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9048 And 9128 Flexibility Rumor


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23 replies to this topic

#1 mccluskeybw

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 17:07

I have been told that there are some 9048 and 9128 nibs that have the numbers along the side of the nib. Furthermore, I was told that these particular nibs were more flexible since the numbering was along the side of the nib. I am very skeptical that there are any differences in the flexibility of nibs based on the placement of the numbers.

First, are there any 9048 or 9128 nibs with the numbering along the side of the nib? Also, is there any truth to the rumor about these nibs with the numbers along the side being any more flexible?

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#2 framebaer

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 18:24

YES, and NO.Posted Image
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#3 FarmBoy

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 19:29

YES, and NO.Posted Image

I concur with Yes and No.

The accepted difference between the numbering (horizontal vs. vertical) is the age of the nib. Later nibs have vertical numbers. I've not seen all the known nib numbers with vertical indications but I assume any they were making at the end had this feature. I suspect as the dies wore out, they were simply modernized with the new look. I do not know when this would have happened, I'd guess early 60s-I have ads from the 50s that show the horizontal numbers.

I personally feel the vertical indicia make the pens more aerodynamic, sort of like a racing stripe.

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#4 dcpritch

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 20:00

... the vertical indicia make the pens more aerodynamic, sort of like a racing stripe....


That's why the newer ones are waaaay faster to write with, and sort of a chick magnet, but there is no appreciable difference in flex from old to new. Also, I don't think these Esterbrook nibs were all that great at flex, regardless of their advertising.

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#5 FarmBoy

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 20:20

... the vertical indicia make the pens more aerodynamic, sort of like a racing stripe....


That's why the newer ones are waaaay faster to write with, and sort of a chick magnet, but there is no appreciable difference in flex from old to new. Also, I don't think these Esterbrook nibs were all that great at flex, regardless of their advertising.

Is that an Esterbrook in your pocket...

Never mind, I haven't had a post deleted since the crash.

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#6 Rabbit

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 01:47

To throw an interesting twist into this, I ran across one of the earliest 9048 nibs (a frosted one), with horizontal numbering, and the metal of the nib is thinner than usual which makes it seem a bit more flexible. It's possible that they were trying to go for a very flexible nib, but then they realized that the metal was too thin and ended up making all other production runs thicker (and possibly tweaking other aspects of the design to maintain flex). This is all theoretical though and not meant to start any new rumors. ;)

--Stephen

#7 79spitfire

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 03:16

IMHO, Flex and Esterbrook seem mutually exclusive (in fountain pens). 9048 and 9128 are more flexible than other Esterbrook nibs, but compared to other flex pens.. Meh... Don't get me wrong, still fun though!

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#8 WestLothian

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 18:46

I did a comparison between the flexible pens that I own to see where the Esterbrook 9128 lies.
This Esterbrook has the vertical 9128 marking and has a range of 0.2 mm to just about 1.2 mm.
To get the full flex gives a reaction of 320 g measured on calibrated scales.

My other pens:

Waterman's, IDEAL 2, CANADA, 12˝ = 110 g
Waterman's, IDEAL 2, CANADA, 52 = 150 g
Waterman's, IDEAL 2A, CANADA, Elegance = 200 g
Mabie Todd, D 535, ENGLAND, Blackbird = 220 g
Esterbrook, 9128, USA, J , = 320 g

#9 pal38

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:29

Now this is a very useful comparison you made here, WestLothian! :notworthy1:

Funny how measurements can remove all guesswork out of heated discussions and bring back the level to cool facts. And one of the facts is: "Esterbrook flexible nibs are flexible, but mainly for hamfisted writers on very sturdy paper."
:roflmho:
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#10 dcpritch

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:01

OK, I decided to compare some flexible nibs that I have inked today, and a 9048 in the middle for comparison. While it flexes more than the Sheaffer Tuckaway Triumph nib, and than the Waterman Thorobred with a B Manifold nib, both of which are absolute nails, it really didn't come close to any other of the vintage nibs in terms of flexibility. All that to say, if you want to experiment with flexible nibs, buying an Estie 9048 or 9128 nib isn't a bad way to start, IMHO, especially in terms of cost (assuming you already have the Estie barrel in which to put it), but I doubt that, if you like flexible nibs, you will end up spending much time with the Estie nibs.

Posted Image

On the other hand, I do like the "Ester-Moore" nib that 777 created for me - a vintage "The Moore Pen" 14k semi-flex nib inserted into an Estie screw-in nib unit. I assume one could do this with any properly sized flexible nib, if you can get a proper feed to fit.

Posted Image
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#11 WestLothian

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 08:06

That looks like an excellent hybrid!
Now where would you get screw-in nib units that take #2 Waterman's?
:thumbup:

#12 Judybug

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 23:34

If anybody out there is unhappy with a 9128 or 9048, please PM me. I love these nibs :cloud9: even if they're nowhere near the wet noodle category. A few months ago I dropped my desk pen, and the 9048 landed on the nib. There's no visible damage, but it's never been the same since. :crybaby:

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#13 pal38

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 23:39

If anybody out there is unhappy with a 9128 or 9048, please PM me. I love these nibs :cloud9: even if they're nowhere near the wet noodle category. A few months ago I dropped my desk pen, and the 9048 landed on the nib. There's no visible damage, but it's never been the same since. :crybaby:

Judybug


Hi Judybug,
In what way it's not the same any more? Can you describe it? Perhaps I can help you.
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#14 Judybug

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:42

If anybody out there is unhappy with a 9128 or 9048, please PM me. I love these nibs :cloud9: even if they're nowhere near the wet noodle category. A few months ago I dropped my desk pen, and the 9048 landed on the nib. There's no visible damage, but it's never been the same since. :crybaby:

Judybug


Hi Judybug,
In what way it's not the same any more? Can you describe it? Perhaps I can help you.


Thanks. It's been several months since this mishap. I remember it being scratchy after the fall. I have company right now, but tomorrow I'll fill it and do a little writing with it. Then I'll be able to better describe its problems.

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#15 Brian Anderson

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 20:04

I have been told that there are some 9048 and 9128 nibs that have the numbers along the side of the nib. Furthermore, I was told that these particular nibs were more flexible since the numbering was along the side of the nib. I am very skeptical that there are any differences in the flexibility of nibs based on the placement of the numbers.


If a vertical 9128 was more flexible than a horizontal 9128 they wouldn't have the same number. Esterbrook was pretty clear on how consistent their nib production was. For every person that tells you (in their grand experience and sample of two nibs) that a vertical 9128 is more flexible than the horizontal, there is someone who thinks the opposite. This is simply a fallacy.

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#16 FarmBoy

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 20:51

I have been told that there are some 9048 and 9128 nibs that have the numbers along the side of the nib. Furthermore, I was told that these particular nibs were more flexible since the numbering was along the side of the nib. I am very skeptical that there are any differences in the flexibility of nibs based on the placement of the numbers.


If a vertical 9128 was more flexible than a horizontal 9128 they wouldn't have the same number. Esterbrook was pretty clear on how consistent their nib production was. For every person that tells you (in their grand experience and sample of two nibs) that a vertical 9128 is more flexible than the horizontal, there is someone who thinks the opposite. This is simply a fallacy.

Brian

So are you saying that Esterbrook wasn't very flexible with its numbering scheme.

OR

Are you saying us old timers are not very flexible?

(For the record I can still touch the ground with my palms but there is still only one color of brown....)

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#17 Judybug

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 12:13

If anybody out there is unhappy with a 9128 or 9048, please PM me. I love these nibs :cloud9: even if they're nowhere near the wet noodle category. A few months ago I dropped my desk pen, and the 9048 landed on the nib. There's no visible damage, but it's never been the same since. :crybaby:

Judybug


Hi Judybug,
In what way it's not the same any more? Can you describe it? Perhaps I can help you.


I know I said there's no visible damage to this pen, but after looking at it with a magnifier, I see that it must have hit the floor on the left side of the nib because the nib is skewed to the right ever so slightly. It's a little scratchier than it was before and it doesn't flex like it did before the fall. So sad. Rest in peace, beloved 9048. :(

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#18 Yuki Onitsura

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 12:26

Don't know how much it's going to help, but here's a writing sample with a 9128 with the numbering going across the nib (perpendicular to the barrel). I used moderate to heavy pressure for the line variation.

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Apologies for the picture quality. As usual, taken using the camera on my mobile phone.

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#19 Licensedtoquill

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 17:18

Don't know how much it's going to help, but here's a writing sample with a 9128 with the numbering going across the nib (perpendicular to the barrel). I used moderate to heavy pressure for the line variation.

Yuki


I dont want to get into an argument about this (or indeed tout my own pens I am selling) but I have an Estie out on ebay at the moment which I have put there to some extent because it is an unusual colour but mainly because I have found that the flex of the 9128 nib is indeed manifest (as opposed to manifold, of course).

I have come across gigantic numbers of Esties over the last 30 years and while I am NOT comparing them to early Watermans, Swans or Moore Safeties, Juki, you have shown that this nib can indeed be quite flexible. I no longer think it entirely fair, having felt this nib, to say that all steel Esties are stiff. Curiously enough, though I didnt think it worthwhile mentioning it in the description, the other pen I have which is marked horizontally (with concave naming and 8 sunburst spray lines above the name, 10 below the MADE IN USA) and which says RELIEF MED (though to me it looks like a stub with some oblique to it) is also not as stiff as most Esties I have ever tried.

Jonathan


#20 WestLothian

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 19:01

Just to add to the numerical comparison I have recently bought a new, old stock 9128.
This one has the 9128 perpendicular to the barrel and the nib is certainly ground to a finer point.
The flexed force for a similar spread of the tines measures on electronic scales is 380g.
This compares with the 320g that I get with the 9128 parallel to the barrel.

I know that this is just a sample and doesn't prove this trend, however it does challenge the consistency argument.






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