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Pelikan M200 - Binder 0.7 Mm Crisp Italic Nib


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22 replies to this topic

#1 dms525

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 05:37

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I received the Pelikan M200 I had ordered from Richard Binder with a 0.7 mm crisp italic nib today. I loaded it with a MB ink I've had for years but never even opened and, with eager anticipation, took it for a spin.

My first impressions were:

1. This is a gorgeous object, with a look and feel of quality.
2. This is a small pen. I have smallish hands, but it still seems small to me. It's not uncomfortable to hold, and I think I'll get accustomed to it in time.
3. Writing is a bit scratchy with some minor skips. I'm hoping this nib just needs breaking it.
4. The thick/thin differentiation is purely amazing for a nib this fine.

I've used a MB ballpoint as my main writing instrument for some 30 years. I don't know that I'll entirely abandon it in favor of the fountain pen. Time will tell.

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David

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#2 DAYoung

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 05:58

Thanks for the review. The M200 was my first Pelikan.

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).
Damon Young
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#3 akrishna59

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 06:11

m200 is the first pelikan that most of us have bought, i suppose. i did not find any skips in the writing sample, as far as my weary eyes could tell. in any case, coming from mr. binder you can rest assured that it will soon be super smooth.

you have a beautiful pen, now pls. get rid of that ball pen.

tks. for the review and welcome to fpn.

rgds.

krishna.
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#4 Pufff

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 11:12

I received the Pelikan M200 I had ordered from Richard Binder with a 0.7 mm crisp italic nib today.
3. Writing is a bit scratchy with some minor skips. I'm hoping this nib just needs breaking it.


Crisp italic nibs are going to be scratchier than cursive italic nibs because of the sharp corners which give such amazing line variation. I enjoy the sound of a scratchy nib! Also, it will skip if you do not place the nib squarely on the paper.

#5 Richard

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:48

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.
Click to send email: richard@richardspens.com
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#6 777

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 13:11

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.


Yup, crisp italics are some wicked-sharp little nibs. And hard to use at that... Still, if you want max variation, they sure do rock. I've done a few crisp-italics. Same process as Richard - Basically, I very slightly rounded (or break, which sounds cooler) the edges. These little suckers can slice through your paper if, I repeat if you use them wrong. They'll skip and do all sorts of nasty stuff too. If you keep em' aligned properly, and use the correct writing pressure (lightly!), then they can still be great writers. Of course, I personally would never use them for everyday use, but maybe that's just me...

BTW - The writing sample from the OP looks fabulous. Good job!

This is why I prefer my CI's though. Better than stub, but still smooth like butter. Posted Image

Oh yea, thanks for the great explanation Richard. Your site has a wealth of excellent info, and all the great graphics too, they're just... Posted Image

Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


#7 dms525

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 16:28

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.


Thanks for your reply, Richard.

I hope you will take my first impressions as just that - honest first impressions. Your response is very helpful.

I knew this nib would be challenging. In fact, I saw its relatively unforgiving nature as a positive attribute - to help me develop better pen handling. One of my bad habits is to apply too much pressure when writing. Your comment regarding this is a helpful reminder to focus on this as I practice.

Regards,

David

#8 dms525

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 16:42

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.


Yup, crisp italics are some wicked-sharp little nibs. And hard to use at that... Still, if you want max variation, they sure do rock. I've done a few crisp-italics. Same process as Richard - Basically, I very slightly rounded (or break, which sounds cooler) the edges. These little suckers can slice through your paper if, I repeat if you use them wrong. They'll skip and do all sorts of nasty stuff too. If you keep em' aligned properly, and use the correct writing pressure (lightly!), then they can still be great writers. Of course, I personally would never use them for everyday use, but maybe that's just me...

BTW - The writing sample from the OP looks fabulous. Good job!

This is why I prefer my CI's though. Better than stub, but still smooth like butter. Posted Image

Oh yea, thanks for the great explanation Richard. Your site has a wealth of excellent info, and all the great graphics too, they're just... Posted Image


Hi, 777.

My goal is to develop handwriting based on chancery cursive, to replace my almost-illegible cursive writing. Thus my choice of the crisp italic nib. I expect to rise to the challenge with lots of practice.

Thanks for the compliment, but my writing still needs a lot of work.

I concur regarding the value of Richard's explanation!

David

#9 777

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 17:02

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.


Yup, crisp italics are some wicked-sharp little nibs. And hard to use at that... Still, if you want max variation, they sure do rock. I've done a few crisp-italics. Same process as Richard - Basically, I very slightly rounded (or break, which sounds cooler) the edges. These little suckers can slice through your paper if, I repeat if you use them wrong. They'll skip and do all sorts of nasty stuff too. If you keep em' aligned properly, and use the correct writing pressure (lightly!), then they can still be great writers. Of course, I personally would never use them for everyday use, but maybe that's just me...

BTW - The writing sample from the OP looks fabulous. Good job!

This is why I prefer my CI's though. Better than stub, but still smooth like butter. Posted Image

Oh yea, thanks for the great explanation Richard. Your site has a wealth of excellent info, and all the great graphics too, they're just... Posted Image


Hi, 777.

My goal is to develop handwriting based on chancery cursive, to replace my almost-illegible cursive writing. Thus my choice of the crisp italic nib. I expect to rise to the challenge with lots of practice.

Thanks for the compliment, but my writing still needs a lot of work.

I concur regarding the value of Richard's explanation!

David



Well, there's always room for improvement, but I think your handwriting is pretty fabulous as is! After a year or two of practice, I can't wait to see what it'll look like. :)

Reminds me... I need to practice my handwriting too. It's not to bad, but sometimes, when I write quickly, it's a bit... Posted Image illegible...

Anyway, enjoy your new pen and nib!


Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


#10 rcarlisle

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 18:38

Thank you for going first David. I have had a Binder Cursive Italic for two years and I love it. It is my one pen that is pretty much always in my rotation. But I have wondered how a crisp italic would be to use. Mr. Binder hedges it round with such dire warnings that I have hesitated to order one on my next pen from him. But after seeing your post I think I will go for it. Your handwriting already looks very good to me.


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#11 dms525

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 19:08

Thanks, rcarlisle.

No guts, no glory, eh? :rolleyes:

I'm going to work on easing off on the pen pressure. In fact, I'm already liking the nib more after a couple hours' practice this morning.

I'll be wanting a wider nib (or two, or three) for my italic lettering. I imagine I'll order at least one in cursive italic, if only to experience the contrast with the crisp italic.

I believe Richard's cautions regarding the crisp italic are appropriate. It is optimized for certain types of calligraphy and not the best choice for other types of writing.

David

#12 DAYoung

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 21:04

That's a nice line variation, but it shouldn't be scratchy or skipping - not out of the box (let alone nibmeistered).

The nib is a crisp italic, not cursive. I finish my crisp italics until they are literally (in the literal sense of the word) knife sharp. I then just barely break the edge to eliminate up/down scratchies. Finally, I break the corners so the nib won't scratch or catch on turns. It's not a forgiving nib as a cursive would be.

Posted Image

My guess, given the skips, is that (as Pufff has noted) the OP has not yet learned how to keep the nib in the perfect alignment that a nib like this demands. These nib take practice, and they require that the user use virtually no pressure.


Thanks for the explanation, Richard.
Damon Young
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OUT NOW: The Art of Reading

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#13 Mickey

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 21:38

Thanks, rcarlisle.

No guts, no glory, eh? :rolleyes:

I'm going to work on easing off on the pen pressure. In fact, I'm already liking the nib more after a couple hours' practice this morning.

I'll be wanting a wider nib (or two, or three) for my italic lettering. I imagine I'll order at least one in cursive italic, if only to experience the contrast with the crisp italic.

I believe Richard's cautions regarding the crisp italic are appropriate. It is optimized for certain types of calligraphy and not the best choice for other types of writing.

David


Don't be too hasty. If you're already adjusting to the formal italic you've got, you may soon have no need for a cursive unless it's for the slightly softer look they give. I routinely use formal italic pens and I write cursively with them. (Pretty much always have.) I think the sharper nibs promote good technique and nib sense. (I sometimes think going cursive or stub is like putting the training wheels back on.)

The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press; but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous or illegal, he must take the consequence of his own temerity. (4 Bl. Com. 151, 152.) Blackstone's Commentaries


#14 Joe in Seattle

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 23:21

You guys are forcing me to go to the pen drawer and get out my ItaliFine ........ Cannot resist
"how do I know what I think until I write it down?"

#15 Joe in Seattle

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 23:21

You guys are forcing me to go to the pen drawer and get out my ItaliFine ........ Cannot resist
"how do I know what I think until I write it down?"

#16 dms525

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:29

Thanks, rcarlisle.

No guts, no glory, eh? :rolleyes:

I'm going to work on easing off on the pen pressure. In fact, I'm already liking the nib more after a couple hours' practice this morning.

I'll be wanting a wider nib (or two, or three) for my italic lettering. I imagine I'll order at least one in cursive italic, if only to experience the contrast with the crisp italic.

I believe Richard's cautions regarding the crisp italic are appropriate. It is optimized for certain types of calligraphy and not the best choice for other types of writing.

David


Don't be too hasty. If you're already adjusting to the formal italic you've got, you may soon have no need for a cursive unless it's for the slightly softer look they give. I routinely use formal italic pens and I write cursively with them. (Pretty much always have.) I think the sharper nibs promote good technique and nib sense. (I sometimes think going cursive or stub is like putting the training wheels back on.)


Hi, Mickey.

Your reply got me to try writing cursive with the crisp italic nib. Now, you must understand I don't have the worst scrawl on the planet, but it's pretty bad. To my surprise, my rather intensive work on italic over the past weeks has re-programmed my writing motor automatisms, and my cursive hand has changed rather radically for the better. It hasn't been this legible since before medical school. Remarkable!

I don't know how much credit the nib deserves, but it does work for cursive surprisingly well.

David

#17 Mickey

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 03:45

Hi, Mickey.

Your reply got me to try writing cursive with the crisp italic nib. Now, you must understand I don't have the worst scrawl on the planet, but it's pretty bad. To my surprise, my rather intensive work on italic over the past weeks has re-programmed my writing motor automatisms, and my cursive hand has changed rather radically for the better. It hasn't been this legible since before medical school. Remarkable!

I don't know how much credit the nib deserves, but it does work for cursive surprisingly well.

David


Hi David,

As long as the sharp corners get rounded off a bit (pretty much what Richard Binder described), there's no reason, other than iffy technique, why one couldn't use formal nibs to write cursively on most paper. I'd probably want a slightly more forgiving nib if I used a lot of heavily textured paper. In that case, I'd buy a formal nib and gradually relieve the corners myself until I achieved acceptably smooth joins (7:30 to 1:30 axis).

Edited by Mickey, 08 August 2011 - 03:46.

The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press; but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous or illegal, he must take the consequence of his own temerity. (4 Bl. Com. 151, 152.) Blackstone's Commentaries


#18 whitelily

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:26

Hi, Mickey.

Your reply got me to try writing cursive with the crisp italic nib. Now, you must understand I don't have the worst scrawl on the planet, but it's pretty bad. To my surprise, my rather intensive work on italic over the past weeks has re-programmed my writing motor automatisms, and my cursive hand has changed rather radically for the better. It hasn't been this legible since before medical school. Remarkable!

I don't know how much credit the nib deserves, but it does work for cursive surprisingly well.

David


Hi David,

As long as the sharp corners get rounded off a bit (pretty much what Richard Binder described), there's no reason, other than iffy technique, why one couldn't use formal nibs to write cursively on most paper. I'd probably want a slightly more forgiving nib if I used a lot of heavily textured paper. In that case, I'd buy a formal nib and gradually relieve the corners myself until I achieved acceptably smooth joins (7:30 to 1:30 axis).


Please excuse my ignorance, but what is meant by a "formal nib" here?

#19 Vshin

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 13:12

I think you might like Richard's cursive italic better. I don't think crisp italics were meant for casual writing purposes.

Good thing about Pelikans is that you can easily swap the nib out with another. I have a cursive oblique (1.1mm) and a stub italic (0.8mm) both in gold-plated steel that provide two completely different writing experiences with the same M200 body.
Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

#20 Mickey

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 13:20


As long as the sharp corners get rounded off a bit (pretty much what Richard Binder described), there's no reason, other than iffy technique, why one couldn't use formal nibs to write cursively on most paper. I'd probably want a slightly more forgiving nib if I used a lot of heavily textured paper. In that case, I'd buy a formal nib and gradually relieve the corners myself until I achieved acceptably smooth joins (7:30 to 1:30 axis).


Please excuse my ignorance, but what is meant by a "formal nib" here?


Sorry, the term is not used all that much anymore. I meant a nib appropriate for formal work (usually unjoined and generally more upright), in other words, a very crisp nib, one too sharp for fast writing of cursive hands.

The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press; but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous or illegal, he must take the consequence of his own temerity. (4 Bl. Com. 151, 152.) Blackstone's Commentaries







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