Lamy 2000M Pre-Order Anyone?

[82Greg]

...But don't worry... The heroic Chinese people will copy the SS 2000 for about 50 dollar. We will raise up to fight this evil :P

 

But wait there's more....

 

The Chinese version will be made by prisoners, made of a stainless steel-like material, use a cartridge converter, and probably contain significant led contamination.

 

Bottom Line still holds true, you get what you pay for.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I believe the Studio is extruded too. Different construction. Most steel pens are extruded stainless steel.

 

Dillon

[tempo]

...But don't worry... The heroic Chinese people will copy the SS 2000 for about 50 dollar. We will raise up to fight this evil :P

 

But wait there's more....

 

The Chinese version will be made by prisoners, made of a stainless steel-like material, use a cartridge converter, and probably contain significant led contamination.

 

Bottom Line still holds true, you get what you pay for.

 

 

 

In some way it is true. (e.g. It was on TV once that a cheap stuffed toy in Ch**a was made of a mixture that includes USED feminine products.... scared yet? )

 

[The issue is a bit complicated, there are individuals who owns some land and some work space and have idle hands in the village and just simply decide to make some products to pass the time, without any reason.... ]

 

{My own uncle once wanted to make fake laundry detergents :roflmho: :roflmho: He didn't in the end, fearing of getting arrested.}

 

 

 

But seriously, I will strongly disagree "You get what you pay for."

 

 

You just don't.

 

 

Some people charge 80+ dollar per hour and is completely no good. Even they have full walls of certificates.

 

And the retail businesses, the shops in T*****o, Ca**da, is just all horrible. One refuse to tell me the price unless I agree to buy. One goes farther and refuse to show me anything unless I agree to buy.

 

One ask 17400 when the listed price is 14200, I ask them why and they very rudely reply they can do whatever they want in their shop.

 

Some shop will gladly sell you something for 3000, that worth only 0(unplayable musical instrument.)

 

And they will do that, even their shop is right next to the RCM(Royal Con*****tory of Music).

 

BTW, they also sell knock off as the real thing even the labels and logos are all different... and they display the product wrong way around. They don't even know which way is face up for God sake....

 

Can you even imagine??? Same Ch**a quality for 100+ times the price right here in T*****o.

 

 

So, No, you don't always get what you pay for. Yes, I am very angry about certain city, both as a lover, learner, teacher, investor of music and art.

 

 

-----

 

***** off some names.... because last time a post was closed for suspicion of defamation.

[Ytland]

Perhaps I should clarify:

The Lamy 2000 is a 'form follows function' pen because the entire design is bent towards the one thing a pen is expected to do well: write. The balance, weight and shape were all perfectly designed for the serious writer, and my personal experience says that five consecutive hours of scrawling with this thing won't fatigue you in the same way as some other pens do after only ten minutes.

 

The 2000M is all about bling. It's heavy, shiny and essentially made to look good and attract stares. 'Form follows appearance'.

 

Rationale:

If I would be looking for a writer, this wouldn't be it. The L2K was designed to be a writer. Hence reversal of the design ethic.

 

As for the overinflated price, it may be that the SS overlay is worth as much as an entire normal L2K pen (it is only a shell over a plastic mechanism). I, for one, will remain skeptical in that regard.

 

EDIT:

 

 

...and the complete reversal of the proprietary minimalist and inconspicuous design ethic. This is an extension of the blingy look Lamy has started to shift towards ever since it came out with the eye-searingly shiny Studio Pt (Platinum coat)...

Lamy says they design each pen using the Bauhaus principle of form follows function. I don't see anywhere where the new SS version deviates from that. It's just as minimalistic as the Makrolon 2000. Looking at some of the other functional techniques of the Bauhaus principle:

• Simpicity
• Symmetry
• Angularity
• Abstraction
• Consistency
• Unity
• Organization
• Economy
• Subtlety
• Continuity
• Regularity
• Sharpness
• Monochomaticity

 

Perhaps this list is worth scrutinising.

 

-Simp[l]icity and symmetry are definitely Bauhaus trademarks

-Angularity is not. Most higher tier (read: designed) Lamy pens have smooth, clean and fluid lines. I assume you're referring to the sharp corners on the clip...?

-Abstraction. That's... abstract

-Consistency. Well, machining is computer controlled these days, so I suppose all the pens Lamy makes would be rather consistently proportioned.

-Unity. Organisation. I don't know much about the factory culture. Or the pens' personalities. My makrolon L2K has several.

-Economy. Definitely not. This thing costs almost as much as a Pelikan m800.

-Subtlety. The makrolon is. The SS is only subtle to the blind.

-Continuity. In its angularity?

-Regularity. The pen used to be exemplary. Now it's just like any other blingy pen, so yes. Regular.

-Sharpness. Clip.

-Monochromaticity. It depends what the pen is reflecting at the time.

 

End vent. No offense intended Dan, I love your vids/reviews. Most of your list could be legitimately applied to most of Lamy's pen lineup. I'm more stunned at the company, that seems to lean more and more towards the upper-market mentality that so many others have already moved over to...

 

Jack.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Ytland

[bphollin]

The 2000M is all about bling. It's heavy, shiny and essentially made to look good and attract stares. 'Form follows appearance'.

 

Rationale:

If I would be looking for a writer, this wouldn't be it. The L2K was designed to be a writer. Hence reversal of the design ethic.

 

I beg to differ, Jack. Everything I love about the Lamy 2000 is in the Lamy Edition 2000 and Lamy 2000 stainless steel 2012: same nib, same feed, same ink capacity, same piston mechanism. I say this as an owner of all three pens. True, I have only owned the 2012 since Monday, but I have been writing with it almost nonstop for work (cycled through 2 pistons of ink already). It is a delight, just like the 2000 Edition and standard model.

 

I am curious why you say this is not what you'd be looking for in a writer. Do you not consider the standard edition to be a writer?

 

I am also working on a fairly lengthy review of the Lamy 2000 family. I would love to address the issue of "bling" but I can't quite get my head around what makes a matte stainless steel pen "blingy". Is a Parker "51" flighter also blingy? Is it blingy by virtue of the high price? Would it not be blingy if it cost less? I ask this in sincerity--I promise I'm not trolling.

Edited August 3, 2012 by bphollin

[RNHC]

How heavy is the new Lamy 2000 stainless steel?

[bphollin]

Weights are for empty pens. Measured on a food scale, so weights are approximate.

• 
   
  
• Lamy 2000: ~16g
  
• Lamy 2000 Millennium Edition: ~44g
  
• Lamy 2000 stainless steel 2012: ~54g
  

[chainwhip]

This gives me hope that Pelikan will re-relase the M800 in Tortoise. =]b

 

I'll probably end up getting one of the 2012 Stainless FP's to round out my Lamy 2000 collection.

[Ytland]

I am curious why you say this is not what you'd be looking for in a writer. Do you not consider the standard edition to be a writer?

 

 

Well, perhaps it's my own biases that are leaking in to the discussion here, but I usually prefer light-ish pens for daily workhorses, which is what the regular edition offers. I've used an Ed 2000 and it was just way too heavy for anything other than a showpiece in my eyes. But I'm willing to accept that others may have more muscles in their hands than I do

 

 

I am also working on a fairly lengthy review of the Lamy 2000 family. I would love to address the issue of "bling" but I can't quite get my head around what makes a matte stainless steel pen "blingy". Is a Parker "51" flighter also blingy? Is it blingy by virtue of the high price? Would it not be blingy if it cost less? I ask this in sincerity--I promise I'm not trolling.

 

I'm *very* much looking forward to you putting this up. I'm hoping that I might be able to blend in with the rest of the flock and have some kind of desire for the SS 2000 if only someone would put the case forward persuasively... My wallet knows well that it doesn't take much to get me to empty it for a pen.

As for the blinginess of SS, it's because in this case it's not *truly* a matte finish. It does shine, and in such away that it attracts attention due to the curves of the pen interacting with the brushed finish for that holographic look. A 51 is less blingy because it's less shiny and much less understated. (Though we all know that it's one of the blingiest pens you can have )

 

 

Jack.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ytland

[bphollin]

But I'm willing to accept that others may have more muscles in their hands than I do

Me and my bulging hands are willing to accept that. I really adore the Edition 2000, but a heavy pen is not everyone's preference.

 

As for the blinginess of SS, it's because in this case it's not *truly* a matte finish. It does shine, and in such away that it attracts attention due to the curves of the pen interacting with the brushed finish for that holographic look. A 51 is less blingy because it's less shiny and much less understated. (Though we all know that it's one of the blingiest pens you can have )

So if I'm reading you right, bling equals shiny and not a matte finish like the original, right?

 

Can any one else step up like Jack and offer interpretation on why you call the new 2000 blingy?

[Rasendyll]

They're in Australia too now.... Picked mine up yesterday.....a thing of simple elegant beauty even more so than the standard 2000. Mine's joy to write with-I've had and enjoyed a regular 2000 for years, but I really like the extra weight of this. It's a medium, and doesn't seem quite as wide as the medium in my standard model, but buttery smooth nd with a lovely softness. Currently have it filled with grey ink....

 

Is it worth the price-an all steel, machined piton filler, definitely!

[Rasendyll]

One other thing...am I bothered by the lack of an ink window? Not at all, as I always carry 2-3 pens in my pocket (to have a range of nibs and ink colours) and a pouch with another three in my briefcase. Bottles of ink at home and work too.....

[jakelogan]

-No ink window

-Heavy (I enjoyed the lightweight of the plastic 2000 and it's the only reason I keep it in my rotation)

-Pricey (You can buy 3 new plastic 2000s or 4-5 used ones for the price that the SS 2000 goes for)

-Flashy (I liked the subdued look that represents the Lamy design and appearance. The 2000 you can take to a coffee shop without starers)

-Same nib as Lamy 2000 (a good thing, but for the premium you would expect something more)

 

And did I mention 3 new 2000s for the price of 1 SS?

 

If I wanted a heavy, pricey, and flashy fountain pen that writes quite well and has no ink window I would get an S.T. Dupont.

 

Needless to say if it was priced more reasonably I would ignore everything else and have had at least an EF, OB, and a stub grind by now.

[chris.hale]

I love the look of the SS version, but from what bphollin says it would be too heavy, and the lack of an ink window is a deal breaker for me. I know that the ink window on the makrolon version is small, but it works well enough to let me know when it needs filling.

[hari317]

And did I mention 3 new 2000s for the price of 1 SS?

 

...

 

Needless to say if it was priced more reasonably I would ignore everything else and have had at least an EF, OB, and a stub grind by now.

 

Where can I buy a new regular plastic 2000FP for 70Euros? I ask, since I can buy the 2000 M for 200Euros shipped.

 

Hari

[dannzeman]

...

-Pricey (You can buy 3 new plastic 2000s or 4-5 used ones for the price that the SS 2000 goes for)

...

 

And did I mention 3 new 2000s for the price of 1 SS?

...

 

Where exactly can you find a brand new 2000 for $100? The cheapest I've seen anywhere is $130, and most places sell them for close to $150. That would make it exactly 2, for the price of the SS.

[Wolverine1]

The new SS version really looks good. Though, I will wait a while, and see if I can find one in the FPN Classifieds:)

My first Lamy 2000 cost me $60, and the second cost me $90.00 almost new. Both were from the FPN Classifieds.

[Rasendyll]

Interesting the price of the SS version in Australia is $385-which is comparable allowing for our GST etc, but at the same time the standard Makrolon 2000 in the same shop on the same day was $315.

 

I don't find it at all too heavy-it's weighty, but comfortably so and well balanced.

[dannzeman]

Perhaps I should clarify:

The Lamy 2000 is a 'form follows function' pen because the entire design is bent towards the one thing a pen is expected to do well: write. The balance, weight and shape were all perfectly designed for the serious writer, and my personal experience says that five consecutive hours of scrawling with this thing won't fatigue you in the same way as some other pens do after only ten minutes.

 

The 2000M is all about bling. It's heavy, shiny and essentially made to look good and attract stares. 'Form follows appearance'.

 

Rationale:

If I would be looking for a writer, this wouldn't be it. The L2K was designed to be a writer. Hence reversal of the design ethic.

 

As for the overinflated price, it may be that the SS overlay is worth as much as an entire normal L2K pen (it is only a shell over a plastic mechanism). I, for one, will remain skeptical in that regard.

 

EDIT:

 

...and the complete reversal of the proprietary minimalist and inconspicuous design ethic. This is an extension of the blingy look Lamy has started to shift towards ever since it came out with the eye-searingly shiny Studio Pt (Platinum coat)...

Lamy says they design each pen using the Bauhaus principle of form follows function. I don't see anywhere where the new SS version deviates from that. It's just as minimalistic as the Makrolon 2000. Looking at some of the other functional techniques of the Bauhaus principle:

• Simpicity
• Symmetry
• Angularity
• Abstraction
• Consistency
• Unity
• Organization
• Economy
• Subtlety
• Continuity
• Regularity
• Sharpness
• Monochomaticity

 

Perhaps this list is worth scrutinising.

 

-Simp[l]icity and symmetry are definitely Bauhaus trademarks

-Angularity is not. Most higher tier (read: designed) Lamy pens have smooth, clean and fluid lines. I assume you're referring to the sharp corners on the clip...?

-Abstraction. That's... abstract

-Consistency. Well, machining is computer controlled these days, so I suppose all the pens Lamy makes would be rather consistently proportioned.

-Unity. Organisation. I don't know much about the factory culture. Or the pens' personalities. My makrolon L2K has several.

-Economy. Definitely not. This thing costs almost as much as a Pelikan m800.

-Subtlety. The makrolon is. The SS is only subtle to the blind.

-Continuity. In its angularity?

-Regularity. The pen used to be exemplary. Now it's just like any other blingy pen, so yes. Regular.

-Sharpness. Clip.

-Monochromaticity. It depends what the pen is reflecting at the time.

 

End vent. No offense intended Dan, I love your vids/reviews. Most of your list could be legitimately applied to most of Lamy's pen lineup. I'm more stunned at the company, that seems to lean more and more towards the upper-market mentality that so many others have already moved over to...

 

Jack.

Jack,

 

There may be some misunderstanding. First, the Lamy SS 2000 is not using an overlay. The pen is solid stainless steel. Until we know the profit on each pen, we can't say that the price of the SS is over inflated. Well, we can, but that would be pure speculation. All we can say for sure is that it is significantly more expensive than the standard 2000. Whether that expense is justifiable is a personal preference.

 

Secondly, the list of Bauhaus techniques I mentioned came from A Primer of Visual Literacy by Donis A. Donis (1973). They weren't my opinion. They're techniques that are used in the Bauhaus design. Not all of them have to be used and not all Lamy pens use them.

 

As for the blinginess of SS, it's because in this case it's not *truly* a matte finish. It does shine, and in such away that it attracts attention due to the curves of the pen interacting with the brushed finish for that holographic look. A 51 is less blingy because it's less shiny and much less understated. (Though we all know that it's one of the blingiest pens you can have )

Of course it shines. It's metal. It is a matte finish, though. A brushed finish has been applied to increase its diffuse reflection (scattering of light). For the SS version to have the same low level of reflectance as the original, it would need to be so rough that it would probably be uncomfortable to hold. Material also plays a huge part in the amount of reflection. It may very well be possible that, due to the naturally high reflectivity of metal, no level of surface roughness could achieve the same low level of reflectance as the original.

 

Also, how is a Parker 51 Flighter less shiny and understated? It has a smoother surface than the SS 2000 and a gold clip and cap band (on some models). If anything, it's more blingy than the SS 2000.

[hari317]

 

There may be some misunderstanding. First, the Lamy SS 2000 is not using an overlay. The pen is solid stainless steel.

 

Can you pls shed more light:

 

Is the ink in the reservoir then in direct contact with the SS barrel? Does the piston run directly in contact with walls of the SS cylinder?

 

Hari