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Why Are Cross Less Charismatic Than Other Pens?


adamselene

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I have a Cross Lapis Lazuli in blue that my wife gave me for a gift about ten years ago. It's really beautiful with little specks of gold flake in the lapis. The two-tone nib is beautiful and it writes like butter. I don't use it much due to it's weight, but it's a very nice pen. That being said, I prefer my Pelican M400 and MB 144 - they're lighter and just as smooth writing.

 

- Mike

Edited by mikefromsac
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Let's see. How to answer this without breaking forum rules?

 

I got nothing... headsmack.gif

“ I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant”  Alan Greenspan

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After living through the Battle of Business Schools, this is what I remember: Cross became the oooo, ahhh thing you had to have to prove that you were a Business Person in about 1975. You cooly took out your slim Cross and proceeded to write whatever profound things were expected and that was that. This continued through the 1980's the golden age of Everybody's Business. Cross came out with the black model (only lightly trimmed with gold and much cheaper), the 10k pen was very looked down on, and since everyone had one (MBA school, anyone?) Yawn...ho hum. Since everyone's been laid off now, what's the point? That started happening in the late 1980's and still is part of the landscape. I just found a nice pair of Cross Pen/Pencils in my desk along with my fountain pens. I took out the fountain pens to re-furbish but not the Crosses. Go figure. They will undoubtedly come back.


 It's for Yew!bastardchildlil.jpg

 

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For me I don't like how narrow or small in girth their pens typically are.

 

The metal bodies are not the problem, and where they are made has no bearing to me, as long as it was made well, and yes the Chinese can make a fine product. Ever heard the term....fine china.

 

When I look for a fountain pen I look for something that is, I'm not sure how to explain, maybe artistic. Something that just jumps out and say this is the pen you want. Pick me up and caress me and write beautiful words. Cross lacks this.

 

Cross is not the only company that has this problem.

 

Even some Montblanc pens lack this, but Cross has it cross it's entire line.

 

But that's just me.

 

Cramer

 

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

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For me I don't like how narrow or small in girth their pens typically are.

 

The metal bodies are not the problem, and where they are made has no bearing to me, as long as it was made well, and yes the Chinese can make a fine product. Ever heard the term....fine china.

 

When I look for a fountain pen I look for something that is, I'm not sure how to explain, maybe artistic. Something that just jumps out and say this is the pen you want. Pick me up and caress me and write beautiful words. Cross lacks this.

 

Cross is not the only company that has this problem.

 

Even some Montblanc pens lack this, but Cross has it cross it's entire line.

 

But that's just me.

 

Cramer

 

 

Both my Cross Apogee pens (red and a sterling silver one) received comments from people at work about how nice they looked. My MB 145, Pelikan M600, and other more charasmatic pens did not get a mention or much notice like my Cross. It's not that Cross is less charasmatic, but rather most people who buy a Cross, use it exclusively because they write great and last forever, so they dont look around or fuss over other pens. Go to Amazon under reviews and you will see more praises for the Townsend and Century II than most other pen brands.

Edited by max dog
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I did not mean to imply that Cross pens are not great writer or are inferior pens that are not reliable. I was trying to say I am not attracted to certain pens. If I am not attracted to a pen then the chances that I will own it slim to none.

 

Example, my first fountain pen was a Monteverde Invincia Black Tie Fountain Pen. Why that pen? Well when I decided to buy my first fountain pen I could only find pens in my local area at Office Depot and Staples. So of the few choices that I had why this one? Because I am a car nut and I thought this pen was cool with its weave pattern that reminded me of carbon fiber. None of the Parker or Cross pens floated my boat as the saying goes. Looks like carbon fiber, is that a good reason to buy a pen, probably not, but it did get me into fountain pens.

 

The Monteverde was Ok but it wasn't the best quality and I could only post the cap for a few seconds before it fell off. It did not feel right with out the cap posted so I looked for some thing more.

 

Then I came across the Lamy Al-Star, if I saw it in a mag I probably would not have purchased it, looked to cheap. However in person it was an interesting aluminum pen with a unique look. Maybe not the best reasons to buy but none the less I eventually purchased many more in various colors.

 

When I recieved an end of project bonus from work I congratulated my self with one of the coolest looking pens I had seen so far, the blue of this Pen look unbelievably deep. Montblanc name this Starwalker properly when they named it Cool Blue. So with my windfall I was able to afford this typically out of reach fountain pen.

 

I hear a lot of people talk about Montblanc 146 and 149 Fountain Pens, even if I could afford this pen I probably would never buy this pen because, just like the Cross, it just does nothing to stir my soul. But when I came across the Montblanc Boheme Duo fountain pen in Pireoutte with Lilac Stone. If you have not seen this pen in person, Wow, I encourage all to stop in and see this pen. I fell in love with this pen and saved all my extra money til I had enough to by this pen. I use this pen all the time. Not only does it look good it is buttery smooth.

 

My Last pen purchase was a Delta Dolcevita Medium Pencil in Terra Cotta Orange. Beautiful, just beautiful.

 

I also bought a Visconti Rembrandt Fountain Pen because the Purple was mesmerizing. Cost was also reasonable for the quality, best steel tip fountain pen that I have used thus far.

 

Of course there is always an exception to the rule, the type of pen I described above, the Montblanc that I said I would not buy, well I did end up buying one similar. I bought my wife a Montblanc Meisterstuck LeGrand Platnium pencil. My wife likes things that are plain, she would not like the Delta or my Boheme because they are too fancy. I happen to get a stupendous deal on that Montblanc because they apperently had it on display for quite a while and were will to make me an offer I could not refuse.

 

So as you can see, I am motivated buy how a pen makes me feel more so than how it works. I hope this clears things up.

 

End of Line

 

Cramer

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought it over and have a couple of opinions.

First, perception of Cross as a less than status symbol. They make a very good "value" pen/pencil set. Honestly, for $20 you can get a very good writing set. They do not have the panache of top line names, but many cannot afford those.

Second, they have allowed a slip in quality from time to time. My last new one, an Aventure, has already stripped the threads. However, my last Century 2 is built like a rock.

Comparing the more expensive pens to pens in the same price brackets reveals that Cross can compete, but because of the lower end pieces they have hurt their name's reputation. I love my Pelikan 215 but will not carry it in my work environment, however, my ATX's have survived blows that would have crushed a lesser built pen.

Comparatively, look at Mont Blanc, they are now riding the loss of esteem because they let go of their primary goal of building a superb pen and rode the brand name. Looking at many who post on FPN, it is sad to see that loss. Cross has shown that in their own brand and hopefully can reclaim the overall good reputation they once held.

Let courage rise with danger, and strength to strength oppose.

There is no snooze button on a cat wanting breakfast.

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I live in a society where metal pens are regarded higher than plastic. And people here don't actually know that there exist such things as "celluloid" or resin, if we own such pens, they'd think its cheap plastic and they'd not regard them as well. Thus, when I buy a precious pen, I buy metal, the shinier finishes, and I prefer owning Cross or MB, though there are just a few metal models in MB.

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One of my first FP's was a Cross Townsend I bought while on a business trip in Ohio. I knew very little at the time about fountain pens but really liked the way it wrote.

 

Today, many fancy pens later, I still see it as a very reliable pen and use it in my rotation. Don't know about or care about its status thanks,

 

Post Script

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I absolutely loved my ATX but eventually I found I liked others...

Cross does give price for performance but that kinda of thing

doesn't appeal to us especially when we want fancier stuff....

Even as their things are made in China today, I find that the

ballpoint refills are very good. I still have a Century Ballpoint,

as well as a ATX ballpoint left from a few years ago... :thumbup:

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The Cross Century was always better as a ballpoint than as a fountain pen, but their biggest failing to me is that they are too slim for my fat fingers. It's a shame, because the ballpoints were always smooth writers.

 

I'm more partial to the Cross Solo, which was a simpler pen that didn't aspire to being pocket jewelry. Plus the barrels are a little thicker, which makes them easier on my fingers.

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though it may be true that cross does not have the brand image of the other makers which they developed due to to heavy marketing and brand promotion, usually everybody will agree that cross makes very good pens. i dont think that anybody can beat them in the bp market, also their refills are long lasting and quite good without any skipping. they also have a lifetime mechanical warranty which covers almost everything that can go wrong and also offer friendly warranty services. in short they really stand behind their product.

 

i like cross pens because i they are not too fat or heavy. they dont hang down in my pocket. they are easy to use and i have never had any problems with them for the last 10 years. they still work well and they have a sleek and elegant look.

 

rgds.

 

krishna.

ladies and gentlemen write with fountain pens only.

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After the Townsend was released, which was a slight modernization of a 1930s design (and probably the high watermark of Cross design and build), Cross pens departed from their traditional classic & timeless look with the ATX/Apogee, and virtually everything they released after that point became funkier and cheaper in every way. Their image went from a classy US-made pen to a mass-market cheap product. Their extremely thin metal-cased pens were not fashionable when fatter plastic pens became normal, but Cross pursued the cheap end of the fat pen market, seeming to target the high-end part of the pen display in the big-box office supply stores. Then they sent production to China, which meant a permanent commitment to the low-end of the mass-market scale. So they went from instantly-recognizable and traditional pens made in the US to cheaper pens made in China. No surprises, but sad.

Edited by JML
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The corporate gift/award market has probably been a bit of a double-edged sword for Cross.

 

If you look back to the late 1970's/early 1980's, when Sheaffer and Parker were losing their luster as the "premium" pen companies in the US, it made good business sense for Cross to charge into that market. And charge in they did. For those of us who have more than one Cross bp/mp set, I'm willing to bet that each of us has at least one set bearing the corporate logo of an employer/client/customer affixed to the clip. When you were employed by that company, having a Cross set with the corporate logo was a bit of prestige (the lesser among us had to suffer with the Jotter bp/mp in their pocket). Once you left the company, you really didn't want to be seen using a pen with your former employer's logo welded to the clip, so into a drawer it went. And there it stayed.

 

Me and the Missus will go, on occasion, to a house or estate sale. I always ask if there are any pens in the offerings. Unfortunately, some sumgai seems to have always "plundered" the box before I get there, so I typically find myself looking into a small shoebox of various stickpens, adpens, and, of course, a couple of Cross pens or pencils with some corporate logo welded on the clip.

 

Still, what goes around comes around. Our older son, who, as a graduating senior, is doing the job application/interview round these days, likes to borrow my trusty Parker 45 Flighter (gold trim) bp to take with him on interviews. Probably due to being lectured by his father (guilty as charged) that it is bad form to take a cheap pen with a hotel logo with you on an interview, he likes the idea of a "class" pen in his pocket. Back when I graduated from college, a Parker 45 set was the gift from the elderly relatives who didn't know what's "current"; the "cool" people gave you the Cross set. Enough time has now passed that the lowly 45 Flighter set looks "cool" to a new generation. Don't tell him, but the old man has acquired a NOS Parker 45 Flighter set as his "personal" gift for his son on graduation day.

 

Cross might also have this "rediscovery"

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Someone used the word 'pocket jewellery' and in my mind that is indeed where Cross has made some mistakes:

The caps. Too big to comfortable put in a shirt pocket (Townsend!,), finicky clips (Verve).

My Townsends are among the best writers, but the humongous caps always make me select another pen in the last minute just before I leave house.

And I think it would have to be the Townsend that is the one to pick up the challenge...

Latest additions: Aurora Dante Inferno (B), Graf Von Faber Castell Classic Wood Ebony (OM), La Couronne Du Comte Willem van Oranje (M), Montblanc Writers Edition Cervantes (M), Aurora Optima Cento Riflessi Limited Edition (B)

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I bought my first Cross Century fountain pen in 1980. 10K gold filled, 14K fine nib. Still have it. Occasionally use it. The only objection I have ever had to it is that it gets ink on my left middle finger when I use it, but then a lot of pens do that. It's a fine pen.

 

In the 1990s every Tom, Dick and Harry carried Montblanc in their pocket to the point that I felt like throwing mine away. A former coworker still has a NOS MB 149, NOS because he carried it every day with never a drop of ink. Every other resident of the corporate or governmental Potemkin village had one, so why not him?

 

Any make of pen can go through this. Montblanc has, however, used more effective marketing and has produced a bunch of dustables that appeal to the well-off. The MB pens also have a long heritage of pen production. They have a reputation for producing fine pens, and not just piston fillers. The 144s and 145s are C/C pens.

 

So, what's with Cross? Possibly Cross just needs to win over pen users, one user at a time, over a long time. Maybe they need limited taste editions.

 

As far as filling systems go, everyone has a favorite. The piston filler might hold more ink, but Parker's aerometric P51 is a longevity king. Piston fillers have needed work at about the 25 year mark for me. P51 aero, 62 years and counting. Cross converters have lasted about 10 years for me. The easy availability of the converters and the ease of replacement make Cross C/C pens my favorite, along with the MB 144 C/C filler. Both about as good, and priced similarly back in the day. All the rest have to be sent off for repair, and many now languish in my junk drawer. Still use the Cross from time to time. There is a MB piston filler in the junk drawer. Been there over 15 years. Rambling on . . .

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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Possibly Cross just needs to win over pen users, one user at a time, over a long time.

 

They won me over. Before I got my Apogee I used to look down on Cross as ugly, cheap and boring but I must say my Apogee is none of that and neither is my Suavage. If you have never tried one of the modern Cross FPs please do. They are excellent values for the money. Other than Lamy I don't believe there is another company selling 18kt gold nibbed pens for under $200 MSRP. Those nibs are great. Very smooth with some flex, I might call them flexy verging on semi-flex or at a minimum soft. Fit and finish are top notch and they are the only company that back their pens with a full lifetime guarantee regardless if you are the original owner.

 

Don't judge until you've owned one and you won't regret it :)

Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, Vac Jr. Black, 51 Aero Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 Aero Demi Black, 51 Aero Demi Teal, 51 Aero Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Deb. Black, Challenger Black, 51 Aero Midnight, Vac. Emerald Jr., Challenger Gray Pearl, 51 Vac Black, Duofold Int. Black, Duofold Jr. Red.

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Well, I like my Cross Century pens, and I recently came by a couple of Cross Solos in an ebay lot of Esterbrooks. The Solos seem better than my Pelikan M200s, and even at retail I think you could get a complete collection for about the price of an M200. Lest anybody claim a nib advantage for the M200, the Solo is friction fit and can accept one of my Montblanc 144 spare nibs. Easy change and works quite well.

 

The only trouble with Cross (and Parker and others) is their not being USA made these days. I don't care about quality issues, it's about lost jobs here. Their vintage pens are good. Forget the lectures about globalism. Yatta...yatta...yatta...

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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I have various Cross fountain pens, Century I, Century II, Townsend, and Apogee all in sterling silver, as also a chrome Townsend (Medallist) and they all are a pleasure to write with and in my opinion not at all unattractive. As regards the Century I do find that they are rather slim at least for me, even though I have small hands, but they had fantastically smooth nibs which make writing with them a pleasure. I think that the nibs on most of them were identical to the ones used on Pelikans (same supplier), so they cannot be at all bad. However, I was always a fan of Cross pens and still am. The ones I have are all solidly built and write well with a good and steady flow.

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Frankly, I think Cross was done in by the ubiquitus Century ballpoints and pencils. Just think of all the Cross pen and pencil sets given as graduation presents over the years. Now, having long been rejected, lost, or otherwise sidelined, they're seemingly everywhere. But let's back up one step further, why is that so? - because they were a pen/pencil that was reasonably affordable and had a modest degree of classiness - perfect for a newly minted high school graduate (back in the day that is). But what I feel Cross failed to foresee was that writers, pen owners, tastes in pen styles, as well as the wallet, matures relatively quickly. Having saturated the market with a modestly mediocre product, aimed at writers just starting out (a success for them actually) how can you hope to be taken seriously and attract the attention of mature users who want a higher end product? Difficult to do when you've already made a nich for yourself, the very same niche that defines them (probably not what they set out to do). Someone who knows Cross's history in the market could probably elaborate otherwise, but that's how it comes across to me.

"What? What's that? WHAT?!!! SPEAK UP, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" - Ludwig van Beethoven.

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