What I Recently Learned About Ebay Sellers

[raging.dragon]

I've had a similar experience but not with a pen. However, it is disconcerting to be blocked from bidding when all you did was leave honest feedback about your experiences. If the buyer is going to be banned unless we give every seller positive feedback then the system is semi-useless and skewed. In my case, it was years later that I tried to bid on an item. I was really baffled why eBay would not accept my bid. It was so long ago that I'd forgotten it was this seller that I'd left negative feedback for (the only time I ever did leave negative feedback). I just had a friend buy the item and skipped the other items I intended to bid on and that was that. I just decided it is not worth bidding on anything where my questions go unanswered. I assume it is not the way I want it to be and move on. Still....I get what you're saying.

 

Cedar

 

This also leaves me harbouring more doubts about the validity and usefullness of eBay seller ratings.

[searcher18]

What do you think about sending the Ebay seller a copy of the FPN discussion to show him how other people see him? Do you think that he might modify his behavior?

[Parker51]

Well, personally I do not bid on the discussed potential sellers pens any longer. I do not even bother looking at them, and not because of any bad buying experience, but because of his use of reserves. I fully understand why he uses them, and do not hold him responsible for my not being able to determine what his reserves are at when I initially look at a listing, but I simply get tired of bidding repeatedly to try to find out what the reserve is, and usually find that it is set so close to retail, that if I look for discounts from regular non-Ebay merchants, I can come very close to matching his minimum. In general I do not buy anything on Ebay that has a reserve, as I personally do not like reserves, but that comes from having over 40 years experience with Auctions, most very enjoyable, punctuated with the frustration of being the high bidder, and then finding out the reserve was even higher.

[wspohn]

What do you think about sending the Ebay seller a copy of the FPN discussion to show him how other people see him? Do you think that he might modify his behavior?

 

 

Not a hope in Hell with this seller - he doesn't care.

[Mikale]

Every time I deal with an ebay seller like this one I handle them this way: If they ship you the correct merchandise you won and paid for, count your blessing and never return. If you choose to do business with them again you are putting yourself at risk for disappointment as you have learned. I reviewed this seller's feedback history in a 12 month span and it paints a picture that they don't place a whole lot of importance on gaining repeat customers; their attitude is if you don't like how they do business you're a "LIAR!" Please save yourself from future frustration avoid this seller, I know you can find better deals for Visconti pens elsewhere.

 

 

 

[Mikale]

Well, personally I do not bid on the discussed potential sellers pens any longer. I do not even bother looking at them, and not because of any bad buying experience, but because of his use of reserves. I fully understand why he uses them, and do not hold him responsible for my not being able to determine what his reserves are at when I initially look at a listing, but I simply get tired of bidding repeatedly to try to find out what the reserve is, and usually find that it is set so close to retail, that if I look for discounts from regular non-Ebay merchants, I can come very close to matching his minimum. In general I do not buy anything on Ebay that has a reserve, as I personally do not like reserves, but that comes from having over 40 years experience with Auctions, most very enjoyable, punctuated with the frustration of being the high bidder, and then finding out the reserve was even higher.

 

 

I agree auctions that use the 'Reserve' pricing is definitely a TIMEWASTER.

[Limenweim]

If the seller is that bad, you should go back to try and bid again. These sellers aren't worth it.

 

But if you REALLY want to bid, simply create another account to do so.

[waterobey]

Ebay is a giant marketplace where there are rude sellers and rude buyers. I like transactions where everyone leaves happy, but the feedback system is flawed at best. I dont believe that Ebay should allow sellers to blacklist buyers unless there are numerous complaints about a particular buyer.

[wastelanded]

It seems the whole purpose of sellers blackballing buyers is to keep their feedback percentage high, keeping negative (or even neutral) feedback out of their profile.

 

In effect, this invalidates the concept of feedback: the numbers aren't an honest reflection a seller.

[raging.dragon]

It seems the whole purpose of sellers blackballing buyers is to keep their feedback percentage high, keeping negative (or even neutral) feedback out of their profile.

 

In effect, this invalidates the concept of feedback: the numbers aren't an honest reflection a seller.

 

Indeed. In the bad old days some sellers abused buyer feedback to intimidate buyers and thus bias feedback in the sellers' favour. In order to maintain buyer trust in seller feedback ebay eliminated buyer feedback despite it being useful for sellers trying to avoid dishonest buyers. With that tool removed it looks like unscrupulous sellers are now attempting to influence their feebback by abusing their power to blackball buyers.

[Sleepyside]

This entire discussion is precisely why I don't do Ebay and never will.

 

And no, all mail order and internet shopping is not like this. I have been mail ordering things since I was knee high to a grasshopper, which is longer than most of you have been alive. And back in the early days of QVC, I was the QVC queen - or thought I was until I met one of my former bosses. My point is, this is a bad business model and I refuse to deal with it. I have NEVER had this kind of adversarial relationship with a REAL internet vendor with a real website. And you never see this kind of (bleep) going on at a live auction either. I have been buying horses at auction for nearly 40 years.

[Lars_E]

This entire discussion is precisely why I don't do Ebay and never will.

 

And no, all mail order and internet shopping is not like this. I have been mail ordering things since I was knee high to a grasshopper, which is longer than most of you have been alive. And back in the early days of QVC, I was the QVC queen - or thought I was until I met one of my former bosses. My point is, this is a bad business model and I refuse to deal with it. I have NEVER had this kind of adversarial relationship with a REAL internet vendor with a real website. And you never see this kind of (bleep) going on at a live auction either. I have been buying horses at auction for nearly 40 years.

On the other hand, I´ve had only excellent experiences with eBay. Check out the seller, his feedbacks, do a quick Google search on him. Nothing easier than that. Why should a eBay seller be any different than a "real" internet vendor? There are enough "real life" shops out there where customer service is far worse than any eBay experience.

[raging.dragon]

This entire discussion is precisely why I don't do Ebay and never will.

 

And no, all mail order and internet shopping is not like this. I have been mail ordering things since I was knee high to a grasshopper, which is longer than most of you have been alive. And back in the early days of QVC, I was the QVC queen - or thought I was until I met one of my former bosses. My point is, this is a bad business model and I refuse to deal with it. I have NEVER had this kind of adversarial relationship with a REAL internet vendor with a real website. And you never see this kind of (bleep) going on at a live auction either. I have been buying horses at auction for nearly 40 years.

On the other hand, I´ve had only excellent experiences with eBay. Check out the seller, his feedbacks, do a quick Google search on him. Nothing easier than that. Why should a eBay seller be any different than a "real" internet vendor? There are enough "real life" shops out there where customer service is far worse than any eBay experience.

 

Exactly. Ebay, like any market, includes a mixture of good and bad sellers and buyers. And blackballing buyers who leave insufficiently positve feedback probably doesn't work all that well - it's unlikely those buyers will want to deal with those sellers again, and it's easy enough for a buyer to create an new ID to circumvent the ban.

[jgdye]

It seems the whole purpose of sellers blackballing buyers is to keep their feedback percentage high, keeping negative (or even neutral) feedback out of their profile.

 

In effect, this invalidates the concept of feedback: the numbers aren't an honest reflection a seller.

 

Indeed. In the bad old days some sellers abused buyer feedback to intimidate buyers and thus bias feedback in the sellers' favour. In order to maintain buyer trust in seller feedback ebay eliminated buyer feedback despite it being useful for sellers trying to avoid dishonest buyers. With that tool removed it looks like unscrupulous sellers are now attempting to influence their feebback by abusing their power to blackball buyers.

 

I also remember those days. It seemed every other auction ended with "Positive feedback reciprocated" or something similar. As far as bias, it has always been biased toward the Power Seller who could afford to take an occasional feedback hit and against the small user for whom even a single negative could demolish their ability to both buy and sell. Now they have eliminated the only feedback recourse a small seller had against a difficult buyer. I personally thought the better solution would have been a "delayed" feedback model, where the feedback would be recorded but not revealed until both parties had either left feedback or the deadline had passed.

[red52ripple]

Nobody gets "blackballed" in eBay. That's a misuse of the term, which means excluding from an organisation by vote. What we're talking about here is a seller deciding he will no longer deal with a particular buyer, and that's not limited to eBay. No seller, anywhere, online or in your local convenience store, has to sell to a buyer he chooses not to.

 

Most regular sellers will have a list of buyers they have blocked from bidding. It isn't done lightly. We list our pens in eBay to sell them, not to prevent people buying them, after all. We sellers have no wish to unnecessarily reduce the number of our potential buyers, but there are some who are impossible to deal with, and it's not about feedback. Like the person who won three of my pens one evening and at the end of the sale told me he did not wish to proceed with the purchase. Or the repeat buyer who tried to renegotiate the price after each sale.

 

Of course eBay provides ways of dealing with people like that, but who needs them in their life?

 

Ebay is far from perfect, as are all other markets. On the other hand, it's worth remembering that it was the provision of a market by eBay that stopped the house clearance guys salvaging the nibs and sending the rest to landfill. The vintage part of our hobby would be very small without eBay.

 

Regards,

[fourseamer]

I agree that a delayed feedback model would have been a better choice.

 

I'll take the other side of the argument. I don't think sellers should be obligated to sell to anyone they don't want to. Think about it. If they should opt to do this, they're ultimately hurting themselves by limiting the potential market for their goods. However, let's admit it: there's pain-in-the-arse buyers out there too. Buyers can steer clear of dodgy sellers. I think sellers should have some means to do the same.

 

A market needs a buyer and a seller. Personally, I think eBay has made it punitive for sellers by removing their ability to leave feedback, taking a huge percentage of sales in fees, and consequently, tainting the average eBay seller's reputation just about everywhere. As a result, what used to be a fascinating bazaar of goods at reasonable prices has now been replaced with average retail items with considerable markup and a diminished experience.

[wspohn]

I agree auctions that use the 'Reserve' pricing is definitely a TIMEWASTER.

 

 

From a seller's point of view, the reserve is a necessity on pricier items to prevent someone 'stealing' the item because there is no competition for it. Some sellers create faux identities so they can put in their own bids to bump up prices, but that is strictly verboten.

 

I agree that not knowing what the reserve is isn't very satisfactory to bidders, particularly the ones like me that bid their maximum at the last possible minute. The alternative that I like better (and I'll be using soon as I am in the process of selling some old watches) is to put in a BIN (but it now) price and allow offers. That way, no one can grab a valuable item for a silly low bid just because you screwed up and had the auction ending at the same time as some sporting event, and it allows a dialogue between seller and potential buyers with offers and counter offers, aware always that until there is a sale, anyone can swoop in and grab it by agreeing to pay the BIN price. Makes life more interesting and protects the seller.

[wspohn]

But if you REALLY want to bid, simply create another account to do so.

 

Of course then you run into the low feedback trap until you actually buy things a few times. On pricier items, the seller may not accept bids from 'newbies'.

 

Think of these picky sellers like our friend that caused this thread in the first palace, as a critchety old man running a corner store where the kids come in, steal the comic books and candy him to the point where he bans some of them. If he is really crotchety, he will probably ban kids that don't deserve it, but it is his store and his right to choose not to deal with anyone he doesn't wish to sell to. Same thing on Ebay - you don't have to deal with anyone you don't want to but you risk damaging your reputation if you too quickly ban buyers.

 

One of the quirks that bugs me on Ebay (since that's what the thread is about) is that when you set up a sale listing and specify an area, you also ban any contact from buyers outside of that area. I am in Canada but have a US address for those sellers that choose not to ship out of the US, but I not only can't bid on their items, I can't contact them to ask them to open the sale to me.!

[impossiblebird]

I never bid for items whose sellers don't answer reasonable questions; nor do I leave anything other than positive feedback for anyone who doesn't actually rip me off, though my feedback comment reflects, as far as possible (why so few characters?), any shortcomings in the transaction, such as unjustifiable delays in paying refunds, or unwarranted threats/abuse (every large community must surely contain its own fair share of hotheads or out-and-out sociopaths).

 

Sellers can apply to have what they regard as undeserved neutral and negative feedback deleted, and the buyer won't necessarily be consulted for their side of the story.

 

Just as I'm free to avoid trading with sellers I don't fancy, sellers are free to avoid trading with me, though it's disconserting when you feel you've done nothing to deserve it. I was blocked once by a seller who evidently took exception to my enquiring whether he'd send a packet registered post, at my expense. He agreed to do so, then blocked my bid.

[OcalaFlGuy]

I have to chuckle when I read someone here on FPN bad mouthing Ebay.

 

It strikes me as a very nearsighted and not very well thought through position.

 

I view Fleabay as nothing short of a lifesaver for the "hobby" of fountain pen collecting. I see those lifesaving efforts as both direct and indirect effects.

 

Due directly to Ebay, there are hundreds of thousands of truly collectable pens that are now in "our" hands being used as they were originally intended instead of rotting in some landfill under a used, full of poo disposable diaper. Before Ebay, I think many fountain pens found in the wild were viewed as useless relics and tossed in the garbage. Thankfully, that's probably not so common any more. I think Fleabay is also directly responsible for helping to keep the price of restored pens from Other Sources reasonable. A retail pen seller knows that with Ebay they aren't quite the exclusive source of a nice restored pen that they would be without it.

 

Ebay is probably also responsible for a large % of FPN's membership. Many members came here after First bumping into some pen on The Bay that caught their attention and FPN was the first most relevant source Google gave them to find out more about that pen. They "came here for the pen and stayed for the people". Another indirect benefit to "the hobby" is that Fleabay has set the stage for people to Begin restoring pens that otherwise would never have given that idea any thought. The ample supply of good condition, inexpensive Esterbrooks was a main impetus for me giving restoring them any thought. If you had told me when I bought my first restored Estie from Toulouse here on FPN that I would be restoring them myself, I would have laughed at you. This indirect effect of luring more people into restoring pens becomes a direct effect when those people come HERE to learn how to correctly do those restores and as a result there is a greater supply of fully restored pens at more reasonable prices than before.

 

I will grant you that to be a successful fountain pen buyer on Ebay requires more effort than clicking on an "Add to Cart" tab at some top shelf restorers website. IMO, a well informed Ebayer *makes their own* "good luck" on The Bay. I contend that for the FP accumulator becoming an informed Ebay buyer isn't a chore but a pleasurable part of "the hobby". The more you learn, the more you want to learn the less quicksand pits you'll fall into on The Bay. I have bought around 120 pens on The Bay. I have returned two of them and those were due to inaccurate condition seller descriptions I ascribe more to ignorance than any desire to take advantage of me the buyer. Even with my very isolated problem Ebay pens, I've found each of those sellers pleasant and glad to work towards a happy ending to the deal for both themselves and me. Probably my one most distasteful Ebay experience is having a seller ban me for asking questions about a pen. One seller doing that out of the hundreds of sellers I have ask questions of doesn't even register on my radar.

 

There is absolutely no way possible I would have near the number of pens I have now, in anywhere near the condition they are now, for anywhere near the price I got them for, were it not for Ebay.

 

Truth be told, while I disagree with the Fleabay dissers opinions, I LOVE them. I KNOW that I can bid on the pens I Want without having to be concerned about bidding against them.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL