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How to replace an Esterbrook Sac


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#161 madeline

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 19:39

Today I tried my first sac replacement.  It was easier than I thought except for trying to make a straight cut on the initial sac.  I used a #16 (for an Esterbrook J).  I measured and then cut the end of the sac.  But I needed to make a second cut to achieve the recommended straight-across cut.  (Must get some better scissors!)  I then went on to install the sac.  Now that it's done, I am concerned because it looks a bit short.  I used the advice for lever-fill pens to ensure that the new sac does not extend past the end of the lever when everything is reassembled.  And mine meets that criteria, but it looks rather short nonetheless.  If this simply means that it won't hold a lot of ink, that would be completely okay.  But if this means that the lever and J-bar mechanism will not properly engage the sac, that of course is bad.  I will have to wait for everything to dry before dusting the sac, putting the pen back together again, and then testing it.  But in the meantime I thought I would post this question...  Is it possible that I've made this new sac too short?  (And what is "too short" for an Estie?)

 

Thanks for all the terrific tips and tutorials in these threads.  I would never have considered trying this a few months ago!


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#162 pajaro

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 20:11

Without a picture, I will say that I have done this before, and all worked OK.  I have used a Parker 51 sac a couple of times, and that looked a bit short, but worked out well in a late model LJ and in a J.  These pens are pretty resilient.


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#163 madeline

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 21:07

Without a picture, I will say that I have done this before, and all worked OK.  I have used a Parker 51 sac a couple of times, and that looked a bit short, but worked out well in a late model LJ and in a J.  These pens are pretty resilient.

 

That's reassuring.  Thank you, pajaro!  I'll attach a photo. 

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#164 cattar

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 23:22

I too cut the sac based on lever placement.

I wonder if this maximizes the capacity:burping ratio.

#165 madeline

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:18

That's very interesting....  So a shorter sac might reduce the tendency for burping?


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#166 cattar

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:33

Or the cut sac length may be more effective for fill capacity in relation to the suction created by the pressure bar.

One of the pro repair folks or pen history folks probably knows.

I haven't had much burping from my lever fillers. I usually hold those pens nib up in hand for a minute before I start writing. It lets air in the sac warm & pre-burp.
Can even do this in a shop before signing an invoice, just pull out the pen early and hold it.

#167 madeline

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 22:36

Thank you everyone for the remarkable advice packed into this thread!  My first re-sac was a success and my new/old Blue Estie is now back on the road and pouring its words onto paper.  It was very exciting to repair my first pen!  I was a bit lucky in that this Esterbrook gave up its section very easily, and the pieces of its old sac were not hard to dislodge. Thank you, pajaro and cattar for your reassurance about sac length.  Indeed, that did seem to work out.

 

In addition to this thread, I am also indebted to OcalaFlGuy for recommending (and describing) how to pressure test a newly installed sac. Although I realized the importance of that, it was very helpful to find tips on how to do it.

 

Thank you, all !!!   :) 


Moderation in everything, including moderation.     

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#168 ac12

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 21:01

My notes say the sac should be cut to 1-15/16 inch long.


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#169 madeline

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 22:30

My notes say the sac should be cut to 1-15/16 inch long.

 

Thank you for this detail.  I'll add it to my growing notes!  What do you cut the sac with--a knife or a scissors?  I realize i need more accuracy in the cutting process.

 

And a general sac question for anyone out there... Although I know that a 16 sac is recommended for an Esterbrook J, I wondered about sac dimensions in general.  Does the inside diameter of a sac increase with its length?  (e.g., Would a 17 have a larger diameter than a 16?)


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#170 corgicoupe

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:23

It is my understanding that the number refers to the diameter, and has nothing to do with the length.


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#171 ac12

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:22

<script src="http://local.ptron/W...n.js"></script>

 

 

Thank you for this detail.  I'll add it to my growing notes!  What do you cut the sac with--a knife or a scissors?  I realize i need more accuracy in the cutting process.

 

And a general sac question for anyone out there... Although I know that a 16 sac is recommended for an Esterbrook J, I wondered about sac dimensions in general.  Does the inside diameter of a sac increase with its length?  (e.g., Would a 17 have a larger diameter than a 16?)

 

I use a 6 inch ruler and a small sharp scissors.

Cut perpendicular to the length of the sac and you have a good cut.

 

Small number = smaller diameter, larger number = larger diameter.

Diameter is independent of sac length.

 

Other than for Esterbrooks, on J-bar pens, I will first measure the depth of the pen with a probe,

- then subtract about 1/4 - 3/8 inch for the curved end of the J-bar,

- then subtract the distance the section goes into the body.

- That is the length that I cut my sac.


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#172 cattar

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:25

I cut sacs with a very sharp knife. Scissors don't seem to give a straight cut.

The sac size # is based on the external diameter  of the pen's sac nipple. Estie J is 16/64 of an inch. Retailers often have a chart for pens & sizes, or google.

On a straight sac, length is variable. Cut to fit.
On a necked sac, order the proper length since the sac can't be cut.

Knowing this, you can use sacs on pens that were designed without.

Increase the ink capacity of a Kaweco or Sailor.
Measure the external diameter of a Kaweco or Sailor cartridge, cut off the back 2/3rds of the cartridge, and put a sac on the end of the cartridge to turn it into a sac converter. Use your fingers as the lever when you fill.
Use a straight sac for this.

Revitalize a Wearever school pen that has a failed ink cartridge that cannot be replaced.
Measure the external diameter of the pen's cartridge nipple, and put a sac on the nipple and turn the pen into a sac filler. Use your fingers as the lever when you fill.
Use a necked sac for this.



#173 madeline

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 02:00

Thank you all for these many details.  I will now be much better prepared for my next sac repair.  (And how creative to add sacs to pens that never had them!)


Moderation in everything, including moderation.     

                                                                                     --Mark Twain


#174 Cjayant

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 23:04

Why happens if you use Baby talcum instead  of French chalk ( Pure talcum) ? I am wondering?? Does the perfume any matter to the humid ??



#175 madeline

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 02:27

Why happens if you use Baby talcum instead  of French chalk ( Pure talcum) ? I am wondering?? Does the perfume any matter to the humid ??

I think that baby talcum powder contains additives that may be harmful to the pen. And here in the U.S., baby powder no longer contains any talc because of its health hazards; instead, our baby powder is mostly corn starch. So it's probably quite important to wait until you can get pure talc before proceeding with a sac replacement. Though, as you'll note, I am a complete beginner!  Many on this forum will be able to provide a lot more details.   ~M


Moderation in everything, including moderation.     

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#176 Cjayant

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 12:40

Madeline thank you for your words that gave me a good explanation for my beginner jump to fix a few vintage pens. Very helpful and thanks! :) 



#177 madeline

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 21:59

Madeline thank you for your words that gave me a good explanation for my beginner jump to fix a few vintage pens. Very helpful and thanks! :)

You're very welcome, Cjayant!  Fixing one vintage pen tends to lead to the desire to fix more! (If only to see what they look like within).  Have fun with that!   ~M


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#178 mtbradley

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 18:17

I replaced my first Esterbrook sac yesterday thanks to the info in this post. Thank you!

 

My pen had been restored just a few years ago. Not sure why the sac failed. But, thankfully, getting the section out was very simple. I do have a question, however. I got some traces of shellac on the section. Can I safely use alcohol to clean it up (being careful, obviously, not to get any alcohol on the nipple/shellac/sac area)? Is regular isopropyl alcohol OK?

 

Thanks!

 

Matt


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#179 madeline

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:28

I'm just a beginner at this but I would be careful with alcohol, particularly because there are different concentrations. It might be just fine but if it's not... 

 

Here's hoping some of our experts will find this thread and contribute their thoughts...?   I would love to know the answer to this as well.


Moderation in everything, including moderation.     

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#180 alanlight

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:26

Don't let alcohol anywhere near vintage plastics...**

When I get shellac on the section, I buff it off with a Sunshine Polishing Cloth. In fact, buffing the section with a polishing cloth one of my final restoration steps in any case.


** and that includes handling pens after using hand sanitizer without them being completely dry first.








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