Getting Started Re-Tipping Nibs...

[777]

Hello to all you awesome folks in the repair forum.

 

I want to begin re-tipping nibs. Yes, I know it's expensive, and it's hard, but I want to learn no matter what.

 

So, my questions to you all are:

 

1) What tools do I need?

 

2) Where can I learn this skill?

 

3) Where do I buy genuine/proper materials

 

4) Give me any advice you can offer!

 

Thank you all so much. I'm excited to see where this venture takes me. Though, as always, it's going to be cost and time consuming...

[AltecGreen]

This thread is going to get interesting. Have you seen this thread?

 

 

 

For starters, watch this video of Pilot's process.

[dizzypen]

I'd suggest searching out old patents. I'm sure there is something there about how they retipped nibs before electronics existed.

[UltraMagnus]

First, a disclaimer, this is all from theory, as those that do re-tipping choose not to share their methods for the benefit of the community.

Hello to all you awesome folks in the repair forum.

 

I want to begin re-tipping nibs. Yes, I know it's expensive, and it's hard, but I want to learn no matter what.

 

So, my questions to you all are:

 

1) What tools do I need?

An electrical resistance welder with custom teeny electrodes

a 0.001 inch power saw, and a jig to keep the nib perfectly perpendicular whilst cutting as those expensive blades are fragile.

 

2) Where can I learn this skill?

 

3) Where do I buy genuine/proper materials

No idea, but the MOQs are quite high.

4) Give me any advice you can offer!

 

Thank you all so much. I'm excited to see where this venture takes me. Though, as always, it's going to be cost and time consuming...

Edited August 18, 2011 by UltraMagnus

[777]

I get it know... It's one of those learn it yourself things - just like adding flex to nibs!

 

Well, I'm rather determined, and once that happens there isn't much that can stop me.

 

I'm going to get some books on "micro-welding", or whatever it's called.

 

Thank you all for your help so far!

[777]

One last note:

 

Not to be rude to anyone, but I think it's perfectly justified for a professional to keep his/her trade secrets, secret!

 

I mean, looking at this re-tipping thing - I'm going to throw in an estimated $1,500.00, HOURS and hours of my time, ruin some good nibs, and waste more time, just to learn this skill. If you had done that, and now you had a skill that was your job, how you made your income - would you just want to give it away to anyone who asked?

 

Same thing with nib grinding - I'm paid 50% for my skill, and 50% for my knowledge.

 

I hope that makes sense to you all. If everyone could re-tip and grind their own nibs - there would be no nibmeisters and re-tippers...

[The Pensmith]

The thread referred to by AltecGreen contains some honest advice for those who may be interested in "brave new re-tipping adventures". I have been a gold and silversmith by trade for some 38 years. I think I know a little about metal.

 

The truth of the matter is that the blowtorch "wont cut the ice". The suggestions of silver solder to join gold and "iridium" or titanium, border on the absurd. I could join the two metals with quality silver solder but, the nature of the solder join of entirely dissimilar metals simply means they will not stay together for any length of time. The correct method of attaching iridium (or other) tips to gold nibs is electrical resistance welding. But, it is very expensive in terms of equipment and extremely time-consuming to set up in any manufacturing environment. If I were to personally establish such a facility, and having regard to the quality of equipment I would want to work with, I would be spending somewhere near $30,000 US today. I have been involved in setting up and maintaining such equipment for others. It is not for the feint-hearted!

 

My very best advice to the brave-hearted - leave it for others to spend their money on! Apart from those who literally, re-tip thousands of nibs per year, (and I don't know them), there is no economic justification for the exercise!

[framebaer]

If you want to learn how to do it CORRECTLY, my best advice is to try to get an apprenticeship with John Mottishaw in LA or Greg Minuskin ( also somewhere in Calif.). They are the only 2 folks I know who know how to retip reliably, and John trained Greg I am told.

[opus7600]

If you want to learn how to do it CORRECTLY, my best advice is to try to get an apprenticeship with John Mottishaw in LA or Greg Minuskin ( also somewhere in Calif.). They are the only 2 folks I know who know how to retip reliably, and John trained Greg I am told.

 

Uh...does that mean Richard doesn't retip, or simply that he doesn't do it reliably?

[FarmBoy]

If you want to learn how to do it CORRECTLY, my best advice is to try to get an apprenticeship with John Mottishaw in LA or Greg Minuskin ( also somewhere in Calif.). They are the only 2 folks I know who know how to retip reliably, and John trained Greg I am told.

 

Uh...does that mean Richard doesn't retip, or simply that he doesn't do it reliably?

I don't know that it means anything particular but I suspect Richard concentrates on pen repair and contracts his nib work to someone else.

 

Greg is in Tustin CA. Very close to LA.

[APPLEMAN]

I heard that some of these guys started out welding with a 12 car battery so there may be some way that someone can start with very little and work their way up. I am sure that a "proper" welder will do the job better but what the heck.

 

Tips

http://richardlgreenwald.com/iridium-tipping-material-p-116.html?zenid=70aac24b8b099650f759253b9e876f08

 

Battery out of dad's car and away you go.

 

Sorry I don't know where to get the saw.

 

Just my .02

 

Chris

[OldGriz]

If you want to learn how to do it CORRECTLY, my best advice is to try to get an apprenticeship with John Mottishaw in LA or Greg Minuskin ( also somewhere in Calif.). They are the only 2 folks I know who know how to retip reliably, and John trained Greg I am told.

 

Uh...does that mean Richard doesn't retip, or simply that he doesn't do it reliably?

I don't know that it means anything particular but I suspect Richard concentrates on pen repair and contracts his nib work to someone else.

 

Greg is in Tustin CA. Very close to LA.

 

Sorry, but you are wrong.... with the exception of retipping a nib, Richard DOES ALL the rest of the nib work along with pen repair work... how do you think he got the title of nibmeister.

If you have ever been to a pen show where Richard is present you will see that all he does at a show is nib work (regrinding, reshaping, tuning), he does not do any pen repair work at shows...

Ron Zorn is generally at the table next to Richard and he is doing pen repairs.

[viclip]

I know what it takes to TIG weld autobody steel using half voltage (115 volt household) with the outfit set to 70 amps DC. Without some pretty specialized welding equipment & associated skillsets, welding a tiny blob of the platinum family onto a razor-thin gold nib would be no mean feat.

[777]

Alright, well, sounds like everybody agrees that it's very hard and expensive.

 

The hard-part, is no problem for me. I don't care how much skill is required, I can learn it if I try.

 

The tough party for me is finding a "semi" inexpensive way to start. Anyone here know where I can buy an electrical resistance welder for a moderate price? They must make a small portable one...

 

And where can I learn about electrical welding? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks!

[KrazyIvan]

Take this with a grain of salt as I have no idea what it takes to do this. I did some google searching and came up with some search terms that might help.

 

Laser welding Jewelry (this site looked promising as it has training resources and the part about retipping jewelry prongs seems very appropriate: http://www.laserweldingjewelry.com/index.html

 

capacitive spot welder jewelry (added jewelry to maybe limit the search to smaller welders capable of being used with nibs)

 

jewelry welder

Edited August 19, 2011 by KrazyIvan

[777]

Take this with a grain of salt as I have no idea what it takes to do this. I did some google searching and came up with some search terms that might help.

 

Laser welding Jewelry (this site looked promising as it has training resources and the part about retipping jewelry prongs seems very appropriate: http://www.laserweld....com/index.html

 

capacitive spot welder jewelry (added jewelry to maybe limit the search to smaller welders capable of being used with nibs)

 

jewelry welder

 

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for.

[OcalaFlGuy]

In the prior thread, I think it was Richard Binder that said either Greg or John's set-up was $25k.

 

Two other points are burned into my brain on this.

 

Saith El Zorno;

 

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:48 PM

I know enough about retipping nibs that I am quite willing and content to let someone else do it.

 

That is also basically Richard's opinion too (from the same thread).

 

Now.

 

I will always be the first in line to applaud ingenuity, perseverance and innovation.

 

However, when these two gentlemen conclude as they have and I know that figuratively speaking, it isn't 200 years ago and they're discussing if the earth is flat, but of a craft of which they are both intimately aware,

 

That pretty much answers the question for me.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL-no really, if it Were That Easy, OR That Cheap, everbody would be doin it

[viclip]

Alright, well, sounds like everybody agrees that it's very hard and expensive.

 

The hard-part, is no problem for me. I don't care how much skill is required, I can learn it if I try.

 

The tough party for me is finding a "semi" inexpensive way to start. Anyone here know where I can buy an electrical resistance welder for a moderate price? They must make a small portable one...

 

And where can I learn about electrical welding? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks!

I'd recommend taking a service course in oxy-acetylene welding ("gas" welding) followed by arc welding (which introduces you to using electricity). These course are offered by local colleges, usually at night, geared towards various hobbyists such as advanced motorheads. You can then take more advanced courses in arc welding (vertical, overhead, pipe) as well as TIG & MIG, the latter two combining inert gas welding with electical welding.

 

Having said that, nibs are tipped with resistance or spot welding techniques. Perhaps some colleges offer such service courses, but they're not very common I suspect. You may wind up having to teach yourself using attachments made for arc welders. You will need a machine (economical or otherwise) that can deliver what must be a very rapid and concentrated zap to fuse the tipping material onto the gold without vaporizing everything in sight.

[dizzypen]

I just have to point out that once Greg and John pass into the next life (hopefully no time soon mind you) there will still be fountain pen nibs that need fixing. These two gentlemen must not be the last people brave enough to take on this challenge.

 

777 is a very young man aspiring to the likes of John Mottishaw. It's one thing to warn him of the perils of learning to do this, but it is quite another to try to persuade him not to do it. Clearly, he has made up his mind. Now is the time to help him if you can/will and wish him luck as he undertakes the challenge!

[777]

I just have to point out that once Greg and John pass into the next life (hopefully no time soon mind you) there will still be fountain pen nibs that need fixing. These two gentlemen must not be the last people brave enough to take on this challenge.

 

777 is a very young man aspiring to the likes of John Mottishaw. It's one thing to warn him of the perils of learning to do this, but it is quite another to try to persuade him not to do it. Clearly, he has made up his mind. Now is the time to help him if you can/will and wish him luck as he undertakes the challenge!

 

 

Thank you. That was very well put. This is exactly what I am trying to get across. That's why I call myself part of the next generation of pen repairers!

 

Greg Minuskin, John Mottishaw, Michael Masuyama, Richard Binder, Pendleton Brown, etc. - None of these great guys are immortal, or ageless. They will all eventually have to discontinue work, for one reason or another. Who will re-tip nibs when they're gone? Who will grind nibs? Who will repair pens PROPERLY?

 

Someone has to. And I intend to be one of those people who continue this timeless tradition. I sincerely hope there is a "next-generation" of FP users for me to assist.

 

On another note - I'm looking into those classes on electrical-laser welding. The guy teaches how to do a lot of stuff that would work great applied to re-tipping nibs.