Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink


  • Please log in to reply
419 replies to this topic

#361 Jared

Jared

    Broad Italics & Stubs

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 872 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 26 August 2013 - 18:19

After using this for nearly a year...I may have found ink Nirvana!  It's definitely

not Diamine Registrars, as I initially guessed, but more like a darker R&K Salix (one of my favorites), but with less feathering on cheap paper.

 

Thank you, Sandy1 for your review and recommendation.


Edited by Jared, 26 August 2013 - 19:22.


Sponsored Content

#362 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 11 September 2013 - 15:32

Sandy1,

 

I recently received a postcard written with this ink.  The price with shipping is very tempting.  All in all, thanks for the wonderful review. :thumbup:

 

Hi,

 

You're most welcome!

 

This thread has been greatly enriched by the ongoing contributions of many Members - far beyond the Review itself. :)

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#363 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 11 September 2013 - 15:36

After using this for nearly a year...I may have found ink Nirvana!  It's definitely

not Diamine Registrars, as I initially guessed, but more like a darker R&K Salix (one of my favorites), but with less feathering on cheap paper.

 

Thank you, Sandy1 for your review and recommendation.

 

Hi,

 

You're so very welcome!

 

I'm glad that Inky Nirvana is a sustainable state. After all it does take some casting about to find an ink that is 'just right'.

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#364 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 11 September 2013 - 15:50

Hi all,

 

I received a back channel communiqué with the following information on ESSRI:

 

  • Shelf Life & Storage:
    • ESSRI should be good for 2 to 3 years, not 12 to 18 months.
    • It is important to store the ink at a reasonably even temperature, away from a heat source.
    • Direct sunshine will cause the ink to break down and throw a sediment.
  • ESSRI is acidic, with a pH ~2.0.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 11 September 2013 - 15:54.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#365 nickapos

nickapos

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
  • Flag:

Posted 11 September 2013 - 17:10

Hi all,

 

I received a back channel communiqué with the following information on ESSRI:

 

  • Shelf Life & Storage:
    • ESSRI should be good for 2 to 3 years, not 12 to 18 months.
    • It is important to store the ink at a reasonably even temperature, away from a heat source.
    • Direct sunshine will cause the ink to break down and throw a sediment.
  • ESSRI is acidic, with a pH ~2.0.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Wow PH 2 is very acidic, I wonder what would be the effects on the pen after a long period of use of ESSRI


Nick Apostolakis
Msc in IT, University of Glasgow
GPG ID: 0xBDF1848D
e-mail: nickapos@oncrete.gr
Web Site: http://nick.oncrete.gr

#366 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 11 September 2013 - 18:02



 

Wow PH 2 is very acidic, I wonder what would be the effects on the pen after a long period of use of ESSRI

 

Hi,

 

Wow! I'm surprised that you consider pH 2.0 'very acidic'. ;)

 

There's been some discussion on the relevance of the pH of FP inks. My impression is that such a pH is not beyond that of other inks in the market, but the dearth of current accurate [post-REACH*] data makes that statement open to a wider discussion in the Inky Thoughts Forum.

 

I also have the impression that pH of ink is most relevant to those amongst us who mix inks or endeavour to protect inks from wee critters by adding biocides such as phenol.

 

As to the effect on a pen, the current consensus seems to be that modern stainless steel nibs and materials made to construct pens can easily withstand such acidity. Indeed, it appears there is more concern about the 'safety' of strongly alkaline inks.

 

Being a bit fussy about pen care, I raised a concern about the reaction of acidic ink with section rings / ferrules and cap internals made from less robust metals, but as that didn't trigger a hue & cry, I thought it was just another of my idle musings.**

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

* Wiki REACH http://en.wikipedia....fety_assessment

** MBBlBk Post № 33 http://www.fountainp...lack/?p=2470476,


Edited by Sandy1, 11 September 2013 - 19:07.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#367 Mags

Mags

    Life is more vibrant with a fountain pen and a bold wet ink line

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,233 posts
  • Location:Saskatoon/Regina, Canada
  • Flag:

Posted 11 September 2013 - 20:17

I am not a chemist but slightly acidic paper and a slightly alkid ph ink might actually result in the written word lasting a little longer.


Rob Maguire (Plse call me "M or Mags" like my friends do...)I use a Tablet, Apple Pencil and a fountain pen. Targas, Sailor, MB, Visconti all wonderful.

#368 nickapos

nickapos

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:46

 

Hi,

 

Wow! I'm surprised that you consider pH 2.0 'very acidic'. ;)

 

There's been some discussion on the relevance of the pH of FP inks. My impression is that such a pH is not beyond that of other inks in the market, but the dearth of current accurate [post-REACH*] data makes that statement open to a wider discussion in the Inky Thoughts Forum.

 

I also have the impression that pH of ink is most relevant to those amongst us who mix inks or endeavour to protect inks from wee critters by adding biocides such as phenol.

 

As to the effect on a pen, the current consensus seems to be that modern stainless steel nibs and materials made to construct pens can easily withstand such acidity. Indeed, it appears there is more concern about the 'safety' of strongly alkaline inks.

 

Being a bit fussy about pen care, I raised a concern about the reaction of acidic ink with section rings / ferrules and cap internals made from less robust metals, but as that didn't trigger a hue & cry, I thought it was just another of my idle musings.**

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

* Wiki REACH http://en.wikipedia....fety_assessment

** MBBlBk Post № 33 http://www.fountainp...lack/?p=2470476,

 

Hello Sandy, i am not a chemist either but a pH of 2 is by definition very acidic, even if such levels may be common amongst inks

 

at the pH of 2 is for example Hydrochloric acid, which is considered a very strong inorganic acid. I do not know if the material used with pens can handle the acidity, it is entirely possible that it can, but I am certain that if you mix inks of this acidity, you may get very strong a reaction, especially if the other inks are in the alkaline range and you certainly have to wear protective equipment like glasses and gloves. It will also affect paper. Isn't acid free papers supposed to be better for archival purposes? What will be the result if you use a strong acid on a sheet of paper, even in low quantities over a number of years...

 

copy and paste from wikipedia

 

Strong acids and bases

Strong acids and bases are compounds that, for practical purposes, are completely dissociated in water. Under normal circumstances this means that the concentration of hydrogen ions in acidic solution can be taken to be equal to the concentration of the acid. The pH is then equal to minus the logarithm of the concentration value. Hydrochloric acid (HCl) is an example of a strong acid. The pH of a 0.01M solution of HCl is equal to −log10(0.01), that is, pH = 2. Sodium hydroxide, NaOH, is an example of a strong base. The p[OH] value of a 0.01M solution of NaOH is equal to −log10(0.01), that is, p[OH] = 2. From the definition of p[OH] above, this means that the pH is equal to about 12. For solutions of sodium hydroxide at higher concentrations the self-ionization equilibrium must be taken into account.


Nick Apostolakis
Msc in IT, University of Glasgow
GPG ID: 0xBDF1848D
e-mail: nickapos@oncrete.gr
Web Site: http://nick.oncrete.gr

#369 Sleepy

Sleepy

    Science

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2013 - 22:33

Hello Sandy, i am not a chemist either but a pH of 2 is by definition very acidic, even if such levels may be common amongst inks
 
at the pH of 2 is for example Hydrochloric acid, which is considered a very strong inorganic acid. I do not know if the material used with pens can handle the acidity, it is entirely possible that it can, but I am certain that if you mix inks of this acidity, you may get very strong a reaction, especially if the other inks are in the alkaline range and you certainly have to wear protective equipment like glasses and gloves. It will also affect paper. Isn't acid free papers supposed to be better for archival purposes? What will be the result if you use a strong acid on a sheet of paper, even in low quantities over a number of years...
 
copy and paste from wikipedia
 

Strong acids and bases
Strong acids and bases are compounds that, for practical purposes, are completely dissociated in water. Under normal circumstances this means that the concentration of hydrogen ions in acidic solution can be taken to be equal to the concentration of the acid. The pH is then equal to minus the logarithm of the concentration value. Hydrochloric acid (HCl) =is an example of a strong acid. The pH of a 0.01M solution of HCl is equal to −log10(0.01), that is, pH = 2. Sodium hydroxide, NaOH, is an example of a strong base. The p[OH] value of a 0.01M solution of NaOH is equal to −log10(0.01), that is, p[OH] = 2. From the definition of p[OH] above, this means that the pH is equal to about 12. For solutions of sodium hydroxide at higher concentrations the self-ionization equilibrium must be taken into account.


The HCl discussion is misleading. Yes, the Wikipedia text shows HCl with a pH of 2, but 0.01M HCl is really not a very concentrated solution of the acid. A comparison of the ink to the 'strong acid' is therefore not quite the full story.

#370 mhosea

mhosea

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,182 posts
  • Location:Boston, MA
  • Flag:

Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:56

Yes, it's "quite" acidic.  Perhaps now we can argue about the semantics of "quite" so that the discussion can get even more pointless.  It's more acidic than typical water-based dye inks and presumably gets even further down there if you let it evaporate in the feed a little.  Your pen can probably take it.  

 

The fact that IG inks have been used for centuries, however, should not be particularly comforting, since less corrosive IG inks had to be developed for use in FPs.


I know my id is "mhosea", but you can call me Mike. It's an old Unix thing.


#371 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:27

 

Hello Sandy, i am not a chemist either but a pH of 2 is by definition very acidic, even if such levels may be common amongst inks

 

at the pH of 2 is for example Hydrochloric acid, which is considered a very strong inorganic acid. I do not know if the material used with pens can handle the acidity, it is entirely possible that it can, but I am certain that if you mix inks of this acidity, you may get very strong a reaction, especially if the other inks are in the alkaline range and you certainly have to wear protective equipment like glasses and gloves. It will also affect paper. Isn't acid free papers supposed to be better for archival purposes? What will be the result if you use a strong acid on a sheet of paper, even in low quantities over a number of years...

 

<snip>

 

Hi,

 

I do not intend to make light of your concerns. I apologise if I have offended you in any way.

 

As the chemists at work remind me, "Sandy, you're not a chemist. Get out of our lab."

 

The pH value is only one property of a substance; and different ink ingredients may react with different pen materials in a different way. I assume that any ink ingredients would be chosen with the intent of being 'pen safe'. (Especially if marketed in the litigious-prone USA.)

 

I agree that one should be careful when mixing inks. Even though the worst I've created was a dreadful gritty sludge that seemed to have a life of its own, I always wear eye protection.*

 

I was also struck by the apparent conundrum of how an acidic ink can be considered Archival. 

To quote from Member gmrza @ Post № 9 http://www.fountainp...inks/?p=2420375:

". . . modern IG inks are more likely to have a formulation which is stoichiometrically** correct. This was not the case for historical inks - often there was excess acid which was not consumed in the oxidation of the IG compound. Excess acid is of course a bad thing.
A further factor is the kind of acid used. A lot of historical inks used sulphuric acid, whereas modern inks tend to use hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid is a gas in solution, which will evaporate.
As a result, modern IG inks are less likely to damage paper than historical inks were. . . ."

 

Enjoy!

 

Bye,

S1

__ __

* Full kit description @ Post № 7 http://www.fountainp...inks/?p=1879848)  

**Wiki 'stoichiometry' http://en.wikipedia....i/Stoichiometry


Edited by Sandy1, 13 September 2013 - 08:34.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#372 nickapos

nickapos

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
  • Flag:

Posted 13 September 2013 - 18:29

Don't worry Sandy, I am not offended in any way.

 

I was just surprised to find these pH values in a modern ink. I have done enough lab work in the past, although not very recently, to know that a pH value of 2 is very low, and have almost ruined a desk and a carpet in some experiments of my own, hence my concerns about strong reactions when mixing chemical stuff.

 

Regarding the pH level in inks, I have found this link of Nathan Tardiff of Noodler, who definitely states, that pH neutrality in inks is very important for pen maintenance.

 

Its good to know that HCl will eventually evaporate, causing little to no damage to the paper.


Edited by nickapos, 13 September 2013 - 18:32.

Nick Apostolakis
Msc in IT, University of Glasgow
GPG ID: 0xBDF1848D
e-mail: nickapos@oncrete.gr
Web Site: http://nick.oncrete.gr

#373 unclebrat

unclebrat

    Sleeping Peacefully

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Flag:

Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:28

Hi Sandy,

 

Do you know if the limited shelf life of ESSRI is due to precipitants or for biological considerations?

 

Brad


Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

#374 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 14 September 2013 - 14:05



Hi Sandy,

 

Do you know if the limited shelf life of ESSRI is due to precipitants or for biological considerations?

 

Brad

 

Hi Brad,

 

I don't think that precipitants / sediment are a problem for shelf life. Just ensure they are not roused or drawn into a pen.

 

From the biological side, to avoid contamination of the main volume of ink by the pen during charging I suggested using a small filler bottle. I also suggested that the addition of biocides might be advantageous, but I don't envision a problem if the ink arrives free of wee critters. (To date there have been no sightings of swimmers floaters or sinkers.)

 

One concern is oxidation, so in the Review I suggested decanting the ink from the [porous] plastic tanker bottle in which it is shipped into smaller topped-up glass bottles. That suggestion was subsequently restated, refined & discussed : http://www.fountainp...-ink/?p=2164772 onward.

 

To prepare storage bottles and spiking inoculating the ink with biocide if so desired, we thank Member lapis for his sage advice :

http://www.fountainp...-ink/?p=2174207

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 14 September 2013 - 14:30.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#375 Sinistral1

Sinistral1

    Ink Minion

  • FPN Donor - Iridium

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,022 posts
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
  • Flag:

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:12

Whew, I made it through the first six pages before I caved and went to the end!

Having just spent an obscene amount of money on a bottle of Akkerman #8 diep duinwater blauw that is apparently not an iron gall ink but is a beautiful blue black with nice shading, I think I'll simply order samples of the iron gall inks that Goulet has and play with them for a while. Too bad they don't sell ESSRI so that I could get a sample of it, too!

I have to say that this entire group of people who make up the FPN are a breath of sweet smelling fresh air after working 8 hours a day with coworkers who are more concerned about their own sense of importance and the social aspects of work than learning everything they can so that their work is complete and accurate and done right - so that the employees we are helping don't have to deal with screwed up data in their pay records when they retire. I work for the second largest "company" in the U.S. as far as number of employees go. And, you express yourselves with tact, humor and thoughtfulness - I love it! In a world where success = quantity instead of quality, I come here to relax among people who can truly appreciate the exquisitly finer details of pens, nibs, inks, papers, et al. Many, many thanks!!

Edited by Sinistral1, 16 September 2013 - 04:16.

Breathe.  Take one step at a time.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  You're not getting older, you are only moving through time.  Be calm and positive.


#376 Bemo

Bemo

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 423 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:31

I've used Lamy blue black which I believe still has some IG content, Mount Blanc Midnight Blue, and R & K Salix. I like the Lamy and the Salix but am absolutely smitten by the ESSRI. I'll write nonsense sentences just to watch the ink change colors. I'm hoping to order some of the Pharmacists wonderful looking inks as well. Best of luck in your search.



#377 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:22

I am not a chemist but slightly acidic paper and a slightly alkid ph ink might actually result in the written word lasting a little longer.

 

Hi,

 

From a common sense point of view, I would agree. Yet I do not consider pH itself to be of primary importance, rather the physical stability of the substances in the ink+paper combo to be more important. For example, I consider papers made from cotton or linen to be more stable than those made from wood pulp.

 

For common paper, there are some which have an alkaline reserve to off-set the accumulation of acid within the paper, which would seem likely to neutralise any residual acid in the ink.

" . . . cellulose itself generates acids as it ages, including formic, acetic, lactic, and oxalic acids. Measurable quantities of these acids were observed to form under ambient conditions within weeks of the paper's manufacture."*

 

We have the benefit of numerous discussions of longevity, with a goodly number in the Inky Thoughts Forum and the Paper & Pen Paraphernalia Forum.

 

Bye,

S1

__ __

* http://www.loc.gov/p...tebrochure.html


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#378 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,551 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 16 September 2013 - 13:21

If the 'high' Ph level bothers you, clean the pen every three weeks or month.

That should keep all problems away.

Just treat it as a high maintenance ink and enjoy.

 

From my understanding....unfortunately, I'm not English, so don't have  'old' English inks in my mind. I read somewhere on the com, that some large English ink company that was bought up some 30 or so years ago by a conglomerate was closed down, and one of the managers managed to get the original ink that is now ESSR as part of his settlement.

I don’t remember the name of the ink. To a Britton of sixty the name would be as well known as Carter of the US was once known.

 

So ESSR is an older ink, with a simple name now.

I don't worry about it, as long as I clean my pens regularly.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 16 September 2013 - 13:22.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#379 encremental

encremental

    sprightly

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,331 posts
  • Location:Fulham, London UK
  • Flag:

Posted 17 September 2013 - 19:27

It's Stephens ink!

 

They don't get much older than this - 'Inky' Stephens was a friend of the poet Keats and pretty much invented what we know as modern ink (or 'writing fluid' ) in 1832. There is a small museum in his house in North London which celebrates his achievements. I used Stephens ink all through my childhood and have fond memories of the peculiarly intense Radiant Blue, which Edelstein Sapphire strongly resembles, 

 

John



#380 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 18 September 2013 - 16:50

Whew, I made it through the first six pages before I caved and went to the end!

Having just spent an obscene amount of money on a bottle of Akkerman #8 diep duinwater blauw that is apparently not an iron gall ink but is a beautiful blue black with nice shading, I think I'll simply order samples of the iron gall inks that Goulet has and play with them for a while. Too bad they don't sell ESSRI so that I could get a sample of it, too!

I have to say that this entire group of people who make up the FPN are a breath of sweet smelling fresh air after working 8 hours a day with coworkers who are more concerned about their own sense of importance and the social aspects of work than learning everything they can so that their work is complete and accurate and done right - so that the employees we are helping don't have to deal with screwed up data in their pay records when they retire. I work for the second largest "company" in the U.S. as far as number of employees go. And, you express yourselves with tact, humor and thoughtfulness - I love it! In a world where success = quantity instead of quality, I come here to relax among people who can truly appreciate the exquisitly finer details of pens, nibs, inks, papers, et al. Many, many thanks!!

 

Hi,

You've most welcome!

I applaud your tenacity to read the Review and the subsequent 374 Posts.

The GPC stocks R&K's Salix & Scabiosa, which I think are a great introduction to I-G inks. As much as we can show a raft of scans and chat at length on FPN, there's nothing like using an I-G ink to experience their charisma.

I think you are spot on about FPN members. As diverse as we are, we take pleasure in sharing knowledge experience & opinions, which makes FPN a very convivial site indeed.

Bye,
S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.







Sponsored Content




|