Learned To Appreciate C/c Pens Again

[Bo Bo Olson]

Nitty Gritty....I don't know how the nibs were on 'vintage' C/C ' very late '50's-60's-70's pens.

 

I prefer semi-flex or slightly flexible( compared to a wet noodle)'flexi' nibs.

 

I have learned to like my '80s 400 regular flex nib a lot after I got enough semi-flex. It is a very good nib.

 

The few C/C pens I had/have...the nails are mostly sold, or waiting for a nib grind.

The regular flex nibs are 'adequate'. Those are '90's nibs.

 

I see no reason to buy a sub standard modern nib on a C/C pen, and then have to send it off to be made even German '80's good much less '50's better, or stubbed or made Cursive Italic and so on.

 

I've not got the statistics but it appears from reading here, every second or third C/C pen is sent off for nib work.

 

Perhaps because the nibs don't work well as one would wish in first place.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[tonybelding]

I prefer c/c, cos I don't like to fuss with my pens. Yes, I like being able to choose the ink and all that, but the less fuss and bother the better.

 

Could you clarify? To what fuss and bother are you referring?

 

The main things I don't like about C/C pens are the fuss of putting a cartridge into a dry pen and then struggling, struggling, struggling to get the ink started flowing. Or else, the fuss of digging up a syringe to refill a cart. . . or worse, cleaning a cart for reuse.

 

Nothing's easier than a Snorkel and a bottle of ink. The only disadvantage would be if you are travelling and can't take along an ink bottle -- but we have these cute pocket-sized plastic vials (i.e. sample vials) nowadays, that ought to work nicely.

 

 

I'm not one of the contingent that enjoys the ritual of changing ink colors or cleaning the pen.

 

Any fountain pen involves less hassle if you stick with one ink, but I don't see how that pertains much to the filling system.

[wtlh]

Nitty Gritty....I don't know how the nibs were on 'vintage' C/C ' very late '50's-60's-70's pens.

 

I prefer semi-flex or slightly flexible( compared to a wet noodle)'flexi' nibs.

 

I have learned to like my '80s 400 regular flex nib a lot after I got enough semi-flex. It is a very good nib.

 

The few C/C pens I had/have...the nails are mostly sold, or waiting for a nib grind.

The regular flex nibs are 'adequate'. Those are '90's nibs.

 

I see no reason to buy a sub standard modern nib on a C/C pen, and then have to send it off to be made even German '80's good much less '50's better, or stubbed or made Cursive Italic and so on.

 

I've not got the statistics but it appears from reading here, every second or third C/C pen is sent off for nib work.

 

Perhaps because the nibs don't work well as one would wish in first place.

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the filling system being C/C, it is just to do with the fact that most poor quality (not necessarily cheap) pens are also C/C... There is no reason why a C/C pen has to have a nail. Some Japanese pens are a good example.

 

There are more nails in Modern pens for a practical reason, this is because:

 

1) the carbon copy paper that was used so often in business before the wide usage of photocopiers and computers;

 

2) invention and subsequent domination of ball-points, means people are used to pressing the nib down hard. And a flex nib to somebody may be a "very poor quality nib" to somebody else who are not used to fountain pens, and damaged it the first time he tried to write something. Instead of making nibs that are more expensive to produce, and more prone to breakage and expensive warranty repairs, it is an obvious business decision to produce nails. Modern flex nibs are speciality nibs that do not have enough market base to justify it becoming the norm.

 

Modern flexible nibs do exist, but because of the small market base, they inevitably become expensive.

Edited March 13, 2011 by wtlh

[wtlh]

I prefer c/c, cos I don't like to fuss with my pens. Yes, I like being able to choose the ink and all that, but the less fuss and bother the better.

 

Could you clarify? To what fuss and bother are you referring?

 

The main things I don't like about C/C pens are the fuss of putting a cartridge into a dry pen and then struggling, struggling, struggling to get the ink started flowing. Or else, the fuss of digging up a syringe to refill a cart. . . or worse, cleaning a cart for reuse.

 

Nothing's easier than a Snorkel and a bottle of ink. The only disadvantage would be if you are travelling and can't take along an ink bottle -- but we have these cute pocket-sized plastic vials (i.e. sample vials) nowadays, that ought to work nicely.

 

 

I'm not one of the contingent that enjoys the ritual of changing ink colors or cleaning the pen.

 

Any fountain pen involves less hassle if you stick with one ink, but I don't see how that pertains much to the filling system.

 

 

I generally don't use cartridges a lot, as I like the filling process. But I can imaging a situation that a cartridge is infinitely better than filling from bottle: When you run out of ink in middle of meeting or in class taking notes, or doing exams. Part of it is a feeling of reassurance. Having a few carts in your pocket will make you psychologically feel you are never going to worry about ink supply during some important session where you expect the use the pen heavily. Considering no integrated self-filling system can hold a lot more ink than a long int. cart or two short carts stored back-to-back in the pen, having a few extra carts in pocket is definitely more reassuring.

 

I think the whole appeal of the c/c system is the feeling of reassurance: the simplicity and modularity of the system means you don't worry about repairs, and the carts means you never worry about running out of ink, and do not have to remember to fill the pen regularly.

[tonybelding]

Considering no integrated self-filling system can hold a lot more ink than a long int. cart or two short carts stored back-to-back in the pen. . .

 

Now you've got me curious. I just happen to have a Waterman (long) cart right. . . here. . .

 

I measure its capacity at: 1.4cc

 

New Postal Junior bulb-filler: 2.6cc

 

That's a small pen, BTW. The Senior model will obviously hold more.

 

 

I think the whole appeal of the c/c system is the feeling of reassurance: the simplicity and modularity of the system means you don't worry about repairs, and the carts means you never worry about running out of ink, and do not have to remember to fill the pen regularly.

 

I understand what you mean. I've got a whole bag of converters here, so I can always find one that works. However, I do think you overstate some of those points just a bit.

 

Most self-fillers are more robust than converters (because they weren't made to be semi-disposable) and less likely to have problems in the first place. With carts you still have to take care with your pens, not let them dry out or clog, etc. You have the problem of getting the feed primed.

 

I think what irks me the most is the logistical side of things. I can't get any of my favorite inks (mostly Noodler's) in carts, and I can't interchange short carts, long carts, Parker carts, Sheaffer carts, etc. Private Reserve has some decent inks in short carts, but they won't fit my Sheaffers. . . Peyton Street has bulk Sheaffer carts with black Skrip at a great price, but that's not a happy substitute for Noodler's Black. . .

 

And so forth.

 

I've been playing around with some plastic caps (vinyl, I think) that could allow me to conveniently reseal filled Sheaffer carts. That would be one way of making my favorite inks pocketable. I'd have to order hundreds of those caps, though. . . Which means, I'd end up trying to sell/trade/give most of them, if anybody besides me actually wants such a thing.

 

The other think I'm looking at is the sample vial. It's pocket-sized, but more jacket pocket than pants pocket. It's not as convenient to carry as cartridges. Plus, any pen other than a snorkel would require a tissue wipe after filling from it. So. . . Not quite as convenient as carts, but workable.

[stevlight]

I'm like the guy who likes tinkering with his car even if it is running fine. I love taking pens apart and the ritual of cleaning all that are inked on the 1st and 15th of each month. For me that is part of the hobby.

 

I totally understand the convenience of cartridges though but can never get convertors to function properly.

Edited March 13, 2011 by stevlight

[meiers]

I'm like the guy who likes tinkering with his car even if it is running fine. I love taking pens apart and the ritual of cleaning all that are inked on the 1st and 15th of each month. For me that is part of the hobby.

 

 

Pen cleaning as meditation. I get it.

[nicholasyeo]

Yep, as a student, I love cartridges too, as much as I love ink and piston fills...

I like all kinds of pens and filling systems, all have their pros and cons!

[georges zaslavsky]

Interesting thread. I prefer my piston filled, button filled, vac filled, snorkel filled and vacumatic filled pens to any converter exceptions made of my man 100s, expert I and laureats. Personally when I don't use a pen, I rinse it many times as necessary with cold water till the water that I flush from the pen isn't crystal clear. Also a bigger ink availability is made for piston, vacumatic, button filler, touchdown, aerometric, snorkel and vac filled pens.

[chrevbel]

Interesting thread.

Indeed. Philosophically, I don't see the difference between converters and piston-fillers, to be honest. Aren't they essentially the same thing, with the converter simply being a piston that's accessible from inside the pen body?

[samroberto]

Each type of filler has its benefits and disadvantages. I suspect if we were having this conversation a century ago, there would be complaints that self-fillers lack the simplicity and elegance of EDs. To me, I prefer the design of self-fillers because I find a pleasing wholeness to the pen, with the filling mechanism an integral part of the pen's construction. It's a bit like the comparison of a horse to a bicycle. Both can move you about, but only the horse is an integrated whole, more than the sum of its parts. A bicycle, at the end of the day, is still just an assemblage of separately operating pieces. At the same time, a bicycle is more trustworthy (ever been kicked by a bicycle?) and undeniably easier to maintain and repair. I wouldn't denigrate horses or bicycles, but rather seek to appreciate each on its own terms.

 

Which is a long-winded way of saying I like the look of my Waterman 55 RRHR more than my Sailor 1911, but it's the latter I use to experiment with new or exotic inks. I wouldn't give up either and appreciate both (and my Parker 51, Waterman Carene, Aurora AS 022 ...).

 

I enjoyed reading this pearl. Well stated!

 

- I understand that Conway Stewart offers varying mechanisms depending upon the pen. Do any of you use the "Twist Fill" and if so how do you like it? I haven't used a mechanism quite like the one on the CS Winston before.. I'm currently looking up a few threads on it so please bear with me if it's a bit of an ignorant question.

 

This thread, however, shook me a little bit:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/161941-major-adjustment-to-a-twist-filler/page__p__1614389__hl__%2Bconway+%2Bstewart+%2Bwinston__fromsearch__1#entry1614389

 

Yikes. Something I wouldn't be happy with?

 

And- I think I'd have to agree with the notion that an integrated system seems more beautiful, more complete. To me at least, it's that sort of antique (albeit it does often require more hassle, more care, more effort) pleasure that I enjoy most.

[ethernautrix]

I prefer c/c, cos I don't like to fuss with my pens. Yes, I like being able to choose the ink and all that, but the less fuss and bother the better.

 

Could you clarify? To what fuss and bother are you referring?

 

The main things I don't like about C/C pens are the fuss of putting a cartridge into a dry pen and then struggling, struggling, struggling to get the ink started flowing. Or else, the fuss of digging up a syringe to refill a cart. . . or worse, cleaning a cart for reuse.

 

Nothing's easier than a Snorkel and a bottle of ink. The only disadvantage would be if you are travelling and can't take along an ink bottle -- but we have these cute pocket-sized plastic vials (i.e. sample vials) nowadays, that ought to work nicely.

 

 

I'm not one of the contingent that enjoys the ritual of changing ink colors or cleaning the pen.

 

Any fountain pen involves less hassle if you stick with one ink, but I don't see how that pertains much to the filling system.

 

 

First, "fuss" and "bother" are subjective. To them that enjoy dipping nibs into ink and twisting knobs or pumping levers or pushing Touchdowns, those things will never be "fuss and bother."

 

I prefer not to have to wipe the nib after filling, for instance. "Fuss and bother?" some might say, questioning my low threshhold. Yep. Hey, it's me; it's not you.

 

Also, I like to see the level of ink.

 

I would use ballpoints and rollerballs happily, but I prefer the feel of nibs on paper.

 

I'd say, contradicting myself, that an Aurora Optima is easier than your Sheaffer Snorkel (having experience with both). I've had dismal luck with Snorkels. I couldn't tell how much ink was getting in there, which produced a very low but registering anxiety. I'd watched the level of ink in the bottle... and I carried a bottle of ink around. I tried this a few times over three years, and I didn't enjoy the "fuss and bother." I liked the nibs (two Snorkels), but the overall experience was a negative.

 

The Aurora Optima has a smooth piston mechanism and an ink window. I have to wipe the nib, sure, but that step doesn't elicit any anxiety given how easy it is to fill.

 

But I didn't use it much, because it was so hard to clean. Twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, GAH! Twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist, twist.

 

Then I realized I could just take the nib out. Heh.

 

Still, I'd have to carry a bottle of ink around.

 

 

So what do I do? I use Nakayas (gorgeous c/c pens). And I use a syringe to fill both the cartridges and converters, but sometimes I'll fill straight from a bottle.

 

"But, Lisa, isn't using a syringe more fussy than the Aurora Optima? And what's the difference between using a converter and a piston-filler?"

 

Using the syringe doesn't seem more fussy to me, because it's a cleaner method, meaning I don't have to wipe the nib.

 

The difference between a converter and a piston-filler is that the former is a Nakaya.

 

Again, I'm not trying to persuade anyone that my methods are less fussy or more desirable. I'm saying, this is why I prefer c/c.

 

Moreover, I reserve the right to change my mind whenever, if ever, I start to prefer using another kind of pen.

[CatBookMom]

Newbie here. I've carefully gotten converters for all of my c/c pens, and my newest pens - Parker 51, Parker Duofold, Namiki Falcon, TWSBI - are built-in fillers, twist or squeeze. And, not too surprisingly considering I've been mechanically-challenged all my life, I struggle with converters and fillers: you have to burp the air out to try to get the maximum fill; sometimes the pen will get dryish in the middle and there's the burping again; plus that usually means lots of ink on the fingers from the burping or getting the pen deep enough into the ink bottle.

 

Back when I started using my mundane little Sheaffer cartridge school pens, most of us found a way to get a little syringe (very exciting back 40-50 years ago - it was a needle!) so we could refill the cartridges, because they cost 10 cents each, a lot in those days. Hardly ever much ink on my fingers. No burping required.

 

I may be going back to the cartridges as much as possible. My comfort level of mechanical-ness. :embarrassed_smile:

Edited March 13, 2011 by CatBookMom

[Phormula]

...

Again, I'm not trying to persuade anyone that my methods are less fussy or more desirable. I'm saying, this is why I prefer c/c.

 

Moreover, I reserve the right to change my mind whenever, if ever, I start to prefer using another kind of pen.

 

Well said!

 

For my kind of use of a FP cartridges are far more practical and for office use cheaper than bottled ink. I got enough ink on my fingers when I was a student. But I don't want to persuade anyone as well and maybe one day I'll change my mind.