Swan Mabie Todd Question

[httpmom]

I was just looking at my personal catalog for which pens have the best flexy nibs. I have a broad array of pre 1040s Parker, Sheaffer, Wahl/Eversharp, Waterman, and Swans. I also collect interesting filling mechanisms on old BCHR pens.

 

A lot of Swans make the list of best flex nibs. But also, a lot of my old hard rubber no names, second tier, and just plain interesting pens make the list as well.

 

So, go to the pen show and try anything very old and black hard rubber. You just might get a great writer out of a less collected and less expensive pen.

This is good information, as having a daughter in college, my income is not as disposable as it once was. I intend to test drive the hell out of many pens at the show. I'll be like the test drive guy on the internet...watch out salesman...she's on the loose!

[Goudy]

I would like to know more about the one and only Mabie-Todd Swan in my collection. It does not seem to have a model number at all. The closest thing I can find is the word "Stenograph" printed around the barrel end. It has two notable features, a wonderful wet noodle nib and a severe crack through the barrel threads. Also, there is a little metal bit with a broken end on top of the base of the nib. I don't think it was an overfeed as it is placed concave side up. I'm guessing that it is just a shim that someone put there to keep the nib in place. In any event, with that crack there I'm not going to mess around with anything! It's too nice a writer to take a chance on breaking it.

http://bulk-share.slickpic.com/album/share/mLMj11ND4DjYYM/10144846.0/800/p/MT01_Swan_Nib.jpg

 

 

That bit of metal at the base of the nib would originally have looked like this:

 

http://i.imgur.com/O0MBFRw.jpg

 

You're correct that it's not an overfeed in the true sense, in that it's not feeding a supply of ink to the nib like the underfeed does. Its purpose seems to be to help retain ink in the nib slit, in order to minimise railroading during flex - and possibly also to limit the degree of flex, to protect the nib from being sprung by an overenthusiastic user. Your nib is probably flexier for the lack of it!

[sexauerw]

Thank you for the picture of what it would have looked like. I would not have guessed that.

 

It's definitely a flexy nib! I've never handled one that was more flexible.

[KBeezie]

I have a SW 205/60 (Swan M2 on section). Curious about it's production date: http://imgur.com/a/gduNy

 

http://i.imgur.com/4ceFXZb.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/uAHg8mM.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/ixKBCXT.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/mMbnpAm.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/NH1XLG3.jpg

Edited June 17, 2015 by KBeezie

[Wet-Noodle]

What a very nice looking 205/60 Kbeezie and a great nib!

 

Hello BillLS, I had the same problem with a Swan cap cracked on the thread. I was concerned that one twist too many would snap the old rubber and felt that it was worth taking a chance, but a very careful one! I could gently open the crack a little, so I took a thin strip of writing paper and put a very small smear of super glue on one side and STARTING ON THE NON THREADED SIDE OF THE CRACK (most important to avoid any glue in the threads) pulled/ slid the paper through the crack JUST ENOUGH, quickly removed the paper and wound a rubber band around the cap to hold it closed. It worked like a dream, no problem with the thread and you really have to look for what was quite a serious crack and most importantly it's rock solid.

[Cob]

The SM205/60 would have been made mid to late 1930s. Early 1930s Swans (and Blackbirds) were fitted with step clips.

 

Cob

[chingdamosaic]

Dear Swan lovers,

 

Greetings from Taiwan! (English is not my mother tongue, but I'll try my best to make myself understood....)

 

Last May I happened to get a Swan pen exactly like this one:

http://www.thefountainpencommunity.activeboard.com/t43006411/my-first-vintage-pen-a-mabie-todd/

The only difference is that mine has "6260" imprinted at the bottom of the barrel, while the one above has none.

 

I have carefully read this thread, including the chart Mr. Ernst Bitterman provided.

However there wasn't much discussion about the pens numbered 6XXX, neither was the number 6 listed in the column of the first digit in the aforementioned chart.

At first I thought maybe 6 represented "self-filler", since this was imprinted on the barrel.

But then I learnt that lever filler and self filler are pretty much the same thing, only that the former is more British and the latter more American(...am I right...?)

So according to this numbering system my pen should be labeled as 3260 instead of 6020.

 

And then I came across this review:

http://www.sbrebrown.com/2014/10/mabie-todd-swan-self-filler-fountain-pen/

......So there actually is a 3260! Although the design of the cap and barrel-bottom is slightly different, and this one has patent number imprinted on the barrel, I am sure that the lever part is exactly the same as mine.

On the other hand, this reviewer also mentioned the numbering system in his video. But instead of the filler, he claimed that the first digit represent the model of the pen, whereas the number "3" refers to the Swan.

 

I found some other 6260 Swan on ebay and other auction sites. the dates of manufacture the sellers claim vary from late 30s to mid 40s, Some are earlier than the 3xxx series. I wonder if I can guess that there had been a change in the 4-digit numbering system, and the 6XXX was only used for a short time and then substituted by the 3xxx?

 

Any way.....well, I don't know. I'm just dying to know what this "6" mean, and when exactly this pen was manufactured.

 

Really hope someone can help me with these questions! Thanks a lot!

 

 

best regards,

Iris

[Cob]

Hullo.

 

The 6xxx series was manufactured in the 1930s.

 

The 6 refers to the shape, the 2 to the nib size and 60 is the colour - in this case black Celluloid.

 

You seem to have found a nice example.

 

The 3xxx series is a different shape and appeared post-war.

 

All leverless pens of the 1930s carried the prefix L

 

Best wishes

 

Cob

Edited October 20, 2015 by Cob

[chingdamosaic]

Hi Cob,

 

thanks for the quick reply!

 

Wow so this pen is even older than I expected....

Does that mean 6260 wasn't manufactured anymore in the 40s? (Because of the blitz in London, 1940, perhaps?)

Also if you don't mind, may I ask where you get your reference? I've been googling all day long but couldn't find these details.....

 

Once again, big thanks to you & cheers!

 

 

best wishes,

Iris

[Cob]

Hi Cob,

 

thanks for the quick reply!

 

Wow so this pen is even older than I expected....

Does that mean 6260 wasn't manufactured anymore in the 40s? (Because of the blitz in London, 1940, perhaps?)

Also if you don't mind, may I ask where you get your reference? I've been googling all day long but couldn't find these details.....

 

Once again, big thanks to you & cheers!

 

 

best wishes,

Iris

I cannot affirm absolutely that 6260s were not made in the 1940s, but that has been my impression. It is possible that Mabie Todd made some during the war - after the factory and head office were destroyed in the blitz which must have caused a lengthy hiatus I should guess. I believe some leverless pens were made around 1940 or so. I expect that after that the new factory probably made what were known as "warlike stores" for the duration.

 

There were other pens made in that shape e.g. 6241 green marble, 6242 blue marble 6245 grey marble. There were 61xx models too plus a load with no numbers as well.

 

Advertisements I have seen for sale taken from magazines from about 1947 carry pictures of pens from the new ranges introduced at the end of 1947.

 

My information comes largely from trawling throgh the forums etc. and from various websites.

 

Cob

Edited October 20, 2015 by Cob

[chingdamosaic]

Thanks for all the information!!

 

I used to treat this pen rather casually, because I thought it was only some random used pen( there is another Japanese Swan company producing cheaper fountain pens, so I confused these two)

Now I'm starting to worry about the maintenance of this old gentleman.....

Don't think I'll be able to repair the lever or sac should they break!

 

Big thanks again!

 

best wishes,

Iris

[Cob]

They are not difficult to repair and are reasonably robust; I must have fixed at least a dozen 6260s and many more of the variants. Levers are always fiddly - but shouldn't break.

 

Sac replacement is straightforward.

 

C.

[Fox Point]

I am very sad right now, I just got sniped on ebay by one of those programs which bids in the last few miliseconds, and lost out on an over-under feed pen. It would have been my first MT. How frequently do these come up? Do you have any suggestions for finding them and avoiding the snipers? I probably invested a bit much expectation into this auction because I was so excited...

 

Fox Point

[Goudy]

I am very sad right now, I just got sniped on ebay by one of those programs which bids in the last few miliseconds, and lost out on an over-under feed pen. It would have been my first MT. How frequently do these come up? Do you have any suggestions for finding them and avoiding the snipers? I probably invested a bit much expectation into this auction because I was so excited...

 

Fox Point

 

They're pretty common on eBay UK. The over-underfeed Swans come up in my searches at least once a week, and usually go for £50 or less - more if it's a particularly nice example and well presented.

 

As for the snipers... if you can't beat them, join them (I learned that lesson long ago).

[Cob]

I have a couple of over-under Swan 100s that I would sell for moderate money.

 

Cob

[Fox Point]

Thank you for your quick replies! I will both keep an eye out and PM you, Cob. : ) That helps, but it can be quite a sting! Especially as this one went for quite little.

[Fox Point]

... And how do you join the snipers?

 

F.P.

[Goudy]

... And how do you join the snipers?

 

F.P.

 

You can snipe manually (exciting but risky), run sniping software on your own computer, or (my preference) use a third party web service.

 

More info.

[Greenie]

I use third party sniping software. It just seems to be the way to go. You can always put the same maximum bid as your sniping bid into ebay and for the most part you will get similar results.

 

You don't need too much patients for a MT over and under feed. Condition is highly variable and will alter the price quite a bit. So if you want one to use and own out of interest, you can get it for a reasonable price.

 

I will vouch for Cob as an excellent source of all things Mabie Todd.

[Fox Point]

Cheers, all! Do you have specific recommendations or warnings about sniping software out there?

 

: )