Two New Pelikan Inks

[The Good Captain]

Well, I'll just keep on touching the three 62.5ml bottles I have of 4001BB for now.

[orangos]

Just remember that advanced moronic behavior by a bureaucracy can be indistinguishable from idiocy. I just learned that the poor folks in the UK have ammonia banned and have to jump through hoops to find it.

 

Not sure if ammonia has been completely banned from sale in the UK. Perhaps it's just pulled from over-the-counter sales. I do recall looking in DIY stores to no avail recently, but they only stock what they'll sell by the thousand anyway. There are bottles for sale via graphic supplies stores (for printer cleaning), and on ebay.co.uk, amazon.co.uk, etc.

[raging.dragon]

I guess this means Pelikan can afford lobbiests in the EU but not in the US.

 

Was Pelikan Blue Black an iron gall ink, like the recently discontinued for regulatory reasons, Lamy Blue Black?

 

Interesting news, I wonder when they'll hit the US. I just wish the Edelsteins weren't so ridiculously overpriced... I think the MSRP is now up to $22.00!

 

I'd rather pay that kind of price for Iroshizoku inks.

 

Yeah. The Edelstein inks may be nice, but they aren't that special.

 

Isn't ammonia one of the building blocks of life? Next, they ban H2O!

 

I think it's clear that the problematic ingredient in both the Pelikan and Lamy inks must be dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO).

 

http://www.dhmo.org/

 

you're sure it's not Hydroxic acid?

 

Not to mention hydroxide and hydronium. These inks are just full of dangerous sounding chemicals!

[The Good Captain]

Perhaps they just have Pelekysphobia in general, that side of the big water.

[anaximander]

I was among the mourners when Pelikan Blue-Black ceased to be available in the US. It's one of my very favorite inks and I managed to stockpile quite a bit of it. Not sure if I'm willing to pay Edelstein prices for the same ink. I'd be more inclined to switch to Diamine Midnight.

[KCat]

Isn't ammonia one of the building blocks of life? Next, they ban H2O!

 

Well, not exactly. Amino acids are parts of many of the proteins in our body and as a result. The breakdown of proteins in our body leads to ammonia production. We have ammonia then in our body that is normal and unless it's at an excessive level it's not dangerous. It's excreted or (I think*) reutilized to some extent but not in that form. It has to be broken down again into amines to be used for other cell constituents.

 

Otherwise, it's rather unpleasant stuff for us to inhale or whatever and combines with other chemicals in dangerous ways if you're not careful.

 

My biology is very rusty so how much ammonia is actually recycled in the system is unknown to me but I'm guessing at least some because nature is pretty darn good about things like that.

[The Good Captain]

Just remember that advanced moronic behavior by a bureaucracy can be indistinguishable from idiocy. I just learned that the poor folks in the UK have ammonia banned and have to jump through hoops to find it.

 

Not sure if ammonia has been completely banned from sale in the UK. Perhaps it's just pulled from over-the-counter sales. I do recall looking in DIY stores to no avail recently, but they only stock what they'll sell by the thousand anyway. There are bottles for sale via graphic supplies stores (for printer cleaning), and on ebay.co.uk, amazon.co.uk, etc.

 

 

Purely as an exercise, I looked for some in our small hardware store and got a bottle, readily available and on display, of Barrettine 'AmoKleen' Household Ammonia which states' "contains Ammonia solution 9 1/2% (9.5%)." I've no idea what this % dilution relates to, in terms of its suitability for FP cleaning and difficult ink removal but suggested dilutions of this liquid, are as follows:

General cleaning: 70-140ml/5 litres

Glass cleaning: 70-140ml/5 litres

Laundry aid: 35ml/5 litres

Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the chemistry involved can enlighten us!

 

 

[Ad_Astra]

Well, not exactly. Amino acids are parts of many of the proteins in our body and as a result. The breakdown of proteins in our body leads to ammonia production. We have ammonia then in our body that is normal and unless it's at an excessive level it's not dangerous. It's excreted or (I think*) reutilized to some extent but not in that form. It has to be broken down again into amines to be used for other cell constituents.

 

Otherwise, it's rather unpleasant stuff for us to inhale or whatever and combines with other chemicals in dangerous ways if you're not careful.

 

My biology is very rusty so how much ammonia is actually recycled in the system is unknown to me but I'm guessing at least some because nature is pretty darn good about things like that.

 

Ammonia is converted to urea pretty quick, which we know is a pretty potent fertilizer for plants, and around and around we go.

[raging.dragon]

Just remember that advanced moronic behavior by a bureaucracy can be indistinguishable from idiocy. I just learned that the poor folks in the UK have ammonia banned and have to jump through hoops to find it.

 

Not sure if ammonia has been completely banned from sale in the UK. Perhaps it's just pulled from over-the-counter sales. I do recall looking in DIY stores to no avail recently, but they only stock what they'll sell by the thousand anyway. There are bottles for sale via graphic supplies stores (for printer cleaning), and on ebay.co.uk, amazon.co.uk, etc.

 

 

Purely as an exercise, I looked for some in our small hardware store and got a bottle, readily available and on display, of Barrettine 'AmoKleen' Household Ammonia which states' "contains Ammonia solution 9 1/2% (9.5%)." I've no idea what this % dilution relates to, in terms of its suitability for FP cleaning and difficult ink removal but suggested dilutions of this liquid, are as follows:

General cleaning: 70-140ml/5 litres

Glass cleaning: 70-140ml/5 litres

Laundry aid: 35ml/5 litres

Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the chemistry involved can enlighten us!

 

I believe the common wisdom is to use 5% ammonia for fountain pen cleaning, so dilute your AmoKleen 1:1 with (distilled) water and you should be good.

[Edgar Allan Bo]

I hope they keep the standard blue-black as it is!

[Fabienne]

DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE!!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS! That stuff has killed more people than all the atom bombs every exploded! EEEEEK!

 

I was always taught that you need 4 basic chemical compounds for life: di hydrous monoxide (water), ammonia, and I forgot the other two (maybe whiskey and sugar...just can't recall). But ammonia was one of them.

 

I know I am not thinking of the Big 4 of nutrition: salt, sugar, starch, and grease.

[Tweel]

Purely as an exercise, I looked for some in our small hardware store and got a bottle, readily available and on display, of Barrettine 'AmoKleen' Household Ammonia which states' "contains Ammonia solution 9 1/2% (9.5%)."...

 

I believe the common wisdom is to use 5% ammonia for fountain pen cleaning, so dilute your AmoKleen 1:1 with (distilled) water and you should be good.

That's 5% ammonia, diluted 1:10 with water, so the AmoKleen should be diluted about 1:20.

[lapis]

Was Pelikan Blue Black an iron gall ink, like the recently discontinued for regulatory reasons, Lamy Blue Black?

Okay, I just talked to Pelikan again and they said that their "Blue-Black" has -- since at least 25 years ago-- never, ever had any iron-gall content. Not even any minuscule quantities. That is the same today and they do not propose to add any iron-galls anymore. That also pertains to all of the Edelstein inks. Sure, Pelikan's customer service may be lying, but I doubt that.

 

Mike

[foxtail1]

Snippy aside: Imagine! The FDA (in the USA) had disapproved of ingredients that the EU approves of? Call the Guinness' Book of World's Records!

 

I've been doing some research on food coloring (technically called food color additives, I believe), and, surprisingly, Japan and several EU countries allow up to 15 different food colors. The US has only 7 on its approved list (the FD&C colors), and only 4 of those are widely used.

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled ink discussion.

Edited January 31, 2012 by foxtail1

[cybaea]

Apologies for resurrecting a long-dead thread, but it is linked as authoritative source from an ink review so perhaps deserves an update.

 

Okay, I just talked to Pelikan again and they said that their "Blue-Black" has -- since at least 25 years ago-- never, ever had any iron-gall content. Not even any minuscule quantities. That is the same today and they do not propose to add any iron-galls anymore. That also pertains to all of the Edelstein inks. Sure, Pelikan's customer service may be lying, but I doubt that.

Mike

 

 

From the Pelikan web site at http://www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_GB.CMS.displayCMS.205954./document-proof-ink (my highlight) [retrieved 2015-07-05T20:22Z] :

 

The least complicated ink which is still relatively light resistant, is the ink "4001 blue-black", our item no. 310 607. This ink contains iron gall, which makes it much more resistant than for example the ink shades 4001 royal blue or 4001 brilliant black, but due to the addition of special ingredients, you can still use this ink without qualm in piston or cartridge fountain pens. Within time, the ink will change its tone from blue to gray, but it will remain visible. It is not quite as light resistant as the Fount India. Due to the small concentration of iron gall, this ink will not damage your paper (which sometimes happened with historic ink made of iron gall.)
[...]
You can find more information in the Internet, for example on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_gall_ink

[lapis]

Now that is a good piece of Information. I wonder how old that news is. 2015-07-05 is the date you found that site? Again, what Pelikan told me was something more than three years ago. Maybe they did/do really manufacture the 4001 blue-black as an iron-gall. I'll have to look more deeply into that. Food for thought. Thanks for the post!

 

Mike

[The Good Captain]

Now that is a good piece of Information. I wonder how old that news is. 2015-07-05 is the date you found that site? Again, what Pelikan told me was something more than three years ago. Maybe they did/do really manufacture the 4001 blue-black as an iron-gall. I'll have to look more deeply into that. Food for thought. Thanks for the post!

 

Mike

Well, you know my predilection for 4001 Blue-Black. Remember the pic I put up on here ages ago, of the old bottle that was proof?

Well, here it is again.

 

 

Bless 4001!!!!!

[jmccarty3]

I want to put in a good word for Edelstein Tanzanite. It tames my gushing Pelikan nibs very nicely, and is otherwise well-behaved. It's an adequately dark blue/black, without a hint of teal, and I don't see any purple in it. I must admit that I had no experience with the old 4001 blue/black, so I can't speak to it. but I get a finer line with Tanzanite from a Pelikan F nib than i do with other inks from a Pelikan EF. I plan to use Edelsteins in my other very wet nibs (and to avoid them in my very dry ones).

[lapis]

Well, you know my predilection for 4001 Blue-Black. Remember the pic I put up on here ages ago, of the old bottle that was proof?

Well, here it is again.

 

 

Bless 4001!!!!!

No, I'll never forget that shot. I've copied it and also referred to it lots of times (again, a thousand thanks)....

... but... that bottle of yours is at least 30 years old, and P told me that since 28 or so years, that 4001 bb ink is no longer made as an IG relish...

[lapis]

I want to put in a good word for Edelstein Tanzanite. It tames my gushing Pelikan nibs very nicely, and is otherwise well-behaved. It's an adequately dark blue/black, without a hint of teal, and I don't see any purple in it. I must admit that I had no experience with the old 4001 blue/black, so I can't speak to it. but I get a finer line with Tanzanite from a Pelikan F nib than i do with other inks from a Pelikan EF. I plan to use Edelsteins in my other very wet nibs (and to avoid them in my very dry ones).

Thanks to you too for that comment. I see it as a nice substantiation of that which I said in my review. It's really wet and it's also a "real" blue-black without any gimmicks like a lot of red or green. A good disciple of our 4001!

 

Mike