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Herbin Lie De Thé


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#1 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:35

For convenient viewing of the images, you may wish to scroll to the menu at the very bottom of this window to ensure the FPN Theme is Posted Image.

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As the patches are neutral grey, that is what you should see.

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Grey Scale.
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- ♢ -


Figure 1.
Swabs & Swatch
Paper: HPJ1124 24 lb. Laser Copy.
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Figure 2.
NIB-ism ✑
Paper: HPJ1124.

Depicts nibs' down-stroke width and pens' relative wetness.
IMG-thumb:
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Pens: L → R: Somiko, P99, C74, 45, Phileas & Prelude.


Figure 3.
Paper base tints:

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L → R: HPJ1124, Rhodia, G Lalo white, Royal, Staples 20 lb.


WRITTEN SAMPLES - Moby Dick
Ruling: 8mm.

Figure 4.
Paper: HPJ1124.
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Figure 5.
Paper: Rhodia.
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Figure 6.
Paper: G Lalo, Verge de France, white.
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Figure 7.
Paper: Royal - 25% rag.
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Figure 8.
Paper: Staples Creme 20 lb.
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Figure 9.
Paper: Staples multi-use 20 lb.
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Figure 10.
Grocery List
Paper: Pulp. One-a-Day calendar page.
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OTHER STUFF

Figure 11.
Smear/Dry Times
Wet Tests ☂
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GENERAL DESCRIPTION

Type:
  • Dye-based fountain pen ink.
Presentation:
  • Bottle.
Availability:
  • Available when Topic posted.
Daily writer?
  • Unlikely.
A go-to ink?
  • When a lustrous vegetal Brown is desired.

USE

Business:
(From the office of Ms Blue-Black.)
  • A long shot.
  • A very very long shot.
  • For drafts and ephemera: things that may not even see the inside of a Meeting Room.
  • May not be suitable for extensive reading under warm colour light sources. e.g. tungsten filament incandescent light bulbs.
  • HLdT might be used for editing and mark-up, but does not seem to have sufficient zap for error correction and grading.
Illustrations / Graphics:
  • HLdT will be most welcome, whether from a pen or brush.
  • The intriguing subtle colour is unlikely to be achieved in a mix. (So sorry Platinum Free Mix Masters.)
  • Likely useful as a soft ground colour; unlikely to be used to depict a primary figure.
  • This ink brings a certain lustre to the party, which unfortunately is not apparent in the scans.
  • In general, line quality is very good, so it can be used for tight narrow lines; but there is persistent shading, so may not suit diagrams, label text, graphs, charts, etc.
Students:
  • Not convinced.
  • As for Business use above, perhaps for ephemera, drafts, and that which is not of primary importance and/or may be revised.
  • Also, HLdT may suffer reduced readability under warm light sources e.g. candles, tungsten incandescent bulbs.
  • Not sufficiently dynamic for written assignments.
Personal:
  • Absolutely! :thumbup:
  • Of the Brown inks I've used, this must be one of my personal favourites.
  • It doesn't run on rails, nor is it a journeyman ink, nor would it be mistaken as a business ink. Mais non! 'ere is an 'erbin for zee oh so very me-to-you 'tu' personal writings.
  • Impossible for pro forma personal business writing.
  • The somewhat pale tone of the ink slows the reading process just a tad, inducing the reader to spend more time reading what is written.
  • As much as I like it, I would be hesitant to use it for wee missives of more than six pages: not a breezy ink. (?)
  • HLdT does not try to appear olde tyme, or draw a visceral response by invoking delectable food group/s. (Not even a cuppa.)
  • So far, with my atrocious hand writing, I am reluctant to use a sharp Italic nib: line width variation may combine with the shading to give a jumbled look, slowing the the reading process a bit too much perhaps.
  • Some additional character may be derived from a modest oblique, a narrow Stub or a low flex nib, yes? (IMHO, darker inks can handle the shading + Italic combo much more readily than a pale ink.)
  • Billets doux? Not really.

PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE & CHARACTERISTICS

Flow Rate:
  • Drier than many inks - even for an Herbin.
Nib Dry-out:
  • Not noticed.
Start-up:
  • Prompt.
  • The dryness may not elicit confidence, but no virga was seen.
Lubrication:
  • Low - a disappointment. :huh:
  • Likely related to ink's dryness.
  • Narrow nibs used on the textured papers were barely tolerable.
Nib Creep:
  • Not seen.
Staining:
  • Not seen after three days.
Clogging:
  • Not seen.
  • Seems very unlikely
Bleed- Show-Through:
  • Not seen on papers used.
Feathering / Woolly Line:
  • Not seen on papers used.
Smell:
  • No apparent scent.
Hand oil sensitivity:
  • Not seen.
Clean-Up:
  • Quick and thorough with plain water.
Mixing:
  • JH says no dice.
  • Non, Non, et Non.
Archival:
  • Not specifically claimed.
Smear/Dry Times & Water Resistance:
  • Please see Figure 11.

† I have found that the combination of non-absorbent paper with a dry ink can be less bothersome when a very light hand and wider nib are used - the line width appears to be reduced by approximately one nib grade. Fiddling with the posture of the pen to find the heart of the nib's sweet spot may also help.

THE LOOK

Presence:
  • Warm and soft.
  • Reminiscent of the warm silky touch of a short-haired dachshund's ear.

Saturation:
  • Quite low.
Shading:
  • Magnifique! :happyberet:
  • All nibs on all papers generated shading that is quite wonderful and absolutely Herbin-esque.
Variability:
  • Pen+nib combos used:
    • Quite evident indeed, but not unexpected; well-mannered ink this.
  • Papers used:
    • A bit more than expected, due to dryness of the ink it seems.
  • Malleability:
    • High.
    • This really is a pale ink, oui? Yet it is dry, so it can be pushed into greater densities and still hold together, maintaining its character. (That was also seen with Waterman Havana.)
    • A small but important point is that well-made pale low-saturation inks are just that, and to drive them too far into darker high densities may be contrary to their nature: rather akin to adding a high amount of mild tea to the pot rather than using an average amount of robust tea.
    • I would prefer to maintain a high degree of shading on a smooth surface paper with a somewhat wet writer. (See the Hi-Res scan below from the C74.)

Hi-Res Scans:

As I do not aspire to the sobriquet 'Reine Des Bandits de Largeur de Bande', these are IMG-thumbs only.

Somiko on HPJ1124
Posted Image

C74 on Rhodia
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45 on G Lalo
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Prelude on Royal
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FIDELITY

Is the name appropriate?
  • I suppose so, but after rikyu-cha, I have no idea what leaf is in the pot demi courtine bottle.
Are swatches accurate?
  • Colour is OK, but depiction density is so high that it seems quite misleading - the pale density of HLdT from a pen of normal wetness is not apparent. (You know how much I love to hate swabs, yes?)

SIMILAR COLOURS

  • Kindly refer to this Post: LINK
  • The Sailor Jentle rikyu-cha was mentioned as a possible, but was an LV ink, long since discontinued. LINK

PAPERS

Lovely papers:
  • White.
  • Even a cool white. (No joke!)
Trip-wire Papers: ☠
  • It is apparent that G Lalo pushes HLdT close to its limit. So unless one chooses a wet pen to match, I would avoid hard / non-absorbent papers.
  • Dirty whites.
Tinted Papers:
  • While this is a matter of personal taste, and likely somewhat contrary to current fashion, I do not care for the show-through of the warm tints from the G Lalo or the Creme.
  • To me, the ink is poised and balanced on white paper, but could be unseated if one works against its colour - even at a higher density.
Pre-Printed Papers:
  • Forms:
    • Unwelcome use of such an ink.
    • As the ink is quite warm, it comes forward - away from the plane of the paper - detatched from the typical Black-printed form text.
  • Charts & graphs:
    • I believe the persistent shading may make HLdT unsuitable for such use.
Is high-end paper 'worth it'?
  • Quite possible.
  • I think that the smooth-surfaced papers will get the best from HLdT, but really must have absorbency greater than Clairefontaine Triomphe unless running a wet writer.
  • maruman P143 and the G Lalo Velin de France immediately come to mind.

ETC.

Majik:
  • Quite possible in a very subtle way.
  • Likely to occur when you're not looking.
Personal Pen & Paper Pick:
  • A bit tricky.
  • Twas a toss-up between the P99 on HPJ1124 and the C74 on Rhodia, which are really quite different. However, the P99 on HPJ1124 was chosen for the line density and base-tint of the sheet.
  • I was aghast at the 'not for me' appearance from the Phileas. Is it just me? Please chime-in!
Yickity Yackity:
  • Another 'on purpose' ink, not for me to use every day.
  • I have fun picking a few pens & papers for this ink.
  • Ah kushbaby, there's no doubting the reason/s that HLdT is available in 100 ml bottles.

======

NUTS & BOLTS

Pens

IMG-thumb:
Posted Image

Written Samples:

  • Sailor Somiko + TIGP F nib.
  • Pelikan P99 + steel F nib.
  • Pilot Custom 74 + 14K SFM nib.
  • Parker 45 + g-p steel M nib.
  • Waterman Phileas + steel B nib.
  • Sheaffer Prelude + factory stock steel B stub nib.
For lines & labels:
  • Noodler's Lexington Gray from a Pilot Lady + F nib.


Papers:
  • HPJ1124 24 lb. Laser Copy.
  • Rhodia.
  • G Lalo, Verge de France, white.
  • Royal, 25% cotton rag.
  • Staples Pastel, creme, 20lb.
  • Staples 20lb. multi use.
  • Pulp. One-a-Day Calendar page.

Images
  • An Epson V600 scanner was used with the bundled Epson s/w at factory default settings to produce jpg files.
  • Figures shown were scanned at 200 dpi & 24 bit colour.
  • Hi-Res Images linked were scanned at 300 dpi & 24 bit colour.
  • No post-capture manipulation of scanner output was done, other than dumb-down by Epson, Photobucket & IP.Board s/w.

Densitometer Readings:
HPJ1124.
  • Red 185
  • Grn 145
  • Blu 109
  • Lum 144

Fine Print
The accuracy and relevance of this Review depends in great part upon consistency and reliability of matériel used.
Ink does not require labelling/notice to indicate (changes in) formulation, non-hazardous ingredients, batch ID, date of manufacture, etc.
As always, YMMV; not only from materials, methods, environment, etc., but also due to differences between the stuff I used, and that you may have.
Also, I entrust readers to separate opinion from fact; to evaluate inferences and conclusions as to their merit; and to be amused by whatever tickles your fancy.

-30-

TAGS: Fountain pen ink review Herbin Lie de Thé Tea Sandy1

Edited by Sandy1, 06 April 2012 - 07:51.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


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#2 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:37

Hi,

J Herbin Lie de Thé is the ninth ink to be reviewed in the 'One of the Eleven' (OOTE) group of Brown inks.

When complete, the intention is to have the OOTE inks reviewed in the same manner, to the maximum practical extent.

Hopefully the OOTE reviews will assist practitioners in choosing their Brown/s, and avoid unintentional purchase of equivalent ink/s.

The Written Samples' format and scans are designed to support comparisons through manipulation of browser windows. Consequently, for the OOTE series, separate comparison post/s will be generated only from material included in the Ink Reviews when the OOTE series is complete, as I see fit, and upon Members' request.

I will be the first to admit that my experience with Brown inks is somewhat lean, so OOTE may be an interesting voyage of discovery - for me at least.

Bye,
Sandy1

= = = =

Prior OOTE Ink Reviews:

_ _ _ _

Prior Comparison:

Edited by Sandy1, 06 April 2012 - 07:39.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#3 Phormula

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:32

Thanks Sandy! :notworthy1:

Your reviews are so well made that I read them even for the inks I am not interested in :thumbup: :roflmho:
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Nobody makes it out alive anyway

#4 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:02

Thanks Sandy! :notworthy1:

Your reviews are so well made that I read them even for the inks I am not interested in :thumbup: :roflmho:


Hi,

You're welcome!

Sometimes I write Reviews for inks that I am not interested in - even though HLdT is clearly not one of those! ;)

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#5 Fabienne

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:17

Thanks, Sandy, as always, a magnificent review. I loved Herbin Lie de The. It is a great balancing act between green and brown and shades very well. I had to give it up but I still loved it while I had it.


 It's for Yew!bastardchildlil.jpg

 


#6 Morrighan

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:32

Thank you, Sandy, for the impeccable review.

This is the ink I turn to for a Sheaffer (American) Brown substitute. I'm down to the last of my S(A)B and am completely content with the Herbin offering. Thrilled, actually. But it's out of rotation for me until autumn.

#7 januaryman

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:47

I retreated to this ink after finding PR Sepia to be too thick and dry for any of my pens. I like it, but it is no match for that sepia... Of only I could get it to flow!

Anyway, Sandy, the review is, as usual, exceptionally well done. They are a model of detail and usefulness. :notworthy1:
It is easier to stay out than get out. - Mark Twain

#8 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:43

Thanks, Sandy, as always, a magnificent review. I loved Herbin Lie de The. It is a great balancing act between green and brown and shades very well. I had to give it up but I still loved it while I had it.

Hi,

You're welcome!

Not to be nosy, but after you stopped using HLdT, what if any ink took its place in your array?

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#9 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:48

Thank you, Sandy, for the impeccable review.

This is the ink I turn to for a Sheaffer (American) Brown substitute. I'm down to the last of my S(A)B and am completely content with the Herbin offering. Thrilled, actually. But it's out of rotation for me until autumn.

Hi,

You're welcome!

Thanks for mentioning the successful substitution of HLdT for the discontinued S(A)B.

I don't suppose you look forward to the end of Summer (coming of Autumn) just so that HLdT comes back into your rotation. (?)

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#10 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 14:14

I retreated to this ink after finding PR Sepia to be too thick and dry for any of my pens. I like it, but it is no match for that sepia... Of only I could get it to flow!

Anyway, Sandy, the review is, as usual, exceptionally well done. They are a model of detail and usefulness. :notworthy1:

Hi,

Many thanks for your kind words!

HLdT is quite dry indeed, but flows well from wet pens. i.e. It responds well to the nature of the nib+feed.

I have not tried PR Sepia, though we have the good fortune that member Miles R. has posted a Review, which includes a written comparison to Noodler's Golden Brown and HLdT. LINK
HLdT is also included in the astounding comparison of thirty Sepia inks by Member dcpritch LINK

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#11 Morrighan

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 16:49

I don't suppose you look forward to the end of Summer (coming of Autumn) just so that HLdT comes back into your rotation. (?)

Bye,
S1


I always look forward to my autumnal browns and oranges. Quite a few spring colors to enjoy until Beltine, and certainly a summer of turquoises to enjoy as well!

#12 inkstainedruth

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 17:27

Thanks Sandy! :notworthy1:

Your reviews are so well made that I read them even for the inks I am not interested in :thumbup: :roflmho:


Alas -- sometimes I read the reviews for inks that I'm *positive* I'm not interested in. And then I get my mind changed (not comepletely sure that this is one of those times, but still...).
My poor wallet. :headsmack:
Would you let me blame it on you when my husband complains about how much I've spent (so far) on ink samples? :roflmho:
Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth
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#13 Uncle Red

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 18:13

Thanks yet again Sandy for a great review. I have to give this a try. I love Caran d'Ache Grand Canyon because it's a neutral brown that shades well (especially out of my M150 B nib) but it's expensive and a lot of that is the bottle. This may be a substitute.

#14 SenZen

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:32

Another great review, thank you! Lie de Thé comes out darker and with a bit more of a green hue than in any of your samples from my Pelikan (not sure if it's an m300 or m200) with a fine nib (with natural light on a Maruman notebook)... Then again this monitor might just be too bright!
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#15 PaperDarts

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:29

So interesting - the different looks of the same ink with different nibs and papers. At first glance some of them could be a different ink altogether. The greenish tint you mention made me think of Diamine Umber, a bottle of which I recently received from another FPN member - I think they would look great side by side. Thanks for another great review!
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#16 geoduc

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:37

Thanks, Sandy. Another stellar review and you've saved my wallet again - I'll stick with tsukushi.

#17 Sandy1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:45

Thanks Sandy! :notworthy1:

Your reviews are so well made that I read them even for the inks I am not interested in :thumbup: :roflmho:


Alas -- sometimes I read the reviews for inks that I'm *positive* I'm not interested in. And then I get my mind changed (not comepletely sure that this is one of those times, but still...).
My poor wallet. :headsmack:
Would you let me blame it on you when my husband complains about how much I've spent (so far) on ink samples? :roflmho:
Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


Hi,

You're welcome!

It seems that some Members consider me an 'ink enabler', so I take responsibility for enabling inky enjoyment & appreciation.

Enjoyment also includes avoiding unrewarding purchases. So perhaps mention to your husband all the inks that you have not purchased; and how much you enjoy the inks in your array. As they're only wee samples, that shows incredible restraint. And if you're using the ink, not hoarding it, then it is a practical purchase.

I get blamed for lots of stuff, so if you need someone to blame, sure - pick me.

But encourage your husband to read a few Reviews in hope that he'll develop an appreciation of ink as well.

Bye,
S1

Edited by Sandy1, 07 April 2012 - 10:46.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#18 Sandy1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:55

Thanks yet again Sandy for a great review. I have to give this a try. I love Caran d'Ache Grand Canyon because it's a neutral brown that shades well (especially out of my M150 B nib) but it's expensive and a lot of that is the bottle. This may be a substitute.


Hi,

You're welcome!

I also have Grand Canyon, which is an amazing ink. It is also an 'on purpose' ink, that sees use from time to time, certainly not a default Brown ink.

I've posted a Review of GC LINK , and the task of producing comparison exemplars is on my To Do list. That Review also includes the C74, so fairly good comparisons are possible.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#19 Sandy1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:04

Another great review, thank you! Lie de Thé comes out darker and with a bit more of a green hue than in any of your samples from my Pelikan (not sure if it's an m300 or m200) with a fine nib (with natural light on a Maruman notebook)... Then again this monitor might just be too bright!


Hi,

You're welcome!

Thank-you for mentioning the difference between what you have and what you are seeing on your monitor. (I hope you have adjusted your computer gear so the Grey Scale is accurately displayed.)

As it seems some of the Herbin inks are undergoing changes of manufacturing process and/or formulation, there may be deviation in the inks before and after that change. I suggest comparing your ink to the depictions in other review/comparison posts as well.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#20 Sandy1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:24

So interesting - the different looks of the same ink with different nibs and papers. At first glance some of them could be a different ink altogether. The greenish tint you mention made me think of Diamine Umber, a bottle of which I recently received from another FPN member - I think they would look great side by side. Thanks for another great review!


Hi,

You're welcome!

HLdT is definitely a malleable ink that gives one considerable range to explore. Being of low saturation, the base tint of the paper plays an important role. (As was seen in the Review of Velin de France.)

Also, as Brown inks are complex colours, not found on a typical simple colour wheel, their appearance changes more than a 'pure' Blue ink for example; which is likely to retain its appearance as a Blue ink at any density.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.







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