Show us your Sheaffer Autographs

[ebrian]

http://showcase.netins.net/web/dytis/288.jpg

Sort of an Autograph - a 29 1/2C. I find it interesting that later smooth hard rubber pens with 14kt trim do not have the Sheaffer Clip impirnt, but this one does. The end of the barrel is marked 291/2, and the threads are raised, but the imprint is a 3-line version. The nib I assume is a later replacement.

[Roger W.]

Eddie;

 

Nice to see the lamp again! Ya, the 2 is slightly out of character but close being mid 20's and the 2 self filling going into the early 20's which should be sported on this peice. 2 9 1/2C 2 size holder and nib with a solid gold band (wide unless modified with the 1/2 as this one is) and a C - clip. Cool pen!

 

Roger W.

[DocNib]

Sort of an Autograph - a 29 1/2C. I find it interesting that later smooth hard rubber pens with 14kt trim do not have the Sheaffer Clip impirnt, but this one does. The end of the barrel is marked 291/2, and the threads are raised, but the imprint is a 3-line version. The nib I assume is a later replacement.

Good morning Eddie (ebrian)!

I just have a question about the lamp in your avatar. In 2004, I sold that same type of lamp to somebody in Phoenix and it had 2-Rosewood Wahl pens and sockets ("tulips")...is it the same lamp or is yours a Sheaffer version? I can't tell from the avatar what pens and sockets are present.

If I remember correctly, the lamp was by Emerlite (sp?) with an acid etched green shade and a diffuser glass which said "Made In Czechoslovakia"...a gorgeous piece!

Thanks for showing it!

DOC

PS--Welcome to FPN!

[Roger W.]

Doc;

 

Since I sold the lamp to Eddie I can answer that it is the one found in the 1928 Sheaffer catalogue (actually described, as the one in the catalogue is a single base as shown in my avatar from a brochure of the period). It is the first time Sheaffer had offered a lamp and though they offered over 20 other models through the years the green shaded lamp was the most attractive IMHO.

 

Roger W.

[wackyjacky1]

As Borat would say, "Woweewow!" You all have provided some beautiful photos!

 

Mine is in my avatar. Lousy scan, but I hope to get a better pic when I get my digital camera back from Canon. I love this pen!

[ebrian]

Roger sold me the lamp a couple of years ago. The OEM for the lamp was Amronlite. I found a different No. 19 set with an accoutants pen with a red taper for the lamp.

[ebrian]

http://showcase.netins.net/web/dytis/IMG_2566.jpg

[Doogy]

added another TD pen/pencil set. can't have too many!

 

http://i14.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7c/3b/ce52_1.JPG

http://i14.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7c/3c/c59e_1.JPG

[david i]

Not sure i showed this Autograph earlier in the post. So many nice Autographs we see. So many black pens.

 

Then we have...

 

:bunny1: This one :bunny1:

 

Yes. OS. Black Pearl.

 

http://removed.xyz/penteech/sheafferbalanceOSnacraut50.jpg

 

regards

 

david

[kirchh]

Not sure i showed this Autograph earlier in the post. So many nice Autographs we see. So many black pens.

 

Then we have...

 

:bunny1: This one :bunny1:

 

Yes. OS. Black Pearl.

Beautiful pen! But in fairness to Pete, he did post an OS Marine Green Autograph back on the first page.

 

I still regret not buying an OS red-veined Grey Pearl Autograph with broad oblique flex nib a few years back at the NY show...

 

--Daniel

[david i]

Good t'be fair, but did i say "only" black pens?

 

david

[Guest PeteWK]

Beautiful pen! But in fairness to Pete, he did post an OS Marine Green Autograph back on the first page.

 

I still regret not buying an OS red-veined Grey Pearl Autograph with broad oblique flex nib a few years back at the NY show...

 

--Daniel

I would feel sick letting that one go as well. As for the colored autographs, I also posted a black and pearl full size on page two and Jay put up a great Marine Green Senior on 2 as well.

 

This little fella is a Radite flattop c. late 1920s. Its only 4.4 inches long and sports a 3-25 nib though I'm unsure if its stock or not.

 

PeteWK

[kirchh]

This little fella is a Radite flattop c. late 1920s.

I date this item to 1931+ based on the clip.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

Good t'be fair, but did i say "only" black pens?

No. Did I say that you had?

 

--Daniel

[david i]

No. Did I say that you had? 

 

Did i say that you said that i had?

 

d

[kirchh]

No. Did I say that you had? 

 

Did i say that you said that i had?

 

d

I answered your question, but you didn't answer mine...

 

--Daniel

[david i]

What wuz your question again?

 

Hell i just worked 16.5 hours overnight.

 

But, i'll be happy to reread tonite if have a lull. Need my 6hrs before doing it all again

 

d

[kirchh]

As for the colored autographs, I also posted a black and pearl full size on page two and Jay put up a great Marine Green Senior on 2 as well.

Yes, there have been several nice non-black Autographs shown here; quite a variety in all.

 

I wonder if Sheaffer ever made a reverse-trim Autograph for the Grey Pearl items.

 

--Daniel

[Guest PeteWK]

This little fella is a Radite flattop c. late 1920s.

I date this item to 1931+ based on the clip.

 

--Daniel

That may well be, don't know. Its not a catalog item, that's for sure. I have, however, learned not to trust clips as much as I once did as the tried and true method for dating. Its pretty good but has its limitations. Richard Binder has a great article about Balance Clip Dating that I used to swear by but (this is just a for instance) he shows the early clip as being the one that very nearly touches the cap band. Then he lists a slightly shorter one as the next generation. In fact they were sold side by side from the beginning and are both in the 1930 catalog. Richard even pictures a pen that bucks the system (can't remember the exact pen without re-reading the article) that has a dated imprint, so it's hard to say.

 

As for your Sheaffer BHR with 14k clip and no cap band, I would say its a frankenpen. It's not in any catalog (not that that makes all the difference). I would say its likely an earlier pen with a replaced nib/section/feed and a shop installed clip. Sheaffer sold silver, gold filled and 14k clips to dealers for both repair and upgrade at a customers request. Could be a genuine item but probably not. So, in that case the clip isn't the deciding factor in dating the pen.

 

In the case of my little pen, its a weird variant. No white dot but the higher grade solid gold fittings and a 3-25 nib to top it all off. A strange pen, late 1920s to 1931. I have no qualms with that.

 

PeteWK

[kirchh]

This little fella is a Radite flattop c. late 1920s.

I date this item to 1931+ based on the clip.

 

--Daniel

That may well be, don't know. Its not a catalog item, that's for sure. I have, however, learned not to trust clips as much as I once did as the tried and true method for dating. Its pretty good but has its limitations. Richard Binder has a great article about Balance Clip Dating that I used to swear by but (this is just a for instance) he shows the early clip as being the one that very nearly touches the cap band. Then he lists a slightly shorter one as the next generation. In fact they were sold side by side from the beginning and are both in the 1930 catalog. Richard even pictures a pen that bucks the system (can't remember the exact pen without re-reading the article) that has a dated imprint, so it's hard to say.

 

As for your Sheaffer BHR with 14k clip and no cap band, I would say its a frankenpen. It's not in any catalog (not that that makes all the difference). I would say its likely an earlier pen with a replaced nib/section/feed and a shop installed clip. Sheaffer sold silver, gold filled and 14k clips to dealers for both repair and upgrade at a customers request. Could be a genuine item but probably not. So, in that case the clip isn't the deciding factor in dating the pen.

 

In the case of my little pen, its a weird variant. No white dot but the higher grade solid gold fittings and a 3-25 nib to top it all off. A strange pen, late 1920s to 1931. I have no qualms with that.

 

PeteWK

I think you're mixing up two concepts: trusting clips (and other features) for dating, and trusting reference guides that refer to clips (and other features) for dating. The fact that Richard's site may have errors doesn't mean that one can't trust clips (or other features) for dating; it means we must always understand that references can have errors, and that it's important to track back references' assertions to their sources to confirm (or up-end) the references' claims.

 

I find clips to be an excellent method for dating pens (or, more precisely, for providing "no earlier than" dates for pens). As with all feature-based dating, this is subject to the continual refinement of our knowledge of when features appeared, but given the ready availability of patents, ads, and reinforcing correlation with other attributes, dating by clip style is quite powerful, I feel.

 

Several specific comments:

 

- The fact that you see both early varieties of Balance clip in the 1930 catalog does not invalidate Richard's assertion that the shorter clip is the next generation, as that next generation's introduction could certainly pre-date the issuance of the 1930 catalog (note that I make no specific claims here -- I am only pointing out a fault in your logic). You assert, "In fact they were sold side by side from the beginning and are both in the 1930 catalog", but as the Balance patent was filed in late 1928 and it was advertised in 1929, your reference to the 1930 catalog provides no support for this claim. Do you have other evidence to support that assertion?

 

- By your reliance on the depictions in the 1930 catalog, you imply that it is reliable as regards the configuration of the pens that were actually being offered at the time. I would generally caution against drawing this conclusion. For example, the 1930 catalog has mocked-up pictures of some items that do not actually exist as shown, as far as I know.

 

- I don't know which example on Richard's site you are referring to that violates the dating he provides; can you point it out?

 

- As regards the pen I have that is BHR with a 14K clip, as you acknowledge, the fact that it is not in any catalog (or, more correctly, it is not in any catalog that you or I know of -- an important distinction often not made) doesn't mean that it is a Frankenpen (consider the many other models of pen that are known to be factory-correct yet uncataloged). You don't offer any evidence for your conclusion that it is probably a Frankenpen (the fact that you believe it could have been created by assembling parts does not, of course, mean that it probably was produced in that way). You state, "Sheaffer sold silver, gold filled and 14k clips to dealers for both repair and upgrade at a customers request." That is an interesting fact; what documents might you have that are the source for that information?

 

- I base the date of 1931+ for your small pen with 14K clip on the design of the clip. Do you have some data that indicates that the clip style on that pen was being produced before 1931?

 

--Daniel