Review Custom Nakaya Chinkin Palmet

[araybanfan]

Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't be pleased if i had to wait for 4 months for the pen to have that level of resolution on a pen, especially on an artisan handmade product running in 4 figures. Just late last August i had enquired for a purchase, the reply came in on 31st Aug with the price 20% increase. They claim the price increase was set since 1st of Aug whereas the forum and other sources indicated otherwise. I didn't want to argue and decided to skip buying a nakaya altogether. With this post on their quality, i guess i won't be looking back.

Edited September 11, 2011 by araybanfan

[christof]

First, I am very sorry that you don't like your new (expensive) pens.

 

Second, your photography skills are excellent.

 

Third, you should go back to Nakaya and tell them what you are thinking about the pen.

 

Sometimes, I also sell pens here on FPN. When the buyer isn't happy ( this happens not often but still...) he comes back to me with his problems. For a seller, the most important thing is happy customers. So I take every pen that I did sell back for full refund. I think Nakaya will do also.

[schadowrider]

Just late last August i had enquired for a purchase, the reply came in on 31st Aug with the price 20% increase. They claim the price increase was set since 1st of Aug whereas the forum and other sources indicated otherwise.

Just wondering: were you inquiring directly with Nakaya in Japan or nibs.com the US (or maybe another source?)? I could be wrong, but during my shopping for a Nakaya in August, I'm pretty sure I saw this note already on their site in early August:

 

"Notes We revise our product prices (US $) in response to significant changes in exchange rates. However, frequent modifying the price in each product of all the web pages are being very difficult.Therefore, we cordially request you to take note that the actual prices of the product is 1.2 times the price shown in the web page. For example; 1,250 $ x 1.2 = 1,500 $ "

 

On the other hand, nibs.com was not raising the price until August 31st (maybe Nakaya had to give them a certain amount of lead time as a distributor before raising the prices; maybe nibs.com just absorbed it for the month...); it was one (of many) factor why I placed my order through nibs.com (to get the order in before the price increase) -- most of the chatter I was familiar with (there could have been some I didn't see!) was FPN members talking about getting the order in with nibs.com before their August 31st increase, not directly with Nakaya.

Edited September 12, 2011 by schadowrider

[AltecGreen]

Just late last August i had enquired for a purchase, the reply came in on 31st Aug with the price 20% increase. They claim the price increase was set since 1st of Aug whereas the forum and other sources indicated otherwise.

Just wondering: were you inquiring directly with Nakaya in Japan or nibs.com the US (or maybe another source?)? I could be wrong, but during my shopping for a Nakaya in August, I'm pretty sure I saw this note already on their site in early August:

 

"Notes We revise our product prices (US $) in response to significant changes in exchange rates. However, frequent modifying the price in each product of all the web pages are being very difficult.Therefore, we cordially request you to take note that the actual prices of the product is 1.2 times the price shown in the web page. For example; 1,250 $ x 1.2 = 1,500 $ "

 

On the other hand, nibs.com was not raising the price until August 31st (maybe Nakaya had to give them a certain amount of lead time as a distributor before raising the prices; maybe nibs.com just absorbed it for the month...); it was one (of many) factor why I placed my order through nibs.com (to get the order in before the price increase) -- most of the chatter I was familiar with (there could have been some I didn't see!) was FPN members talking about getting the order in with nibs.com before their August 31st increase, not directly with Nakaya.

 

 

You are correct. The price increase at Nakaya was on their website in early August but nibs.com was honoring the old price until Sept. 1.

[araybanfan]

I am quite certain that i didn't see the balloon pop up while roaming at the nakaya webpage during late Aug. I even made a phone call a day after my enquiry which the language barrier proved to be a fruitless attempt. When the email reply came, i thought i just missed the boat. 20% is a significant increase. I did a quick search, the forum topic:When Did The Nakaya Price Increase Kick In? https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/166386-when-did-the-nakaya-price-increase-kick-in/page__st__50 too had similar findings on early Sept. I did not enquire with nibs.com during my considerations. Prices aside given they are handmade products there are bound to be minor imperfections, the asking price for the products however should warrant a better QC especially on the expected waiting time.

 

Just late last August i had enquired for a purchase, the reply came in on 31st Aug with the price 20% increase. They claim the price increase was set since 1st of Aug whereas the forum and other sources indicated otherwise.

Just wondering: were you inquiring directly with Nakaya in Japan or nibs.com the US (or maybe another source?)? I could be wrong, but during my shopping for a Nakaya in August, I'm pretty sure I saw this note already on their site in early August:

 

"Notes We revise our product prices (US $) in response to significant changes in exchange rates. However, frequent modifying the price in each product of all the web pages are being very difficult.Therefore, we cordially request you to take note that the actual prices of the product is 1.2 times the price shown in the web page. For example; 1,250 $ x 1.2 = 1,500 $ "

 

On the other hand, nibs.com was not raising the price until August 31st (maybe Nakaya had to give them a certain amount of lead time as a distributor before raising the prices; maybe nibs.com just absorbed it for the month...); it was one (of many) factor why I placed my order through nibs.com (to get the order in before the price increase) -- most of the chatter I was familiar with (there could have been some I didn't see!) was FPN members talking about getting the order in with nibs.com before their August 31st increase, not directly with Nakaya.

Edited September 12, 2011 by araybanfan

[picautomaton]

Do you think it is possible that the pen missed out on a final stage of clear laquering to bring the surrounding surfaces to the height of the raden pieces? Just an observation based on the pics given that the gold paint work seems very close to the surface and there does not appear to be much depth to the lacquer.

[Strang]

Do you think it is possible that the pen missed out on a final stage of clear laquering to bring the surrounding surfaces to the height of the raden pieces? Just an observation based on the pics given that the gold paint work seems very close to the surface and there does not appear to be much depth to the lacquer.

 

No, I don't think there is missing laquer as the raden pieces stand a good bit taller than the surface. They appear to be less so due to bevelling.

[ethernautrix]

I really wish you had expressed your displeasure at the time of delivery. If you had explained that you thought the red would be redder (or more primary or whatever shade you wanted, something brighter) and that the raden should be flush, not raised, you could have given Nakaya the opportunity to make you happy.

 

Then again, it seems you decided to accept that you didn't get what you wanted.

 

And I certainly understand not wanting to send a pen back. I HATE THAT! When I buy an expensive pen, I expect extra quality control.

 

Anyway, not that it should be compensation, but you have that gorgeous Edison Hakumin now.

[AltecGreen]

I made a long response to this issue on another thread which has since been removed so I'll try to re-construct what I wrote.

 

 

It's very clear that Strang is not happy with his custom pen. I've been there myself with custom orders.

 

 

I don't really see an issue with the color if Strang only specified the Chinkin Palmet as a base without any qualifiers. The 'standard' Chinkin Palmet uses 'unpolished' shu as the base color. This is a nearly matte and slightly brownish color. It is not the brilliant red that you find on the normal urushi polished shu. I own a polished shu pen and have handled several chinkin pens with a shu base. The chinkin pen looks matte as it is supposed to be. If you look at the picture of the standard Chinkin Palmet on Nakaya's site as well as the one that Pthalo reviewed, the color is the same as Strang's pen. If Strang asked for a brilliant polished red as a base then I would agree that Nakaya screwed up. If not, then you cannot fault Nakaya.

 

One note is that Chinkin often looks more muted than maki-e. Winedoc and I had a long discussion about this at the last LA pen show. We were comparing a group of Danitrio Genkais done using all-out maki-e versus a group using full blown chinkin. The maki-e pens were very flashy and brilliant. The chinking pens are more understated and almost matte looking. All the pens were gorgeous but the two different techniques yield different results.

 

The raden on Strang's pen is clearly not the best example of raden work. The issue seems to be the fact that the raden is not flush with the surface. Obviously, Strang had this expectation and this added to the disappointment. I find this point harder to criticize than many of the other posters on this thread. The combination of raden on chinkin presents certain challenges. Chinkin is done by applying the urushi and then carving the pattern into the urushi. Gold powder is then applied to the carved areas. Maki-e is a different discipline. The artist paints the art on a prepared urushi surface using urushi and then sprinkles the gold on the wet urushi. This builds up rather than down. I would presume the artist would have to gouge into the urushi to set the raden in chinkin versus applying the a blob of urushi to a smooth surface and setting the shell pieces. This makes it hard to get a flush effect as well as filling in the edges. In the latter case, the wet urushi would go around the edges and give the effect Strang wanted. Combining techniques often yield unexpected results. I'm not sure I can fault Nakaya for this. The choice of shell pieces is something that could have been raised when the pen was first received.

 

The only thing I would call an error is the one leaf where the coloring goes beyond the edge. This looks like a clear mistake. In chinkin, if you make a mistake while carving there is no recovery. Again, this should have been raised as an issue upon delivery.

 

The nib issue is a common issue and comes up all the time in the Japan sub-forum. People not familiar with the Nakaya/Platinum nib sizing are disappointed when they see a Nakaya broad. The Nakaya broad is more like a Pelikan medium. The solution is simple. Have Nakaya change the nib to a BB stub or the music nib. The music nib gives the exact stroke that Strang expected. I have a Nakaya with a music nib.

 

As Ethernautrix pointed out, the best course of action is to voice your displeasure as soon as the pen was received.

 

I suspect based on Strang's description that the pen he really envisioned is a pen made using maki-e not chinkin on a polished shu base with a raden in the center of the flowers. This pen would have the brilliant red color and the raden would naturally be flush with the raised maki-e.

 

There is a always a certain amount of risk in a custom order. I have three custom Nakayas and two more on order. On the last order, it took 8 months but Nakaya delivered what I had asked. One of the pens had a fault and they fixed the mistake before shipping. On my current order, Nakaya promise best effort with an understanding that there are no guarantees. I accept that.

 

A few years ago, I ordered an expensive pair of speakers ($16k). Rather than the standard finish, I asked for an exotic veneer. When I received the speakers, I was underwhelmed by the finish. The finish was perfect but the look was not what I had envisioned. I did my research but wood veneers are variable. Was it the companies fault? No. They delivered what I had asked. The results were just not as I had envisioned. Those are the risks.

 

I another case, I had a custom knife made. (Ethernautrix has tried this knife). I placed the order and waited a long period of time without any communication. No problem for me but I suspect many on FPN would have freaked out. One day I get a call and the dealer told me they ran into a problem. The craftsman who was to do the handle on my knife (special technique) passed away and that I would have to choose another handle style. In the end, the knife arrived the way I had requested. They managed to find another craftsman who could make the handle.

 

 

So custom orders can be fraught with peril. The best thing is to specify and understand as much detail as possible.

 

 

Even though the pen did not work out as planned things it's not worth getting too frustrated. My own speaker story ended up with a happy ending. Eight months after I received the speakers, the financial crash happened. Another person in my area had a pair of the flagship speakers ($50k) from the same company as mine. The person had to sell to raise cash for his business. So I ended up with my 'holy grail' speaker after trading in some cash and the pair of speakers with the wonky finish in a complicated three way trade.

[Strang]

The pen was commissioned for a specific reason and, despite its shortcomings, it has sentimental value which transcends any complaints I have about the pen.

 

I guess I didn't make this point strongly enough.

[ethernautrix]

The pen was commissioned for a specific reason and, despite its shortcomings, it has sentimental value which transcends any complaints I have about the pen.

 

I guess I didn't make this point strongly enough.

 

 

I suspect that this issue has grown beyond being about just your experience, Richard, and I hope that the information helps others who are considering a custom order -- with Nakaya or anyone.

 

In other words, your experience has become a public service announcement. *Smiley*

[Penquin]

I would like to share a related experience here. I bought a Pearl Edison Urushi from Ernest Shin - I had the good fortune of meeting with him in person. A very interesting young man, who is genuinely interested in lacquer and proud of his creations. Within a month, I dropped the cap from the table (it is a clip less pen and it rolled pretty quickly - poor reflexes and carelessness on my part). I contacted Ernest and he immediately agreed to replace the cap for a small (discounted) fee. It has certainly taken a bit of time and has far overshot my expectations (I am still waiting for it to arrive, hopefully should be here next week). Till now it is an ordinary story.

 

What makes this really extra-ordinary is the 30 emails I have written to Ernest asking him when it would be ready (say one per week). Ernest always replied within a couple of hours explaining very sincerely the process that he was currently carrying out and it's relevance to the overall work. He would always apologize for the time it has taken but would assure me that the finished product would meet my expectations (only the cap is broken, so the new cap has to match with the body).

 

Now, there are two ways to look at this. I could complain about how long it has been taking or I could appreciate the young man's passion for his work and extend the courtesy of being patient. I choose to do the latter and I think that is what makes this hobby special for me - the acquaintance of people who love pens and who go to great lengths for customer service.

 

I apologize for a long reply and I hope we find what we want in this nice hobby!

[fuchsiaprincess]

I would like to share a related experience here. I bought a Pearl Edison Urushi from Ernest Shin - I had the good fortune of meeting with him in person. A very interesting young man, who is genuinely interested in lacquer and proud of his creations. Within a month, I dropped the cap from the table (it is a clip less pen and it rolled pretty quickly - poor reflexes and carelessness on my part). I contacted Ernest and he immediately agreed to replace the cap for a small (discounted) fee. It has certainly taken a bit of time and has far overshot my expectations (I am still waiting for it to arrive, hopefully should be here next week). Till now it is an ordinary story.

 

What makes this really extra-ordinary is the 30 emails I have written to Ernest asking him when it would be ready (say one per week). Ernest always replied within a couple of hours explaining very sincerely the process that he was currently carrying out and it's relevance to the overall work. He would always apologize for the time it has taken but would assure me that the finished product would meet my expectations (only the cap is broken, so the new cap has to match with the body).

 

Now, there are two ways to look at this. I could complain about how long it has been taking or I could appreciate the young man's passion for his work and extend the courtesy of being patient. I choose to do the latter and I think that is what makes this hobby special for me - the acquaintance of people who love pens and who go to great lengths for customer service.

 

I apologize for a long reply and I hope we find what we want in this nice hobby!

 

Did you have to send the barrel to him so that he could match it?

[Penquin]

Yes, I sent the pen back. Man, I miss the pen. I should have it back in a day or two though!

[captain1796]

Sorry you are unhappy with your pen, I will say that the raden to me look very nice. They are round and well done, I think being raised was by design, and urushi is at the end of the day an incredibly strong adhesive, so I don't think they will ever fall off. Also, the Japanese asthetic of Wabi, the transitional nature of things might have contributed to some of the imperfection in the petals. I would talk to Nakaya and see what the artist has to say. Sometimes my western ideal if perfection conflicts with being able to find perfection in imperfection. I have an antique car that was handbuilt and restored over 10 years, and they still didn't get it perfect, but you can see that it was never stamped out of a mold, and I'm one of a few people that knows what went into it. If you've had it for a year, and your anything like me you won't be able to relax untill you confront them about it. I have a Decapod that if you tighten the top just doesn't guite line up. I called nakaya on it, and after a discussion, can understand why and am ok with it. The facetS do line up as they touch, but move off center as it is tightened into place. Not how I would have done it, but understandable. I was tought how to machine parts by a German, who said "when your done and I ask how it turned out..the only answer should be perfect." I still measure everything with a micrometer. The pen is beautiful, shu is that muted red color(very Japanese) and I would look into the thought behind it before I was disappointed. Good luck, let us knoW.

[nicholasyeo]

That is a beautiful finish. This is not too flashy yet an authentic piece of art!

[sheehmi]

If you have no plans to return it or seek other redress from Nakaya, which seems to be the case, I don't understand the whole point of this thread other than to paint Nakaya in a negative light.

[opus7600]

If you have no plans to return it or seek other redress from Nakaya, which seems to be the case, I don't understand the whole point of this thread other than to paint Nakaya in a negative light.

 

Must every review be a positive review? What a useless board this would become if that were the case!

[ethernautrix]

The most important message that I got from this review is to be very clear about what you want and expect. I've made similar mistakes -- receiving what I've ordered because I didn't order with complete knowledge. Ricky gave a very detailed account addressing this.

 

Even so, I would have contacted Nakaya immediately. Even if I were told, "It's what you ordered," at least I would have understood why what I received was not what I expected.

 

All of this is a moot point, as Richard said that he would live with it. I know that the Edison-Hakunin shouldn't be considered compensation or consolation (you know, "the Nakaya was a disappointment, but at least I got what I wanted elsewhere"), but that ordering process obviously was much clearer, and the Edison-Hakunin pen is gorgeous (and I don't even like a stippled finish in general, but it really works on Richard's pen).

Edited October 4, 2011 by ethernautrix

[Astra]

If you have no plans to return it or seek other redress from Nakaya, which seems to be the case, I don't understand the whole point of this thread other than to paint Nakaya in a negative light.

 

I disagree. I would like to order from Nakaya someday and this review gave me a great deal of useful information to consider when ordering to make sure I get the pen I want.