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New Vp - Nib Rubbing On Trap Door...


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36 replies to this topic

#1 777

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:58

So I just got my brand new Black matte VP Posted Image but I have one problem with it. Some one had the same thing a while ago, and no one ever came to a conclusion...

The tipping on the bottom of my nib is rubbing the trap door every time I extend the nib. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to do this. I can feel it rubbing on there...

Anyone else have this problem? Should I send it back for repairs? I don't want to be without it for weeks on end. It's already been wait enough to get a hold of it in the first place.

Thank you in advance for nay possible solutions or insight on this issue. Posted Image

Aside from this, I'm totally loving the pen! The black matte finish is delicious to the touch... Posted Image

Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


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#2 777

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:14

Okay, look at this diagram from pilot. It looks like the nib is supposed to hit the door, in fact it's what pushes the door open. Huh? If it's made that way then cool! I really can't tell now... Some one who knows more please fill me in...

Posted Image

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#3 ajcoleman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:47

As far as I can tell what you describe seems normal. The nib pushes the flap open. I don't feel any "rubbing" till it gets to the point where the edge of the door transitions to the bottom of the feed. The pen has worked this way since I got it from Richard Binder several months ago, and there does not seem to be any significant wear on the nib as a result. As long as the flap or door stays smooth and freely moving, it is probably less wear on the nib than continually dragging the tip of the nib across paper!

I hope this helps. Enjoy your VP!
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#4 MadAmos

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 23:08

If you look very close it is the plastic feed that opens the trap door.

There is no linkage to open it it is the pressure of the nib extending that opens the door and spring pressure closes it when the nib is retracted. I have used Pilot V/P pens daily for 5+ years with no problems caused by this other than a little ink on the trap door and seals I just flush the body using the nib to open and close the trap door under a stream of water shake it out, and dry it over night and it's good to go.
Amos

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#5 777

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 00:16

If you look very close it is the plastic feed that opens the trap door.

There is no linkage to open it it is the pressure of the nib extending that opens the door and spring pressure closes it when the nib is retracted. I have used Pilot V/P pens daily for 5+ years with no problems caused by this other than a little ink on the trap door and seals I just flush the body using the nib to open and close the trap door under a stream of water shake it out, and dry it over night and it's good to go.


I'm confused though - if you look at that diagram, there is way the feed can hit before the nib. And I know my nib is hitting the door.

I need to find a pilot rep. and talk with them in person... Posted Image

Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


#6 MadAmos

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:12

I will have to check again but as I remember the nib is very close or just lightly touching on mine, and I have 12 now 3 Fermo's and the rest regular V/P. The slight contact that is rapidly transferred to the feed has not caused any of my nibs to wear or become less smooth. Do you have a camera that will take a picture of the nib as it starts to open?
Amos

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#7 dizzypen

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:21

It's not a flaw. This is the way the pen is designed. The feed is actually doing most of the work. You don't have to worry about damaging the nib. These pens have been happily working this way for what 30-40 years now?

Just enjoy your VP. It's a great little pen!
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#8 william m

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:47

Hey,

I created the above graphic and can confirm that it is bottom section of the plastic feed that pushes open the trap door. The nib never touches the body of the pen or door.

William
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#9 hari317

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:32

Hey,

I created the above graphic and can confirm that it is bottom section of the plastic feed that pushes open the trap door. The nib never touches the body of the pen or door.

William


If the depiction in the graphic is correct, there is no way the nib tip will not hit the trap door before the feeder does.
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#10 Sleepy

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:01

Hey,

I created the above graphic and can confirm that it is bottom section of the plastic feed that pushes open the trap door. The nib never touches the body of the pen or door.

William


If the depiction in the graphic is correct, there is no way the nib tip will not hit the trap door before the feeder does.


Hari is right, either your words or your graphics are incorrect.

#11 william m

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:18

Hmmm... oh dear, I thought I knew how the pen worked. But OK I will have a look around for Capless beyond repair to take apart and see if I can shed any light on this.
I have all the Pilot catalogues, ask me if you need help.

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#12 professionaldilettante

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 13:38

My Fermo does this too. It makes sense, for the brief time the nib does touch the door, it's enough ink for the door to smear over the bottom of the feed. I think that it should be normal.
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#13 tanalasta

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 06:29

My Fermo does this too. It makes sense, for the brief time the nib does touch the door, it's enough ink for the door to smear over the bottom of the feed. I think that it should be normal.


My vanishing point does this. i suspect it is normal.
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#14 hari317

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 14:05

I thought it fit to revive this old thread to add some information. It is by design that the nib is supposed to contact/push open the trap door as the nib unit is propelled forward. It is for this reason that the trapdoor's return spring is kept weak to prevent bending the nib, as it pushes the trapdoor open.

Interesting design details can be found in the following Pilot patents:

US3292593
US3427112
US4560298

Best
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#15 Dillo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:34

Hi,

The nib does touch the door on all of my three Pilot Capless pens. I can take a photo to confirm this. I can also feel when the point when the feed takes over from the nib.

Dillon

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#16 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 22:13

I explain how it works in this thread and another member illustrates with the physical mechanism.

http://www.fountainp...oint-mechanism/

#17 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 22:16

"The trap door is on a slant relative to the nib (which is flat) so the feed hits the trap door first, then the nib hits the trap door as you go a little deeper (pushing the button), and then the nib leaves contact with the trap door with the feed's friction completing the action.

If you press slowly, you can feel the initial contact, which is soft and that could only be the feed since the feed is relatively soft when compared to the point's material."

#18 hari317

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:47

I explain how it works in this thread and another member illustrates with the physical mechanism.

http://www.fountainp...oint-mechanism/



"The trap door is on a slant relative to the nib (which is flat) so the feed hits the trap door first, then the nib hits the trap door as you go a little deeper (pushing the button), and then the nib leaves contact with the trap door with the feed's friction completing the action.

If you press slowly, you can feel the initial contact, which is soft and that could only be the feed since the feed is relatively soft when compared to the point's material."


If you look at the images posted in the thread that you have linked to, it is clear that the nib will hit the trapdoor first, not the feed.

The Pilot patents I reference to in post 14, also confirms the same.

Thanks!
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#19 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 18:38

I explain how it works in this thread and another member illustrates with the physical mechanism.

http://www.fountainp...oint-mechanism/



"The trap door is on a slant relative to the nib (which is flat) so the feed hits the trap door first, then the nib hits the trap door as you go a little deeper (pushing the button), and then the nib leaves contact with the trap door with the feed's friction completing the action.

If you press slowly, you can feel the initial contact, which is soft and that could only be the feed since the feed is relatively soft when compared to the point's material."


If you look at the images posted in the thread that you have linked to, it is clear that the nib will hit the trapdoor first, not the feed.

The Pilot patents I reference to in post 14, also confirms the same.

Thanks!


The feed does indeed hit the trap door first.

If you have your Pilot Vanishing Point (we are talking about the modern version right) press the button ever so slightly until you meet your initial resistance.

The feeling should be soft. The soft feeling is a plastic making contact with a metal surface.

Push a little further and then you should meet your second "layer" or resistance and slight rubbing of two metal objects. That is the nib making contact and rubbing against the trap door.

The feeling should be a little rougher than your first encounter with resistance. The rougher feeling is a metal making contact with a metal surface.

Continue pushing, and that is your third "layer" or resistance, which is the feed pushing the trap door down and if you continue all the way until you can no longer push the button, then you would have a fully actuated pen.

The feeling should be identical to soft feeling in the initial resistance. Again, this is a plastic making contact with a metal surface.

Even if the illustration or patent is different, there is always theory versus practice, and what I described is how it actually happens.

Edited by Oranges and Apples, 02 December 2012 - 18:40.


#20 Koyote

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 19:18

I don't care how it works...I just know that it is about the coolest, most convenient FP ever.






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