Does Anyone Know What Kind Of Fountain Pen This Is?

[ingyaningya]

It is probably German, because it is being used by Adolf Hitler.

-No stupid answers please, I really need to know. http://www.germaniainternational.com/images2/Hitler/Signed_1940_Portrait/MVC-013S_lg.jpg

Edited June 17, 2011 by ingyaningya

[simp]

The shadow of the cap reminds me some Goldfink model. But it's just a wild guess.

 

It doesn't seems a Montblanc, and for sure it isn't a Pelikan.

 

Any hint about the year when the photo was taken?

 

Regards

Simone

Edited June 17, 2011 by simp

[ingyaningya]

The shadow of the cap reminds me some Goldfink model. But it's just a wild guess.

 

It doesn't seems a Montblanc, and for sure it isn't a Pelikan.

 

Any hint about the year when the photo was taken?

 

Regards

Simone

Most likely the 1930s.

[RedSox04]

It looks like a generic ebonite pen, AKA an artistic rendering of a fountain pen.

 

The nib looks small to be a Montblanc 138 (or equivalent 1930's Montblanc)

To my knowledge, Montblanc pens of that era tended to be fatter in the section?

 

You have to remember, during this time only fountain pens would be used by this type of man on the go. Thus, it would be like an artist of today painting a picture of someone using a ballpoint.

You would not spend so much time trying to get the details correct to match the brand. You would simply convey the use of a pen.

 

That's why I think this is just a generic sketch of a fountain pen.

[rhr]

It depends upon what you mean by "What Kind Of Fountain Pen This Is", ingyaningya. I don't know the exact pen brand, but it is definitely a safety eyedropper of some kind. Is your photo part of a larger photo, and can you give us the source of the photo?

 

However, the photo inside your photo, the one being signed, can be identified. I flipped your photo 205 degrees, and this what I got.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/c13e831f.jpg

 

I then did a search in Google Images for "hitler folded arms" and found a few interesting photos. Apparently Hitler was fond of being photographed with his arms folded, the left arm over the right. There is this one with him sitting in that pose on the edge of a fully outfitted desk, except he’s wearing a suit rather than a uniform. I have removed his face in order not to offend anyone.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/61f14bdb.jpg

 

But here's an interesting photo, again with the face removed. It is described as, "Signed Photograph of Hitler by his official photographer, Heinrich Hoffmann, with the title "Reichskanzler ADOLF HITLER" printed below. Showing Hitler, three quarter length, his arms folded in his Reich's chancellor uniform looking to his left. A formal pose reproduced on postcards that was one of Hitler's favorites. Signed by him in jet black ink in the lower portion of the photograph".

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/0637d6d7.jpg

 

The autograph is the same, and so is the uniform, but the photo is just off by a few degrees, and the sunlight is too harsh. It was probably shot on the same occasion, at a slightly different angle, or on another similar occasion. He seems to have signed "by Hitler", or something like that, but that makes no sense because it is half English. Can someone who reads German make it out?

 

George Kovalenko.

 

Edited June 18, 2011 by rhr

[ingyaningya]

It depends upon what you mean by "What Kind Of Fountain Pen This Is", ingyaningya. I don't know the exact pen brand, but it is definitely a safety eyedropper of some kind. Is your photo part of a larger photo, and can you give us the source of the photo?

 

However, the photo inside your photo, the one being signed, can be identified. I flipped your photo 205 degrees, and this what I got.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/c13e831f.jpg

 

I then did a search in Google Images for "hitler folded arms" and found a few interesting photos. Apparently Hitler was fond of being photographed with his arms folded, the left arm over the right. There is this one with him sitting in that pose on the edge of a fully outfitted desk, except he’s wearing a suit rather than a uniform. I have removed his face in order not to offend anyone.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/61f14bdb.jpg

 

But here's an interesting photo, again with the face removed. It is described as, "Signed Photograph of Hitler by his official photographer, Heinrich Hoffmann, with the title "Reichskanzler ADOLF HITLER" printed below. Showing Hitler, three quarter length, his arms folded in his Reich's chancellor uniform looking to his left. A formal pose reproduced on postcards that was one of Hitler's favorites. Signed by him in jet black ink in the lower portion of the photograph".

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/rhrpen/0637d6d7.jpg

 

The autograph is the same, and so is the uniform, but the photo is just off by a few degrees, and the sunlight is too harsh. It was probably shot on the same occasion, at a slightly different angle, or on another similar occasion. He seems to have signed "by Hitler", or something like that, but that makes no sense because it is half English. Can someone who reads German make it out?

 

George Kovalenko.

 

I got the original photo from the book "Leaders and Personalities of the Third Reich".

As to your question, I can read German. What is in half English?

[rhr]

Maybe with my English bias I misread his autograph. What looks like the English word "by" before his surname might actually be "Af", a contraction, or shortened version of his given name. As for the pen, it still looks like a safety eyedropper, perhaps a Mont Blanc, or Kaweco, or Goldfink, or Salamander, and quite a large one at that, one with a #6 or #8 nib. The clip, however, looks 1930s or 40s.

 

Thanks for the source.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

Edited June 19, 2011 by rhr

[Ashkenazzi]

Sorry for my bad english. But this can help you in your research and remove permanently Montblanc from this "black-list". I love fountain pens and we heard a lot of Hitler history here in Argentina, aka "Hitler's Heaven" (Argentina="Hitler's heaven" because he (and his friends) came here after his "death" by U-boat (ships U-537 or U-977, with mengele, eichman & friends) docking at Mar Del Plata Base (far from the capital and living in Bariloche..very very well documented history in Argentina...but not a happy end history to be filmed/accepted by hollywood...well..well back to the topic).

Hitler's fountain pen would never be a Montblanc because:

1. Montblanc halts its production from ~1936-37 until the end of WWII beacuse of item 2, below;

2. Montblanc was founded and owned by jewish.

3. Hitler knew every single Jewish company. Every leader of every compnay should not be Jew (by law) and they should be on nazi party or leave their company. Its easy to find that even on sports, entertainment companies like football (soccer) teams followed this rule. (Bayern Munchen, the "jews club" is a good example (leaders flee from germany because they were jews. And after this, Nazi leaders demanded they to put a swastika on their club symbol to mean: "owned"). Borussia Dortmund too (leaders were executed by not following Nazi guys)

4. Hitler disliked anything german with french name (you can find his hate about germans who loved/praised "French culture/names" in Mein Kampf chapt 2). And you can see that he even removed the commendation "Pour Le Merite" from germany because of this too (it was a great historic german commendation with french words and name) and he replaced it with a modified version of the Eisernes Kreuz (german name for Iron Cross..no more french names !).

5. They were loved/used by sionists (there were many in germany/europe at that time. The star wasn't exactly a real real Jew simbol, at that time...it was Sionist symbol. Sionists were people who supported the people who lived and/or who wanted to live in palestine (israel was founded in 1946, so no israel name at that time). Of course Sionits were mainly jewsish people. but lots of jews werent sionists) and many people knew about the star above the cap. Of course not everyone... so they created the marketing about snow. Just an ambiguous marketing stuff... and the cap was flat when they started using the "star", so nothing remembering a mountain at 1914 ('90s montblancs owners can check the print of picture of their 1914 advertisement car with the big pen above it. It was used in the '90s, unfortunatelly i havent one here to link/attach).

(I'm pretty sure you can check this all in Deutschland. Thats what we know from Argentina)

 

Montblanc is a 100% "nazi-free" company

 

About the body (not the cap):

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/pelikan-fountain-pen-guide/

http://www.ruettinger-web.de/pelikan-modell-100.html

Its NOT a Pelikan MODELL 100 (explained below) but Pelikan was famous at the time by creating the most sofisticated piston system to date. So it would be a Pelikan clone using the same system. Theres no reason to use other kind of fountain pen system at that time (by a chief of state). They would buy the best avaliable system to use.

Ok, the body is intriguing because the body really looks like a 1929 pelikan modell 100 clone. Its NOT a Pelikan modell 100 but the body is similar (there were many companies at germany making pens/models at that time) so the cap doesnt match (please check the body carefully and compare to the links above). I found another idea about the cap, today, weird, but think about this: many people exchange pen caps today..so why not exchange it in the past when fountain pens were just "pens" ? And many companies buys many pens to their offices. . So why not think about anyhting (german of course) from his office and not exactly something about his personal taste (but of course a nazi-friend company). Hitler wasnt a "pen lover", thats why we dont know which pen he used. We know one of the pocket watches (but watch lovers tend to love more than one brand) is surely JungHans, the militar cloths/boots: Hugo Boss (but come on any coth lover has more than one brand), the car Mercedes-Benz... but nothing about the pen just because he used any avaliable pen(with a Pelikan Piston system of course)

 

So the answer to the kind of fountain pen is: a Pelikan-clone body, 1929 modell 100 (explained above) using the Pelikan piston system (famous and the best at their time. A chief of state like him would only get the best germany had to offer for him)

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ashkenazzi

[Rafael Macia]

Sorry for my bad english. But this can help you in your research and remove permanently Montblanc from this "black-list". I love fountain pens and we heard a lot of Hitler history here in Argentina, aka "Hitler's Heaven" (Argentina="Hitler's heaven" because he (and his friends) came here after his "death" by U-boat (ships U-537 or U-977, with mengele, eichman & friends) docking at Mar Del Plata Base (far from the capital and living in Bariloche..very very well documented history in Argentina...but not a happy end history to be filmed/accepted by hollywood...well..well back to the topic).

Hitler's fountain pen would never be a Montblanc because:

1. Montblanc halts its production from ~1936-37 until the end of WWII beacuse of item 2, below;

2. Montblanc was founded and owned by jewish.

3. Hitler knew every single Jewish company. Every leader of every compnay should not be Jew (by law) and they should be on nazi party or leave their company. Its easy to find that even on sports, entertainment companies like football (soccer) teams followed this rule. (Bayern Munchen, the "jews club" is a good example (leaders flee from germany because they were jews. And after this, Nazi leaders demanded they to put a swastika on their club symbol to mean: "owned"). Borussia Dortmund too (leaders were executed by not following Nazi guys)

4. Hitler disliked anything german with french name (you can find his hate about germans who loved/praised "French culture/names" in Mein Kampf chapt 2). And you can see that he even removed the commendation "Pour Le Merite" from germany because of this too (it was a great historic german commendation with french words and name) and he replaced it with a modified version of the Eisernes Kreuz (german name for Iron Cross..no more french names !).

5. They were loved/used by sionists (there were many in germany/europe at that time. The star wasn't exactly a real real Jew simbol, at that time...it was Sionist symbol. Sionists were people who supported the people who lived and/or who wanted to live in palestine (israel was founded in 1946, so no israel name at that time). Of course Sionits were mainly jewsish people. but lots of jews werent sionists) and many people knew about the star above the cap. Of course not everyone... so they created the marketing about snow. Just an ambiguous marketing stuff... and the cap was flat when they started using the "star", so nothing remembering a mountain at 1914 ('90s montblancs owners can check the print of picture of their 1914 advertisement car with the big pen above it. It was used in the '90s, unfortunatelly i havent one here to link/attach).

(I'm pretty sure you can check this all in Deutschland. Thats what we know from Argentina)

 

Montblanc is a 100% "nazi-free" company

 

About the body (not the cap):

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/pelikan-fountain-pen-guide/

http://www.ruettinger-web.de/pelikan-modell-100.html

Its NOT a Pelikan MODELL 100 (explained below) but Pelikan was famous at the time by creating the most sofisticated piston system to date. So it would be a Pelikan clone using the same system. Theres no reason to use other kind of fountain pen system at that time (by a chief of state). They would buy the best avaliable system to use.

Ok, the body is intriguing because the body really looks like a 1929 pelikan modell 100 clone. Its NOT a Pelikan modell 100 but the body is similar (there were many companies at germany making pens/models at that time) so the cap doesnt match (please check the body carefully and compare to the links above). I found another idea about the cap, today, weird, but think about this: many people exchange pen caps today..so why not exchange it in the past when fountain pens were just "pens" ? And many companies buys many pens to their offices. . So why not think about anyhting (german of course) from his office and not exactly something about his personal taste (but of course a nazi-friend company). Hitler wasnt a "pen lover", thats why we dont know which pen he used. We know one of the pocket watches (but watch lovers tend to love more than one brand) is surely JungHans, the militar cloths/boots: Hugo Boss (but come on any coth lover has more than one brand), the car Mercedes-Benz... but nothing about the pen just because he used any avaliable pen(with a Pelikan Piston system of course)

 

So the answer to the kind of fountain pen is: a Pelikan-clone body, 1929 modell 100 (explained above) using the Pelikan piston system (famous and the best at their time. A chief of state like him would only get the best germany had to offer for him)

Fascinating !

[enchiridion]

 

it is a misunderstanding about Mercedes-Benz. AH had a Maybach but official cars could be any German brand except Opel.

[simp]

That's does'nt seems a 100, and I don't undertand what is suggesting that this should be a piston filler. If it is from 1930 the piston filler was just an year old on the market, a little time to say if it was the best or not. When it was recognized as the best other brands produced piston filler pens.

 

And there are a lot of german producers in 1930: kaweco, soennecken, osmia, goldfink and many other. So why concentrate in Pelikan and Montblanc?

 

Simone

[simp]

That's does'nt seems a 100, and I don't undertand what is suggesting that this should be a piston filler. If it is from 1930 the piston filler was just an year old on the market, a little time to say if it was the best or not. When it was recognized as the best other brands produced piston filler pens.

 

And there are a lot of german producers in 1930: kaweco, soennecken, osmia, goldfink and many other. So why concentrate in Pelikan and Montblanc?

 

Simone

[aawhite]

. . . Hitler wasnt a "pen lover", thats why we dont know which pen he used . . .

 

I tend to agree because he used everyone else's pens.

 

I remember seeing in a documentary where in a single long camera shot, Hitler took the pens of three different officers to use as a pointer or for writing. It just stands out that he did not have an everyday pen, or at least did not bother to bring it with him.

Edited July 20, 2013 by aawhite

[Penne Stilografiche]

It is probably German, because it is being used by Adolf Hitler.

-No stupid answers please, I really need to know. http://www.germaniainternational.com/images2/Hitler/Signed_1940_Portrait/MVC-013S_lg.jpg

Are you sure this is a photo as it looks more like a print of some kind. First, his full signature is on the picture yet the nib's tip is still at the middle of the signature. Plus the whole "picture" does not seem as detailed as a normal photo of that era.

[fionafish]

First, his full signature is on the picture yet the nib's tip is still at the middle of the signature.

 

The pen position could be him lining up to cross the T, but that is just a guess.

 

Fiona

[Penne Stilografiche]

 

The pen position could be him lining up to cross the T, but that is just a guess.

 

Fiona

It very well could be but the "picture" in general looks more like a print. It's weird that the top of the picture would be curving up instead of curving down or being flat.

[GTOZack]

back in 1930s and 40s there was videos of hitler walking among people shaking hands and sometimes signing autographs, the majority of the flims shwoed patrons and admirers handling adolf the headshot photograph and or journal at same time they handled Adolf their pen for him to grab and autograph.

however in his jacket inner pocket he carried a fat simplo by MB almost exclusively. Hitler had several MB at home in his desk, Goering liked watermans there was some stories Adolf taking and jotting down notes at goerings side at the conference table. he looked at goering and commented nice things about it.

 

however germans do get parker, conway stewarts and some no name local pen brands. I am betting this is a Conway Stewart pen that a certain german admirer not showed in photograph above happen to posses.

[coffe_cup]

One for sure! A BIG pen ) What makes me feel it's eyedropper kind (Safety Pen) is that chased part at the end of the body, rarely seen in non-eyedropper pens. I would put my vote on such a pen

 

Great topic, thanks

[Christopher Godfrey]

Very comprehensive and interesting post, Ashkenazzi: do you think it might have been a Geha or Kaweco?

The man in question probably <had> no interest in (fountain) pens, for all we know, if he was always borrowing them from nearby officers? (We <do> know he was quite good/impressive/convincing with his <voice>, however, don't we?)

[Kaweco]

............................ I love fountain pens and we heard a lot of Hitler history here in Argentina, aka "Hitler's Heaven" (Argentina="Hitler's heaven" because he (and his friends) came here after his "death" by U-boat (ships U-537 or U-977, with mengele, eichman & friends) docking at Mar Del Plata Base (far from the capital and living in Bariloche..very very well documented history in Argentina...but not a happy end history to be filmed/accepted by hollywood...well..well back to the topic).

Hitler's fountain pen would never be a Montblanc because:

1. Montblanc halts its production from ~1936-37 until the end of WWII beacuse of item 2, below;

2. Montblanc was founded and owned by jewish.

3. Hitler knew every single Jewish company. Every leader of every compnay should not be Jew (by law) and they should be on nazi party or leave their company. Its easy to find that even on sports, entertainment companies like football (soccer) teams followed this rule. (Bayern Munchen, the "jews club" is a good example (leaders flee from germany because they were jews. And after this, Nazi leaders demanded they to put a swastika on their club symbol to mean: "owned"). Borussia Dortmund too (leaders were executed by not following Nazi guys)

4. Hitler disliked anything german with french name (you can find his hate about germans who loved/praised "French culture/names" in Mein Kampf chapt 2). And you can see that he even removed the commendation "Pour Le Merite" from germany because of this too (it was a great historic german commendation with french words and name) and he replaced it with a modified version of the Eisernes Kreuz (german name for Iron Cross..no more french names !).

5. They were loved/used by sionists (there were many in germany/europe at that time. The star wasn't exactly a real real Jew simbol, at that time...it was Sionist symbol. Sionists were people who supported the people who lived and/or who wanted to live in palestine (israel was founded in 1946, so no israel name at that time). Of course Sionits were mainly jewsish people. but lots of jews werent sionists) and many people knew about the star above the cap. Of course not everyone... so they created the marketing about snow. Just an ambiguous marketing stuff... and the cap was flat when they started using the "star", so nothing remembering a mountain at 1914 ('90s montblancs owners can check the print of picture of their 1914 advertisement car with the big pen above it. It was used in the '90s, unfortunatelly i havent one here to link/attach).

Montblanc is a 100% "nazi-free" company

 

(I'm pretty sure you can check this all in Deutschland. Thats what we know from Argentina)

..............................

 

Hello

So let`s make a check. hitlers escape from Germany in a U- boat in the last hours of the Reich is far away from reality. Nobody escaped from Berlin, no chance for cars or aeroplanes. Actually some of the nazi leaders actually attended in South America but mengele and eichmann (mentioned by Ashkenazzy) or rudel and others had not been in Berlin during the breakdown. They had been imprisoned, set free again or escaped and went. partially years later, along te "rat line" to South America. hitler surely had not been among them. The capture of eichmann and the transport to Israel wasn`t very difficult. So why didn`t the under cover agents capture the führer??? But this story has nothing to do with fountainpens and MB.

quote:1. Montblanc halts its production from ~1936-37 until the end of WWII beacuse of item 2, below;

2. Montblanc was founded and owned by jewish./quote

MB did not halt its production. During wartimes many many fountainpens were needed and the production inflated. Primary each articles, not only fountainpens, were made for the troops. albert speer had transformed the whole industrial production to war production. So no fp producer could fulfil the contracts with their other clients. I have a letter from MB from 1941 where Voss tried to get declarationes from the clients about delivery of fountainprns directly to the troops. There is an original signature from Voss. But surely, MB was not the main producer during the time. An American handbook for their troops about the equipment of the German soldier shows among wheappons, amunitions, clothes etc a Pelikan or an Osmia or a Kaweco fountain pen among other writing articles, like pencils. MB nearly closed the doors during the war after they had been bombed down during an allied attack of Hamburg....not because of Jewish owners. (actually many of the owner`s and financial backers had Jewish names but there is no evidance who had been removed or substituted in 1938)

3) ...........

But, for sure. in each corporation Jewish owners or co- owners had been removed since 1934 and totally (by law) since 1938

5.............

Yes. there is no evidance that the MB sign is a snowflake or the top of a mountain.

quote:

Montblanc is a 100% "nazi-free" company/ quote.

ok. but this would not be easy to prove

Kind Regards

Thomas