Could The Twsbi Roc Be Offensive?

[macaddicted]

Did anyone bring a ROC 100 pen into PRC (the mainland China)?

 

Using the pen to sign documents in the PRC is icing on the cake.

[daniel0731ex]

Just to add that the even the emblem on the pen is not very obvious anyways:

 

 

Unless you stretch over to look at the cap:

 

http://www.thewritingdesk.co.uk/twsbi/diamond_roc.jpg

 

 

 

At least it's not as obvious as this:

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_juv4wKFlvzQ/TSrHPC4v37I/AAAAAAAAAnM/2vT_gXSIJ-U/s1600/lamy%2Broc%2B100%2Ba.jpg

Edited September 18, 2011 by daniel0731ex

[ExcaliburZ]

Did anyone bring a ROC 100 pen into PRC (the mainland China)? I am not sure if the communist regime and its apparatus are going to confiscate it when you use this pen to sign something at Customs.

It is being sold in China.

[ExcaliburZ]

uhm....... the Republic of China is a democratic system..... the CPC or Communist Party of China is communist china. (even though they are really not that communist anymore)

 

CCP - Chinese Communist Party, just for accuracy.

[SJH]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

[HeartMan]

Since the 540 is similar in size and capacity as a Pelikan M800, I think if your mom is still concerned about offending ex-communists (or undercover communists) in your school, she should get you the Pelikan.

[macaddicted]

Since the 540 is similar in size and capacity as a Pelikan M800, I think if your mom is still concerned about offending ex-communists (or undercover communists) in your school, she should get you the Pelikan.

 

Must… not… invoke… Godwin's Law…

[daniel0731ex]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

 

The 100th annivesary since the establishment of the democratic constitution of China (formerly), now Taiwan specifically as mainland China is no longer a free state.

Edited September 18, 2011 by daniel0731ex

[speedy]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

 

first of all I really like that video, hahaha!

 

 

I am from Taiwan where The Republic of China is sited now, the place I was born. 2011/10/10 is the 100th birthday of The Republic of China; founded by Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, the first demarcated country in Asia

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sun_Yat-sen. due to the war, the government moved to Taiwan.....

Now a day, ROC and PROC are quite friendly to each other, the two governments just must keep face on this naming issue, other then that I don't think their people care too much about it, happy good life is more important for all of us.

 

there is no political reason I made this pen, but just to celebrate the 100th birthday of the country I was born that's all.

Edited September 18, 2011 by speedy

[Nonsensical]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

 

Given that my father loves to talk about all of this, much to my chagrin...

 

The TWSBI ROC (Republic of China) pen celebrates the Republic of China that is actually Taiwan. I know, it doesn't make much sense...

 

Essentially, there were two parties within China, post WWII, I believe. One was the Chinese Communist Party(中国共产党)and the other was the (国民党). I have no idea how to translate that into English, so don't even ask... I will check a dictionary...perhaps.

 

Anyway, to sum it up, the CCP drove the 国民党 out of China, and they fled to Taiwan, where they set up base, hoping to one day take back the mainland. Hence, they formed the Republic of China in Taiwan.

 

Years passed, that never happened, so now Taiwan considers itself to be the Republic of China, a country separate from the People's Republic of China.

 

If I got anything wrong, please correct me, I don't really trust my dad anyway. I can't say that I paid much attention while he was telling us all of that either. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Speedy beat me to it. Oh well.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Nonsensical

[SJH]

Many thanks Speedy, and quite an interesting discussion.

+1 'happy life is more important!'

 

And thanks for your fantastic pens etc Speedy.

 

Good on ya mate,

Best regards,

Steve.

[daniel0731ex]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

 

Given that my father loves to talk about all of this, much to my chagrin...

 

The TWSBI ROC (Republic of China) pen celebrates the Republic of China that is actually Taiwan. I know, it doesn't make much sense...

 

Essentially, there were two parties within China, post WWII, I believe. One was the Chinese Communist Party(中国共产党)and the other was the (国名党). I have no idea how to translate that into English, so don't even ask... I will check a dictionary...perhaps.

 

Anyway, to sum it up, the CCP drove the 国名党 out of China, and they fled to Taiwan, where they set up base, hoping to one day take back the mainland. Hence, they formed the Republic of China in Taiwan.

 

Years passed, that never happened, so now Taiwan considers itself to be the Republic of China, a country separate from the People's Republic of China.

 

If I got anything wrong, please correct me, I don't really trust my dad anyway. I can't say that I paid much attention while he was telling us all of that either. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Speedy beat me to it. Oh well.

 

國民黨 is, I think, called the KMT, translated "Chinese Nationalist Party".

 

Currently Taiwan is further divided in politics between the PFP, which want complete seperation and independence from mainland, and the KMT, who are anti-seperatist but is no longer ambitious in taking over China, as the original communist slump is now well-developed (despite Taiwan having a better head start -- perhaps due to resource limitations? Taiwan is still more developed, but only by small fractions) and too powerful to oppose.

[Lefthand_Smudge]

Do I find this pen offensive? Aesthetically yes. The mix of red clear and blue makes it look like a frankenpen.

 

As for the politics no not really. I mean if we wanted to take this to an extreme we could find the Voltaire Montblanc offensive because of his antisemitism. But to be honest if you want to find political offense in something you can if you look hard enough.

 

Sadly, this makes being Oscar Wilde's definition of a gentleman all the more difficult.

[ExcaliburZ]

Speedy, Please tell us all what the pen commemorates.

 

Many thanks and best regards,

Steve.

100 years of the Republic of China

[ExcaliburZ]

Essentially, there were two parties within China, post WWII, I believe. One was the Chinese Communist Party(中国共产党)and the other was the (国民党).

Both parties were founded before WWII and 国民党 is Kuomintang (Guomindang in pinyin) or in English the Chinese Nationalist Party.

[Louis Chen]

Hi Daniel,

 

Do you know where I can buy that Lamy pen in the photo? Thanks

 

/ Louis

 

Just to add that the even the emblem on the pen is not very obvious anyways:

 

 

Unless you stretch over to look at the cap:

 

http://www.thewritingdesk.co.uk/twsbi/diamond_roc.jpg

 

 

 

At least it's not as obvious as this:

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_juv4wKFlvzQ/TSrHPC4v37I/AAAAAAAAAnM/2vT_gXSIJ-U/s1600/lamy%2Broc%2B100%2Ba.jpg

[ggggggh]

Not at all. I'm from the mainland but I get a roc twsbi as soon as it is available on ebay.

[greencobra]

What... does everything we do have to pass some PC standpoint now...????

Can't we purchase something we like because we like it or do we now have to have our purchases OK'd by the PC Police to make sure someone is not offended by the color or the pen, or maybe the color of the ink we intend to use in that pen.....

If you like the pen, BUY IT... if someone does not like the color or thinks it makes some offensive political statement... too bad.... it is a pen

It does not have any political statement engraved on it that might offend someone...

Nothing to add here, spot on.

[mongrelnomad]

I partly grew up in mainland China in the 80s. IMO, Taiwan's development is much more impressive than mainland China's... It has seen not only economic development, but social and political development as well.

 

ROC and PRC are two very different models, irrespective of shared and divergent history. It will be very interesting how each one progresses.

 

(And no, I do not think the pen is in the slightest bit insulting...)

 

 

 

 

I am from Taiwan where The Republic of China is sited now, the place I was born. 2011/10/10 is the 100th birthday of The Republic of China; founded by Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, the first demarcated country in Asia

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sun_Yat-sen. due to the war, the government moved to Taiwan.....

Now a day, ROC and PROC are quite friendly to each other, the two governments just must keep face on this naming issue, other then that I don't think their people care too much about it, happy good life is more important for all of us.

 

there is no political reason I made this pen, but just to celebrate the 100th birthday of the country I was born that's all.

 

Happy birthday Speedy!

Edited September 18, 2011 by mongrelnomad

[raging.dragon]

I'm going to try to put this in perspective. I happen to be someone who would have been sent to the Nazi death camps - and killed - for at least two separate reasons had I lived in the Third Reich (none of the obvious ones, by the way; to be cryptic, OA, AS, and they almost certainly would have tagged me anti-social ). It is a subject which tends to offend me rather easily, as you might guess. Suggest that "Hitler was right" and I'll go off on you like a hydrogen bomb.

 

On another forum here, someone posted a picture of a pen covered in swastikas, produced to commemorate the meeting of Hitler and Mussolini in 1938. Now, that pen doesn't personally appeal to me, I'd never want to own it, but if I saw someone using it, I wouldn't immediately be offended - unless they did or said something offensive, or had so many swastika symbols all over them on so many items they were clearly trying to make a statement. Otherwise, who knows why they would own and use such a pen? Who cares?

 

Making up your mind about someone, or even getting offended, over a single item such as a pen, is something I think only a very touchy person might do. Now, if you wanted to buy that swastika pen, and you were going to be rubbing shoulders with people who had survived the camps, I would think it was pretty insensitive to expose them to those symbols. But that's a very specific situation. Even with my very real and legitimate horror of all things Nazi, I would say I'd have no reason to get offended if all you did was quietly use such a pen. For all I would know, you might be an amateur historian, interested in remembering the horrors of what had occurred by using an artifact that reminded you of them (a purpose I'd actively approve of, no matter that I don't think I'd be capable of that precise attitude myself).

 

If I can take that attitude, about a far more offensive symbol, then I really think this is a non-issue. Show this to your mother. Let her read my opinion. If that doesn't convince her, I don't know what will. The very part of my ethos which is unshakably opposed to what passed for Nazi thought is the part of me which demands I tolerate without offense any person who is not clearly causing offense. As I pointed out, there is at least one legitimate reason for using a pen which is otherwise a symbol of absolute evil. No doubt there are others. So how could I judge someone on the basis of a single, superficial point, without falling into the very mindset I so abhor? And, if it turns out the person using such a pen is doing so because they really are some neo-Nazi slime mold themselves, then I can deal with that once it becomes apparent. Not over one ambiguous signal.

 

I can see the appeal of the swastika encrusted commemorative as an historic artifact. I doubt I'd buy such a thing, and I certainly wouldn't use one in public. I wouldn't want to associate myself with a symbol of something I despise.