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Lamy Blue-Black - Plan To Reformulate Bottled Ink


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#41 Chris

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:24

I'm always sorry to see a reduction in consumer choice, especially when it is the informed consumer who loses out on a good quality product and the dunderheads and bean counters who triumph, but that is the sorry state of so many things these days :( . But I have never tried Lamy BB, only the blue because (i) great bottle B) and (ii) it was a great price too as old stock :thumbup: .

I have used MB, Diamine and HSS iron gall ink and of these I prefer the MB product on balance of factors such as colour, price, bottle design and writing characteristics. So although I am sorry Lamy BB fans are to lose a favourite, it is one of the many inks I have not yet tried and so won't miss.

It is, like, so cool - note trendy language :rolleyes: - to see, like, the colour go from, like, blue to, like, black with these sorts of inks as time, like, passes.

Chris

Edited by Chris, 08 July 2011 - 09:24.


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#42 hari317

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 13:56

I have used MB, Diamine and HSS iron gall ink and of these ...


Hi Chris, which is this HSS IG ink?

Thanks!
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#43 The Good Captain

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:22

I have used MB, Diamine and HSS iron gall ink and of these ...


Hi Chris, which is this HSS IG ink?

Thanks!
Hari

And I presume the Diamine is Registrar's Ink?

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#44 kushbaby

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 21:25

Well, I have at least started on my stockpile to survive the zombie apocalypse with plenty of old style Lamy Blue-black... :thumbup:

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#45 pharmacist

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:02

Fortunately I make my own true vintage iron gall fountain pen inks which is even more water resistant compared to the Lamy Blue-Black version. It flows much better from the nib and shades beautifully without any clogging. I find Lamy IG and MB IG too dry to the pen.

Those interested can contact me, since I offer this ink at a very reasonable price, but depending on the region (especially outside Europe)shipment can be costly.

Edited by pharmacist, 10 July 2011 - 19:30.


#46 Ipno Tizer

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:21

I have used MB, Diamine and HSS iron gall ink and .....


HSS or ESS?

I suspect that the "Registrar's ink" sold by Ecclesiastical Stationary Supplies (ESS) in the UK is the same as the Diamine product of the same name.

Chris B.

#47 Chris

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 13:32

Hi dear readers,

Sorry, indeed it is ESS (missed the key!) but it is not the same as the Diamine Registrar's Ink. The HSS product is slightly lighter than Diamine when it first writes and does not darken as much when comparing the two on the same paper. I prefer the Diamine product, but the ESS is much cheaper and comes in a 100ml plastic bottle. However, I now prefer the MB ink to either of these.

http://www.registrarsink.co.uk/

Chris

#48 professionaldilettante

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:28

I've received this information in an e-mail just a few minutes ago.


Thank you for your e-amil and your interest in Lamy inks.
Due to production standardization and needs of reducing the programme complexity we decided to standardize the formula of the blue-black ink
to the one of the LAMY T10 cartridges.
Which means, that we will discontinue the iron gall content.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards

C. Josef Lamy GmbH
ppa.
Marco Achenbach
Leiter Produktmanagement/Entwicklung


I did complete the on-line form a few times, probably in error, so there might be more replies. No doubt the information will be the same.
We shall see.

Well then.... Thank you Lamy for driving away one more customer. I would have depended on it for it's IG ink, but seeing as I have a very suitable and neglected alternative, Pilot Blue-Black, I suppose it's about time I make the jump back to it. It's pretty water resistant as well, and it's also got an old timey formalin smell to it. I don't know what is in the magical liquid, but Pilot has got it right. Just makes me wonder why Lamy didn't go the other way around and put IG ink into its cartridges. Just like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop I suppose. Was going to buy 6 bottles of it, but seeing as I can get 350ml of Pilot Blue Black for about 15$, I'd be hard pressed to find something else more economical.
Ps. I did write to them via email pleading not to change the formulation, but didn't see their official reply before.
Dear Lamy,
This is very unkind.
-FPN

Edited by professionaldilettante, 18 August 2011 - 12:30.

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#49 encremental

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 13:15

I remember that an enterprising member called Mongo emailed ESS and found out that the ESS ink was made for them by the Austrian firm Trodat.

Personally, I found the ESS so similar to Lamy iron gall that (sorry, gang) I would rather be able to buy a bottle of the new Lamy faux BB that another bottle of the original. Also, as Chris says, if I want an iron gall fix, then the MB is the one I go to.

John

#50 JakobS

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 13:27

Maybe someone could convince Nathan to replicate it. Does anyone know why he doesn't make an iron gall ink?


Nathan, it would appear, doesn't like acidic inks. Most of the Noodler's inks are pH neutral.

There are good reasons why iron gall inks can be problematic for archival purposes, due to the acid eating holes in the paper. (This may depend on the amount of iron gall compounds in the ink.)

Iron gall inks are probably also not as resistant to forgery as Noodler's bulletproof inks, which are based on dyes which react with the cellulose of paper.

Also, take a look at the Noodler's site to see what iron gall inks can do to aluminium foil! I am hazarding a guess that one of the inks mentioned may be Mont Blanc blue-black ink. (I may be wrong.)


Iron gall ink in the past reacted with the medium of the paper in a few different ways. The first was the oxidation of the soluble Iron (II) Sulphate to Iron (III) sulphate which attacked the cellulose of paper, excess sulphate in poorly mixed ink was the leading cause to paper degradation, high acidity, humidity and temperature accelerated this process by being catalysts and that's what created holes in the paper. Though not definite, Iron gall inks with well balanced Iron(II) sulfate, and which are not as acidic appear to persevere better than those that are not. One researcher even found acid free paper to be degraded, though the key here is if he was using poorly made ink with excess iron (II) sulfate or not, which is not made clear, and which others point to in criticizing his original claim that all iron gall inks will degrade paper.

I believe in using modern formations from Diamine, Lamy, and R&K, you have two things going for you, you have well formulated iron gall ink, which lessens the presence of excess sulphate, and two, you have acid free paper widely used which helps to decrease the acid present. The high humidity, and temp is environment dependent of course, but if you hope to preserve something, I would think you would be reducing the presence of these two things!

The one problem with the aluminum test is very few pens of any quality are made with aluminum parts, and so unless you are set on using a 10 pack of knock offs you got for five dollars, the quality of stainless steel nibs is such that the acid from fountain pen friendly iron gall ink is a non issue, heck the stainless steel and metal parts of the knock offs maybe as good too, I just wouldn't trust they have a great quality control program. I have used Diamine Registrar's in two Lamy safari's for 2 1/2 years now with no degradation of the nib, and R&K Scabiosa in a Lamy Safari and P51 with no degradation. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware that after 2 weeks to a month a little precipitation can occur, but usually if used as a every day pen, a refill or two will happen before this time. if precipitation does happen, flushing it with a tiny amount of soap gets it ready to write again. I have never had a pen become clogged, it's simply not an issue as long as you maintain your pens.

Edited by JakobS, 18 August 2011 - 14:43.

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#51 Sandy1

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 13:39

FYI - Link to Ink Review http://www.fountainp...amy-blue-black/

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#52 professionaldilettante

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:35

I got my final foreseeable purchase of anything Lamy for a very long time. I splurged, and got 10 bottles of it, off of Jetpens. I don't think stock would have changed so quickly that I would have missed this in a month. I haven't found Lamy's pens to be of much interest of late, even though I have one Lamy Safari that has been nothing but goodness to me, and I got more than enough bottles to last me for a good half dozen inks. I think I'm set. Lamy... do your worst, but If you're looking for me to spend my hard earned money, bring back the original blue black.
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#53 dcwaites

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 12:14

I bought two bottles from Malaysian ebay shop officeigloo, because at the time, the office-supplied stationery bled and feathered with anything else. This year, however, the quality of the paper is vastly improved, so my Lamy Blue-Black lies quietly in the corner, precipitating out into the little well in the bottom of the bottle...

But, I can use my Parker Penman Sapphire substitute (PR Am. Blue +15% water) at work now!!! Oh Happy Days...

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