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Substitute For Silicone Grease


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69 replies to this topic

#21 jor412

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 23:39

I found out, from what turned out to be a quest for it, that gun hobbyists stores also sell silicon grease.
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#22 FarmBoy

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:35

Molykote 111 will do a perfect job.


....and do we know what's in said product, and what it is compatible with? Always ask, and know your materials before you use it on a pen.

From molykote.com:

Molykote® brand lubricants include a complete line of multi-purpose oils, synthetic and ultra-high-purity mineral-oil fluids, specialty compounds, greases, pastes, anti-friction coatings, and more trusted by engineers to solve or prevent lubrication problems.

Molykote is a trade name for a whole host of Dow lubricants. I can easily ask our sales rep what is in any of them but the contents are all sorts of interesting compounds.

There is also MolyCote that is a suspension of Molybdenum disulfide. It is used as an anti-seize compound on bolts and other fasteners that are subject to heat cycles. Use it all the time.

Dow Corning Silicon grease is really easy to find and not expensive. A one ounce jar or tube will last almost a lifetime of pen repair.
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#23 TETRIS

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 06:37

Molykote 111 will do a perfect job.


....and do we know what's in said product, and what it is compatible with? Always ask, and know your materials before you use it on a pen.



That is why it is worthwhile to say anything, it is always better to keep to ourselves.
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#24 Arqui

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 13:39

Hi,

In my place it is difficult to get Silicone Grease. Can I use Petroleum Jelly as an alternative?.
Is there any adverse effect in using this substitute in materials other than rubber/ebonite?

Please advise.

Thanks
-saji

Silicon grease is used in runnig belts to reduce friction between the belt and its support. You may ask for it in any fitness center or in a shop that sells fitness devices.

#25 Vintagepens

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 14:05

As for what was used before silicone grease, I understand that a preferred lubricant for Onoto cork packing seals was (beef) tallow.

In Germany, cork seals have since the early 20th century been prepared by soaking in "paraffin oil" -- which is what we in the USA would call mineral oil. From what I understand, this is essentially a liquid form of petrolatum, aka Vaseline. Judging from the weak waterproofing mineral oil gives to my butcher block counter top, I can't but think that there must be a better way to prepare cork seals nowadays -- perhaps a more liquid version of silicone grease.

#26 dcwaites

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 00:51

Silicone grease is also used in servicing Caterpillar tractors. The rubber-based hydraulic hoses need a pure silicone.

I bought a 250 g tube for my workplace some umpty-umpty decades ago (just post-Nixon) and squeezed a little into a small bottle. I stil have it, still using it, mostly to seal Platinum Preppy ED conversions. I am much happier with it than the yellow Cressi-Sub diving grease I have.

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#27 Pen Nut

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:16

Molykote 111 will do a perfect job.


....and do we know what's in said product, and what it is compatible with? Always ask, and know your materials before you use it on a pen.


We do if we look at its MSDS:

https://msds.canon-europe.com/Environment/CENVMSDS.nsf/0/5C47FDBBE28F73C5802571E9004DC5E4/$FILE/TKC-0920%20MOLYKOTE%20111%20COMPOUND%20.PDF

It's silicone grease, and apparently nothing else.


Is this not purely a safety sheet? I cannot find any reference in the document that mentions actual contents of the product.

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#28 Pen Nut

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 11:30

This from their website may give more insight. I have highlighted some in blue but what the additives actually are who knows.:

DOW CORNING® 111
Silicone compound
Specialty
Lubricants
Product Information
TYPICAL PROPERTIES
Specification writers: These values are not intended for use in preparing specifications.
Please contact your local Dow Corning sales representative prior to writing specifications
on this product.
Parameter
Valve lubricant and sealant
Standard* Unit Value
APPLICATIONS
• Lubrication for control and pressure plug valves, water softener and faucet
valves.
• Sealant for vacuum and pressure systems.
• Sealant for outdoor equipment (also shipboard) subject to washing and harsh
environmental exposure: meters, electrical service entrance and underground
connections.
• Damping medium for dash pots in electrical and electronic equipment.
• Chemical barrier coating.
• Used as an anti-stick and sealant for transformer gasket and equipment
enclosures. It prevents gaskets from sticking to metal and resists weathering
and water washout.
• Rubber and plastic O-rings, gaskets and seals.
Physical nature Stiff compound
Color White to light
grey, translucent
ISO 2137 Penetration unworked mm/10 175 to 210
ISO 2137 Penetration, worked 60, max. mm/10 260
CTM 0033A Bleed 24 hours/200°C (392°F), max. % 0.5
Evaporation 24 hours/200°C (392°F),
max.
CTM 0033A % 2.0
Melting point °C None
°F None
* CTM: Corporate Test Method, copies of CTMs are available on request.
ISO: International Standardisation Organisation
FEATURES
• Good resistance to most chemicals
Wide service temperature range
(40°
C/40°
F to 200°C/392°F)

• Low vapor pressure
• Low volatility
• Excellent water resistance
COMPOSITION
• Silicone oil
• Inorganic thickener
• Additives

HOW TO USE
How to apply
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound can be applied by hand,
specially designed automated
equipment, brushing or wiping.
Certain designs of grease guns may
seize up; test prior to use.
A thinner consistency can be achieved
by dispersing in solvents such as
xylene, mineral spirits and methyl
ethyl ketone. DOW CORNING 111
Silicone Compound can then be
applied by brushing, dipping or
spraying.
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound should not be applied to
any surface which will be painted or
finished. Such coatings may not
adhere to the silicone-treated surface.
If contaminated by a silicone coating,
parts can be wiped or washed with
solvent, washed with detergent, or
immersed in an alcoholic potassium
hydroxide solution and then rinsed in
clear water before painting.
Solubility
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound is insoluble in water,
methanol, ethanol, or mineral oil, and
soluble in Chlorothene NU®*,
perchloroethylene, mineral spirits and
methyl ethyl ketone. The greater the
consistency (lower penetration value),
the lower the solubility of the specific
silicone compound. The suitability of
the particular solvent should be based
on testing prior to regular use.
Flammability and toxicological
properties should be important
considerations in the choice of a
solvent.
Chemical resistance
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound is not greatly affected by
mineral oils, vegetable oils or air. It is
generally resistant to dilute acids and
alkalines, and to most aqueous
solutions.
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound is quite resistant to a wide
variety of organic and inorganic
chemicals. Because each application
may vary in chemical composition,
pressure, flow velocity, relubrication
requirements and equipment design, it
is recommended that the silicone
compound be tested before adopting
for regular use.
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound is not to be used with
liquid oxygen and should not be used
in applications requiring LOX
compatibility.
HANDLING PRECAUTIONS
DOW CORNING 111 Silicone
Compound may cause temporary
discomfort when in direct contact
with eyes. In case of eye contact,
flush eyes with water.
PRODUCT SAFETY
INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR
SAFE USE IS NOT INCLUDED.
BEFORE HANDLING, READ
PRODUCT AND SAFETY DATA
SHEETS AND CONTAINER
LABELS FOR SAFE USE,
PHYSICAL AND HEALTH
HAZARD INFORMATION. THE
SAFETY DATA SHEET IS
AVAILABLE FROM YOUR LOCAL
DOW CORNING SALES
REPRESENTATIVE.
USABLE LIFE AND
STORAGE
When stored at or below 20°C (68°F)
in the original unopened containers,
this product has a usable life of 60
months from the date of production.
PACKAGING
This product is available in different
standard container sizes. Detailed
container size information should be
obtained from your nearest
Dow Corning sales office or
Dow Corning distributor.
LIMITATIONS
This product is neither tested nor
represented as suitable for medical or
pharmaceutical uses.
HEALTH AND
ENVIRONMENTAL
INFORMATION
To support customers in their product
safety needs, Dow Corning has an
extensive Product Stewardship
organization and a team of Health,
Environment and Regulatory Affairs
specialists available in each area.
For further information, please
consult your local Dow Corning
representative.
WARRANTY
INFORMATION - PLEASE
READ CAREFULLY
The information contained herein is
offered in good faith and is believed
to be accurate. However, because
conditions and methods of use of our
products are beyond our control, this
information should not be used in
substitution for customer's tests to
ensure that Dow Corning's products
are safe, effective, and fully
satisfactory for the intended end use.
Dow Corning's sole warranty is that
the product will meet the
Dow Corning sales specifications in
effect at the time of shipment. Your
exclusive remedy for breach of such
warranty is limited to refund of
purchase price or replacement of any
product shown to be other than as
warranted. Dow Corning specifically
disclaims any other express or implied
warranty of fitness for a particular
purpose or merchantability. Unless
Dow Corning provides you with a
specific, duly signed endorsement of
fitness for use, Dow Corning
disclaims liability for any incidental
or consequential damages.
Suggestions of use shall not be taken
as inducements to infringe any patent.
*® Chlorothene NU is a registered
trademark of the Dow Chemical
Company.
©1997-2001 Dow Corning Corporation. All rights reserved.
19/11/1998
Ref. no. 22-1087C-01 DC 3666
2 ® DOW CORNING is a registered trademark of Dow Corning Corporation.

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#29 sajiskumar

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 12:00

Thank you Ron Z, Ray-Vigo, UltraMagnus, Force viclip, OcalaFlGuy,fraafreg, Chthulhu, Pen Nut, TETRIS, daniel0731ex, Nimmireth, jor412,FarmBoy, Arqui, Vintagepens and dcwaites for your valuable comments. I got the contact information of a Molykote 111 distributor in India and will try to get a small quantity ( 100 gms) through courier. It is little bit costly ( as per Indian Standards (US$10+Shipping))
Thanks again
-saji

#30 Ron Z

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 15:30

This from their website may give more insight. I have highlighted some in blue but what the additives actually are who knows.


That's the kind of information that we need. My questioning the contents was simply a reminder that one needs to do the homework to find out what is in a product before glibly applying it to a pen. I do it all the time, a habit that I started as a radio engineer. One is often quite surprised by what is in a product, and what things will be harmed by it. The compatibility information is important. Buried in the information is this line under applications that tells us that it's OK to use:

• Rubber and plastic O-rings, gaskets and seals.


What we find here is that we are back to silicone grease with a brand name on it, not another product.

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#31 SamCapote

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 02:22

Krytox (DuPont) or Finish Line Extreme Fluoro PFPAE (Teflon greases)
With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#32 sajiskumar

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:01

Thanks, SamCapote for the info.

#33 Richard

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:34

I believe that back in the 1890s-1910s, eydroppers were sealed using beeswax.

Umm, no, actually, eyedroppers were sealed with hard rubber. No sealant was necessary because the pens were machined precisely enough that tightening the barrel/section joint was sufficient to keep the pen from leaking. I've never used a sealant on any of my vintage EDs, and I've never had one leak on me. I think you'll find numerous others who can say the same thing.

Modern pens are not generally machined with as much attention to perfect flatness and uniform finish on the critical surfaces, which is why some of them have O-rings at the joint. And why others require a sealant.
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#34 green51

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:59

here in the states there is a variety of silicone grease called tune up grease. It's used in automotive service to insure conductivity for wire and light bulb connections. I believe it has a synthetic base.

#35 Scrawler

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:35

Teflon or plumber's tape may put too much stress on the fine threads esp. if they're black hard rubber, leading to cracking.

I believe that back in the 1890s-1910s, eydroppers were sealed using beeswax. Living in Canada I find it easier to locate silicone grease than beeswax, I haven't a clue who might sell beeswax let alone what it's predominant use is nowadays, but it should do the job.

I have found it much easier to get beeswax than silicon grease in Canada. Beeswax can be gotten from any beekeeper or craft store. Had I realized that beeswax would do, I would not have gone to the extent I did communicating with various manufacturers of silicon products and comparing materials datasheets to find all the common products that can be used with pens.

As Teflon has been mentioned, here is one warning. There are products sold in most Canadian Tire an Home Hardware stores in the plumbing department for sealing water pipes. It is called silicon grease, but if you look at the ingredients it also contains lithium. This is thinner and runnier than the silicon grease you want for a pen and it will NOT do in a pinch. It is not for use on any plastic compound and will cause your pen barrel to fail.

Somewhere in this site there is a thread where I published the results of my checking on these greases and recommendations, if you are unable to find one that is sold specifically for fountain pens. I will try to find it and copy the list of common compounds here.

Edited by Scrawler, 09 October 2011 - 02:44.


#36 JonSzanto

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:41

We may make it to Hydrogenated Yak Squeeze before the end of this thread afterall...

This is ok by me, just so long as we're talking about free-range yak. End Yak Cruelty NOW!
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#37 Scrawler

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:43

See this thread here:

http://www.fountainp...ost__p__1362732

#38 Antoinem

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:54

Teflon or plumber's tape may put too much stress on the fine threads esp. if they're black hard rubber, leading to cracking.

I believe that back in the 1890s-1910s, eydroppers were sealed using beeswax. Living in Canada I find it easier to locate silicone grease than beeswax, I haven't a clue who might sell beeswax let alone what it's predominant use is nowadays, but it should do the job.


Let me know if you want beeswax, I have about 5 lbs of it.

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#39 viclip

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 10:33

Teflon or plumber's tape may put too much stress on the fine threads esp. if they're black hard rubber, leading to cracking.

I believe that back in the 1890s-1910s, eydroppers were sealed using beeswax. Living in Canada I find it easier to locate silicone grease than beeswax, I haven't a clue who might sell beeswax let alone what it's predominant use is nowadays, but it should do the job.


Let me know if you want beeswax, I have about 5 lbs of it.

Antoine

Beeswax would be easier to procure in some countries than silicone grease taking into account the agrarian economy, delivery infrastructure (or lack thereof) & that many individuals don't have one of the major credit cards, access to PayPal etc. Not having any experience with beeswax, I suspect that silicone grease is an excellent substitute for that natural substance. Can anyone comment on their experience with beeswax in terms of pen use?

#40 Flounder

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 15:40

Silicone is a rather recent invention, what did they use before it was invented?



I think rubber safe grease, for brake pistol seals, boots and the like, was made from vegetable products before silicone grease was made.


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