Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies



Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Inset Nib On The Namiki Silvern- Removing And Re-Sealing


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 20 December 2011 - 18:40

I have a small but growing collection of the Namiki/Pilot Silvern pens, I love these pens for their balance and good looks-aided by the inset nib. However, I have had bad luck with the problem of ink seepage around the nib, since my grip is such that my forefinger touches the tail of these nibs. The first leaky nib I sent out to Pilot, they replaced it under warranty but took months to return the pen.

I was really frustrated when I took out this second pen from storage and brought it back into rotation after a year, the previously sound nib was now slowly leaching out ink. This time I decided to take the matter in my hand. The reason for the leak is the failed sealing between the nib and the section. The Nib is glued to the section. Failed glue allows ink to trap in the capillary space between the nib and section and slowly leaches out from there, staining the fingers.

I slid a 1 mil brass shim sheet carefully underneath the nib, starting from the tail, to break the glue bond. making sure that the bond was broken, I also slid a narrow strip of the sheet from the front so that the area there could also be freed.

Posted Image

Once I was sure that the nib is reasonably free, I pried one side of the nib out from one side:
Posted Image

This freed the nib and i could seperate the nib and feed, you can see the patchy glue work:
Posted Image

Glue remains on the nib and section:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The nib underside cleaned off the debris:
Posted Image

The section cleaned, it was difficult to remove the thin film of adhesive used by Pilot.
Posted Image

Side grooves for the nib:
Posted Image

Posted Image

I asked in the repair forum about a suitable glue to re-attach the nib and I got a recommendation for GS Hypo cement by Force. It is not a product available locally, I bought it form a KHK based seller and had to wait approx 20days for it to arrive, I applied a thin layer of the glue with its "precision" applicator. waited for 15seconds and slid the nib onto the section and wiped the excess glue off with a cotton swap soaked in Isopropyl alcohol. Since this was a time critical operation, I could not take photos of the glue application and nib refitting stage. Take care not to apply excessive glue, take care not to get glue onto the feed, it will be a disaster.

Nib fitted and excess glue wiped off(yesterday evening after work):
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I left the pen alone for 24 hours, allowing the glue to cure fully, fill tested the pen today eveing and so far so good, no leaks.

Posted Image

Posted Image

I think it is an easy enough job for a careful DIY person. I thank Stan for telling me the basics of how the nib is put together and the encouragement to do this myself, however at that time I had decided to send the nib to Pilot rather than do it myself.

I hope these photos will give a better idea of how to go about, for the next person facing the same problem.

Best
Hari
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

Sponsored Content

#2 sessyargc

sessyargc

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Location:世田谷区東京都日本
  • Flag:

Posted 20 December 2011 - 22:55

Cheers to a job well done!
All the best,
Rommel

#3 peerless1

peerless1

    Antique

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,736 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:22

One does not need a special type of adhesive. When I first inquired of a Japanese pen repairer what type of adhesive to use he sent me a tube of ordinary household repair epoxy. This was nothing special. I fretted there was some super secret glue only available from the factory. There is not. What is important is to apply an even coat of adhesive. If not even ink will work its way around and through areas where there is no adhesive.

stan

Formerly Ryojusen Pens
The oldest and largest buyer and seller of vintage Japanese pens in America.


Member: Pen Collectors of America & Fuente, THE Japanese Pen Collectors Club


#4 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:47

One does not need a special type of adhesive. When I first inquired of a Japanese pen repairer what type of adhesive to use he sent me a tube of ordinary household repair epoxy. This was nothing special. I fretted there was some super secret glue only available from the factory. There is not. What is important is to apply an even coat of adhesive. If not even ink will work its way around and through areas where there is no adhesive.


and my concern was re-workability since i was going to do it for the first time. The most common two part 24H epoxy we get here is Araldite and it is very tough to remove it once it sets. Let me see how the Hypo glue holds up, it is supposed to be waterproof.

I think the unevenness of the original glue application was the culprit in my pen, I think i have managed a very even application this time, only time will tell. Also when you adjust the nib like opening up the slit etc, stress is put on the nib to section joint which I guess can cause the glue bond to break/weaken.

Thanks for your inputs Stan.
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#5 Jezza

Jezza

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 452 posts
  • Location:San Diego, CA

Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:07

Great post--thanks for sharing. Inlaid nibs always scare me for this vary reason. I had a number of Sheaffer's Imperials with the same problem. Good to know if I ever have a Silvern, there's a DIY remedy I could probably use to handle the problem myself. Is there an area for saving repair tips like this? If so, I'd vote for keeping this post and the replies handy.

#6 markiv

markiv

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 969 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 December 2011 - 14:03

Excellent post Hari
Good to see the pen back in service
The bond failure - was it the factory or somebody had worked on it before?
Posted Image

#7 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 23 December 2011 - 14:36

The bond failure - was it the factory or somebody had worked on it before?


Both the nibs were stock. The first nib was leaky when I received it. This nib was Ok when I received it and used it for a few fills. Started leaking after a year of storage...
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#8 haywoody

haywoody

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 551 posts

Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:59

Thanks for the excellent guide Hari. I had the same problem with an old Pilot Custom, which has similar construction. I followed Stan's advice and used epoxy. It turned out fine but I was shaking in my boots. I wish this post had been available at the time.

/Woody

#9 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 24 December 2011 - 05:13

Thank you Woody, I was also shaking in my boots while putting the shim in, it was an experiment to see if the shim would be enough to break the glue or something stiffer was needed, then a corner of the shim tore off and remained stuck under the nib(it is visible in the pics), that is when I knew that I had no option of stopping or going back.
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#10 peerless1

peerless1

    Antique

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,736 posts

Posted 24 December 2011 - 14:53

The bond failure - was it the factory or somebody had worked on it before?


It is a factory issue. I believe each batch of glue has a shelf life when open to air and some nibs were applied at the end of the usable life of the batch. Or it was not applied evenly.

stan

Formerly Ryojusen Pens
The oldest and largest buyer and seller of vintage Japanese pens in America.


Member: Pen Collectors of America & Fuente, THE Japanese Pen Collectors Club


#11 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 07 January 2012 - 13:30

Update:

The initial repair with the Hypo glue failed in three days of use. I used the brass shim technique to seperate the nib again(came off real easy, cleaned the shell thoroughly and this time I used two part epoxy 24Hrs setting:Araldite.

I applied the epoxy evenly, slightly in excess since it is quite thick, carefully reinserted the nib, the excess epoxy beaded up nicely around the nib tail edges. I allowed the excess glue to slightly stiffen(wait 1/2 hour) and wiped this excess off with a wet rag. I let the nib sit for 48hours for the epoxy to cure fully and have been using the pen for the last one week which included one air travel journey. No leaks! :thumbup:

I would like to edit the OP to include the above information.

Thanks!
Hari
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#12 MYU

MYU

    ... The key to it all is Capillary Action! ...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,646 posts
  • Location:On a cliff, looking at NYC
  • Flag:

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:38

Hari, I thought I might revive this thread now that the last post is just over a year old. How well did the epoxy glue hold up in your application for the Pilot inlaid nib? I hope it has been leak free for you.

[MYU's Pen Review Corner]   |   "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small


#13 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:44

Hari, I thought I might revive this thread now that the last post is just over a year old. How well did the epoxy glue hold up in your application for the Pilot inlaid nib? I hope it has been leak free for you.


Thanks for asking. Yes, It appears to have held up very well. The nib is still leak free.

Best
Hari
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#14 gregglee

gregglee

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 01:30

I agree this is a well presented, very useful thread.  Thanks. 

 

If you don't mind being revived again, I find I may need to remove the nib from the same model for a nib repair.  I have a question. 

 

I understand you slid your nib back on from the front which would be clear to do with the old glue removed.  This would push any adhesive applied to section away from the feed so no risk there.  But adhesive on the nib might risk wiping across the feed.  So did you apply glue only to the section?  

 

What about the second pass with epoxy?  Same way?. Or did you apply adhesive to both surfaces, which is the usual instruction for epoxy?  If so, did you still slide the nib in, or did you press it straight down onto the section.         

 

Thanks



#15 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:09

I agree this is a well presented, very useful thread.  Thanks. 

 

If you don't mind being revived again, I find I may need to remove the nib from the same model for a nib repair.  I have a question. 

 

I understand you slid your nib back on from the front which would be clear to do with the old glue removed.  This would push any adhesive applied to section away from the feed so no risk there.  But adhesive on the nib might risk wiping across the feed.  So did you apply glue only to the section?  

 

What about the second pass with epoxy?  Same way?. Or did you apply adhesive to both surfaces, which is the usual instruction for epoxy?  If so, did you still slide the nib in, or did you press it straight down onto the section.         

 

Thanks

No problem about the revival, I am still around to answer questions.

 

I apply epoxy only to the section, taking care that none of it gets to the feed.

 

HTH.


In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#16 gregglee

gregglee

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 13:52

Thanks.



#17 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 14:38

Thanks.

It will be nice if you can post a followup with how it went after your have attempted the repair.


In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#18 gregglee

gregglee

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 15:44

It will be nice if you can post a followup with how it went after your have attempted the repair.

I was thinking about posting a question in the repair forum looking for repair sources.   I have been hunting for someone who can do the nib repair.  I can remove it if needed, but I have never tried bending gold, nor do I have tiny tools.  Many work on tips, but this problem extends further back.  Pictures below. 

 

In the process of searching I have discovered that few pen repairers know the nib can be removed and reset.  I doubt there is any way to  do the repair with nib still on section.  The upward bend behind the down bent tip has to be straightened to bring the nib back down into proper contact with the feed.  Also I imagine the nib also needs physical support from beneath to prevent flexing down and digging in on upstrokes.

 

Your pictures show the original smooth contour.  My first is highlights from a twin flash to try to show width.  The other two show the bend profile and gap between nib and section.    The red line I added on the second one is straight.     

 

6.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg



#19 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,685 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 16:33

You can carry out the nib repair with the nib separated from the section. If you are sending it out, consider the top man John Mottishaw (www.nibs.com).

 

I suggest you just align the tip halves for now and try how the pen performs, the pronounced up and down curve of the nib indicates some trauma. you can see some more images of my other silverns here for the correct contour:

 

http://www.fountainp...stone-pavement/


In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#20 gregglee

gregglee

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 27 June 2014 - 23:25

One more question?  I now noticed a thread from a few months before you started this thread.  In it member zanio says the original adhesive can be softened with a hairdrier to aid removal.  Did you try that?

 

http://www.fountainp...t/#entry2098980


Edited by gregglee, 27 June 2014 - 23:25.







Sponsored Content




|