep), not gold or diamonds . Nevertheless, cheap Chinese pens are far better products than the lower ends German and Italian made pens that are priced 30 times as much. If you compare a Kaigelu to an Aurora Ipsilon or a Lamy, you'll see the obvious.

Edited by kauloltran
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Quite frankly, if Lamy produces a $600 pen, I don't think anybody would buy it. Why? Because the name Lamy seems to have a low-end stigma attached to it.

Edited by kauloltran
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If Chinese products are examples of excellent quality, why do people get turned off by the "Made in China" label?

If people really get turned off by the Made in China label as you claimed, why are iPads and iPhones so popular, all of which are made in China. What isn't made in China nowadays? You get what you pay for, as simple as that. If you buy cheap goods, no matter where they're made, you're gonna get (bleep), not gold or diamonds . Nevertheless, cheap Chinese pens are far better products than the lower ends German and Italian made pens that are priced 30 times as much. If you compare a Kaigelu to an Aurora Ipsilon or a Lamy, you'll see the obvious.

 

 

People are turned off by that label for reasons other then just lack of quality.

 

I've purchased items at my local Chinese outlet store (aka Walmart) for $25 and up that I don't think were that cheap in price compared to other products of the same kind but also weren't of particularly high quality.

 

Kaigelus are a good example of a Chinese product where price is not an indication of lack of quality, but do you really think they are better then Aurora Ipsilons? And did you have any specific Kaigelu in mind?

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

 

~ George Orwell

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My main point is, does "Made in Germany/England/Japan/France/USA" make a pen worth the high price tag? Can a "Made in China" pen be worth this price tag? For example, if a Chinese brand made a black cigar-shaped pen with gold trim and a 18k gold nib, would anyone choose this pen over a 149 or KOP?

 

I think the price tag on the MB or the KOP is more brand-related than country related; as other posters have noted, there are companies in Japan and Germany with products that have prices that cover a wide range. If this hypothetical Chinese brand had good marketing and found the right importers in other markets, it's entirely possible that someone would choose it over the Montblanc or the Sailor.

Currently using:Too many pens inked to list, I must cut back! :) I can guarantee there are flighters, urushi, and/or Sheaffer Vac-fillers in the mix!!!

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I posted some thoughts about this topic before (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/88363-hero-300a/page__view__findpost__p__862412). Take a look also at some of the links in the next post down. There's a clear increase in quality from a $1 hero to a $10 hero to a $50 hero, and I don't see what (aside from blind prejudice) would convince someone that the quality would not continue to increase up the product line. If you haven't used a $500 or $1000 hero you simply should not make assertions about the quality of such a product. (I also haven't seen such pens in person, though I'd really like to do so--they just aren't sold in western markets.)

 

As far as the quality issue goes: chinese companies are no less capable of producing quality products than companies in any other country. They are also just as capable of producing the level of quality demanded by a contract. If you are unhappy with the quality of Chinese-made goods available at your local wal-mart, the company you should be holding responsible is the one whose name is on the label or the one whose name is on the door. I do not buy products from formerly-great western companies that exist today simply to mark up stuff outsourced to other countries. I would much rather buy something made with pride by the company whose name is on the label, regardless of where that company is located. (E.g., I would rather buy something from Samsung or LG than any modern product from Parker or Sheaffer.) Unless your "made in China" piece of junk was sold under a Chinese company's brand, your real issue is with lousy domestic management cutting corners to make their quarterly numbers, not with China. I really wish more people would hold the real culprits accountable instead of continuing to buy the junk while complaining about it.

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