Pens In World War Two

[WanderingAuthor]

Speaking as a historian here, you hit upon exactly why historians don't look up things like this! :roflmho:

 

That, and the way the system works today (in terms of getting $ to do research and to write and publish articles and books based on said research) is that things like this have to be relevant to a larger theme.

 

Translation: If FPs didn't play a major role in WWII, no money for you to look this up!

 

Sad but true.

 

I do understand why they don't; I'm a former professional genealogist. (I am actually the author of the post you quoted.) The question was really intended as a joke - although, if you should ever choose to remedy this shocking defect in our historical knowledge, I certainly won't try to dissuade you.

[scribere]

Speaking as a historian here, you hit upon exactly why historians don't look up things like this! :roflmho:

 

That, and the way the system works today (in terms of getting $ to do research and to write and publish articles and books based on said research) is that things like this have to be relevant to a larger theme.

 

Translation: If FPs didn't play a major role in WWII, no money for you to look this up!

 

Sad but true.

 

I do understand why they don't; I'm a former professional genealogist. (I am actually the author of the post you quoted.) The question was really intended as a joke - although, if you should ever choose to remedy this shocking defect in our historical knowledge, I certainly won't try to dissuade you.

 

Oh, my apologies! I didn't intend for my post to come across as a snarky retort or anything like that. I do apologise if it did - that was assuredly unintentional on my part.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind a project like this, actually! I like 'small' historical questions and issues as opposed to the bigger ones and the topics du jour. (Probably because I got utterly sick of the 'standard' essays I had to write in university - blargh.)

 

It really would be fascinating, actually, because I'm very interested in Canada's relationship with the UK and the Empire during the war, and now you've got me wondering what small, everyday items Canada supplied to the UK during the war, especially considering the high importance the UK placed upon reusing and recycling during and after the war.

 

If anyone here wants to support me in looking this up, I'm all for it! All I ask is for a plane ticket to London and accommodations for a while and I'm good to go - hahaha.

 

Well, I should probably check first, see if London is where I need to go.

 

And that's awesome! Genealogy's so much fun, isn't it?

[WanderingAuthor]

Oh, my apologies! I didn't intend for my post to come across as a snarky retort or anything like that. I do apologise if it did - that was assuredly unintentional on my part.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind a project like this, actually! I like 'small' historical questions and issues as opposed to the bigger ones and the topics du jour. (Probably because I got utterly sick of the 'standard' essays I had to write in university - blargh.)

 

It really would be fascinating, actually, because I'm very interested in Canada's relationship with the UK and the Empire during the war, and now you've got me wondering what small, everyday items Canada supplied to the UK during the war, especially considering the high importance the UK placed upon reusing and recycling during and after the war.

 

If anyone here wants to support me in looking this up, I'm all for it! All I ask is for a plane ticket to London and accommodations for a while and I'm good to go - hahaha.

 

Well, I should probably check first, see if London is where I need to go.

 

And that's awesome! Genealogy's so much fun, isn't it?

 

My apologies in return; I didn't mean to imply that you were being snarky. I simply thought you'd missed the joke.

 

And yes, those who decide what topics are important enough for funding aren't always in tune with my own opinions. Understanding how the supply of something as necessary and basic as writing implemented was handled in the wartime economy, both for the military and for civilians, just might yield information of real interest or use. I'm afraid if I could afford to fund your trip, I'd be making it myself instead, though. I find research quite a lot of fun, if I'm tracking down an interesting question.

 

And, yes, genealogy is fun, and it can shed quite a bit of light on history, too. I actually expanded my own understanding of the way certain issues were handled during World War Two thanks to a family story and my own dismally unsuccessful efforts to find records of that story. It turned out to be an interesting lesson in not imposing our own perspectives on past events. (My great-grandmother, a British subject, was evacuated [transport for her and others arranged, instructions to tell no one about her plans to leave, and so on] from Dublin in 1940 and came to the US to live with my grandparents. I thought the tale had been embellished - until I discovered her passenger arrival record and learned she reached New York in very early October of 1940 - so her trip across England and the North Atlantic would have been pretty hairy [she spoke of having to flee into the fields from a train due to strafing, blackouts, a bomb crater outside her hotel's front door, and her ship dropping depth charges]. So then I went crazy trying to hunt down records of this evacuation. No luck. What I finally worked out must have happened was roughly this: individual British Subjects got anxious about their safety in the Irish Free State, and approached the British Embassy in Dublin for help. With the government busy with much more important things, some harassed undersecretary whose job it was to help distressed British subjects put together an evacuation more or less on his own, with just enough help from the appropriate places to make it work. And if there is a paper trail, it is buried deep in other mundane records, perhaps including similar ad-hoc emergency arrangements. But, since in our world such an evacuation would be a formal operation, I was seeking records of such a thing. )

[Fmrvette]

 

And I never even thought of trying to track down a Quartermaster's manual. That's an excellent idea. Some military museum is bound to have one, I would think.

 

 

Are you near Washington DC? The Library of Congress seems to have quite a collection of items dating 1939-1945 and a librarian there might lead you to what you want to know. I've had no luck researching on line and am not close enough to Washington to run over and take a peek.

 

Of course the VFW might be a resource - there's bound to be a few quartermasters from that era still around with memories intact. (No snark intended; I served in Vietnam and for the life of me can't recall the makes/models of pens used back at base. They were ball points for certain, for I would remember FP's being used. But I draw a total blank on what type of ball point. I flew right seat in OV1 Mohawks, and used either pencils (wood) for in flight notes or grease pens for marking maps (the grease pen would wipe off of the plastic covered map, allowing the next mission to be plotted on the same map). The left seat (pilot) would update the aircraft logbook in ink - but again I can't recall the type of ball point used.

 

I've gotta admit I've spent more time on this topic than I should have, and have come up empty (although a number of off topic web results were fun to read!).

 

A question so simple should have an answer readily at hand...

[scribere]

Oh, my apologies! I didn't intend for my post to come across as a snarky retort or anything like that. I do apologise if it did - that was assuredly unintentional on my part.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind a project like this, actually! I like 'small' historical questions and issues as opposed to the bigger ones and the topics du jour. (Probably because I got utterly sick of the 'standard' essays I had to write in university - blargh.)

 

It really would be fascinating, actually, because I'm very interested in Canada's relationship with the UK and the Empire during the war, and now you've got me wondering what small, everyday items Canada supplied to the UK during the war, especially considering the high importance the UK placed upon reusing and recycling during and after the war.

 

If anyone here wants to support me in looking this up, I'm all for it! All I ask is for a plane ticket to London and accommodations for a while and I'm good to go - hahaha.

 

Well, I should probably check first, see if London is where I need to go.

 

And that's awesome! Genealogy's so much fun, isn't it?

 

My apologies in return; I didn't mean to imply that you were being snarky. I simply thought you'd missed the joke.

 

And yes, those who decide what topics are important enough for funding aren't always in tune with my own opinions. Understanding how the supply of something as necessary and basic as writing implemented was handled in the wartime economy, both for the military and for civilians, just might yield information of real interest or use. I'm afraid if I could afford to fund your trip, I'd be making it myself instead, though. I find research quite a lot of fun, if I'm tracking down an interesting question.

 

And, yes, genealogy is fun, and it can shed quite a bit of light on history, too. I actually expanded my own understanding of the way certain issues were handled during World War Two thanks to a family story and my own dismally unsuccessful efforts to find records of that story. It turned out to be an interesting lesson in not imposing our own perspectives on past events. (My great-grandmother, a British subject, was evacuated [transport for her and others arranged, instructions to tell no one about her plans to leave, and so on] from Dublin in 1940 and came to the US to live with my grandparents. I thought the tale had been embellished - until I discovered her passenger arrival record and learned she reached New York in very early October of 1940 - so her trip across England and the North Atlantic would have been pretty hairy [she spoke of having to flee into the fields from a train due to strafing, blackouts, a bomb crater outside her hotel's front door, and her ship dropping depth charges]. So then I went crazy trying to hunt down records of this evacuation. No luck. What I finally worked out must have happened was roughly this: individual British Subjects got anxious about their safety in the Irish Free State, and approached the British Embassy in Dublin for help. With the government busy with much more important things, some harassed undersecretary whose job it was to help distressed British subjects put together an evacuation more or less on his own, with just enough help from the appropriate places to make it work. And if there is a paper trail, it is buried deep in other mundane records, perhaps including similar ad-hoc emergency arrangements. But, since in our world such an evacuation would be a formal operation, I was seeking records of such a thing. )

 

Yeah. I'm in the middle of a genealogy project myself. I've been tracking down my grandfather's records from WWII and have been finding out some pretty fascinating stuff about his actions during the war. He fought with the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, ended up pretty much all over Europe, and it's just fascinating being able to sit down and read his paperwork and go from there. The best kind of detective story, if you ask me!

 

I suspect this will become a life-long interest, as projects like these tend to bring up more questions than they answer, and that's just fine by me!

[WanderingAuthor]

Are you near Washington DC? The Library of Congress seems to have quite a collection of items dating 1939-1945 and a librarian there might lead you to what you want to know. I've had no luck researching on line and am not close enough to Washington to run over and take a peek.

 

Of course the VFW might be a resource - there's bound to be a few quartermasters from that era still around with memories intact. (No snark intended; I served in Vietnam and for the life of me can't recall the makes/models of pens used back at base. They were ball points for certain, for I would remember FP's being used. But I draw a total blank on what type of ball point. I flew right seat in OV1 Mohawks, and used either pencils (wood) for in flight notes or grease pens for marking maps (the grease pen would wipe off of the plastic covered map, allowing the next mission to be plotted on the same map). The left seat (pilot) would update the aircraft logbook in ink - but again I can't recall the type of ball point used.

 

I've gotta admit I've spent more time on this topic than I should have, and have come up empty (although a number of off topic web results were fun to read!).

 

A question so simple should have an answer readily at hand...

 

Not near enough. I'm in Massachusetts. Maybe someday if I am down that way, and have the chance. I'll keep it in mind, so if I ever do find myself with the opportunity, I can run with it.

 

I somehow suspect that anyone who would recall the brand of pens used in World War Two would already be on here. That just isn't the kind of detail you remember, unless the subject fascinates you. Although if I do get the chance, I'll certainly ask any vets I can pigeonhole. Even if they weren't quartermasters (who knows who might have one of the old pens kicking around in their attic - even if they don't want to sell it, getting a look at one would be one good way to solve the problem).

 

You wouldn't believe the "simple" questions that prove difficult to answer. But now that I'm thinking about this, I don't plan on giving up until I have an answer, and I promise I'll post whatever I find here on FPN.

[WanderingAuthor]

Yeah. I'm in the middle of a genealogy project myself. I've been tracking down my grandfather's records from WWII and have been finding out some pretty fascinating stuff about his actions during the war. He fought with the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, ended up pretty much all over Europe, and it's just fascinating being able to sit down and read his paperwork and go from there. The best kind of detective story, if you ask me!

 

I suspect this will become a life-long interest, as projects like these tend to bring up more questions than they answer, and that's just fine by me!

 

It's amazing the things you come up with. I have my great-uncle's shoulder patches from WWII (he was the son of the woman who evacuated), and my hair stood up on end when I re-read A Bridge Too Far, about Operation Market Garden, because the flag Daphne du Maurier sewed for "Boy" Browning's Parachute Regiment is exactly the device on the patch I have (the other patch is a parachute, which fits). I just wish when he was alive he hadn't dodged questions about what he did in the war, although at least now I have some idea why.

 

I read the book when I was younger, before I had ever seen the patches, but of course I didn't recall that particular detail. Hmm... this gets me thinking. I wonder what sort of pen Browning favoured? Or what kind of pen his wife used...

Edited February 19, 2011 by WanderingAuthor

[Barry Gabay]

One of the most sentimental pieces in my collection is the Parker 51 pen and pencil set (black double jewel with GF caps) which one of my dad's very good friends carried through North Africa, Sicily, and Italy with the US Army. His son gave it to me several years ago. My dad's own Parker 51 along with his college ring (NYU class of 1940) is on the bottom of the Pacific. His transport was torpedoed in the Philippines. Serving with US Army forward artillery, he earned two Purple Hearts in the Philippines and Okinawa. Not sure what he used for writing home. Also in my collection are bottles of Sheaffer, Parker, and Carter's V-Mail ink.

[scribere]

Yeah. I'm in the middle of a genealogy project myself. I've been tracking down my grandfather's records from WWII and have been finding out some pretty fascinating stuff about his actions during the war. He fought with the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, ended up pretty much all over Europe, and it's just fascinating being able to sit down and read his paperwork and go from there. The best kind of detective story, if you ask me!

 

I suspect this will become a life-long interest, as projects like these tend to bring up more questions than they answer, and that's just fine by me!

 

It's amazing the things you come up with. I have my great-uncle's shoulder patches from WWII (he was the son of the woman who evacuated), and my hair stood up on end when I re-read A Bridge Too Far, about Operation Market Garden, because the flag Daphne du Maurier sewed for "Boy" Browning's Parachute Regiment is exactly the device on the patch I have (the other patch is a parachute, which fits). I just wish when he was alive he hadn't dodged questions about what he did in the war, although at least now I have some idea why.

 

I read the book when I was younger, before I had ever seen the patches, but of course I didn't recall that particular detail. Hmm... this gets me thinking. I wonder what sort of pen Browning favoured? Or what kind of pen his wife used...

 

That's so neat! I know my grandfather fought in the Netherlands as well. Will have to check his records, see if the dates and locations at least coincide with Market Garden, and if they do, I'll have to do some more digging.

 

And now you've got me wondering what pen McCrae used when he composed In Flanders Fields (assuming it wasn't a pencil)....

[Shangas]

I believe cheap eyedropper or pellet-fed fountain pens were popular during WWI. It was up to the soldier to look after his pen and to find ink for it, though. Certainly no 'service issued' pens back then.

[Jerome Tarshis]

I was a child in the United States during World War II, though not an oblivious child. Our next-door neighbors were Scottish, and stayed in touch with their relatives in North Britain. My older cousins served in World War II, in Europe and the Pacific. My father was an air-raid warden.

 

It seems unlikely that the British government would issue fountain pens to air raid wardens. Or indeed that governments would issue fountain pens to anybody. A fountain pen was a personal possession. There might well be provided desk pens as part of the appurtenances of an executive office, but people had their own fountain pens. Or they didn't. Two things we have so far left out of consideration are dip pens and typewriters. Dip pens were still in widespread use during the 1930s for office work, and it should be possible to find out from books about daily life in England (there are such books) when Whitehall stopped using dip pens. As for typewriters, armies and navies have God's own plenty of clerk-typists. For that matter, if my father had ever had to write a report on an air raid he would have typed it. Air-raid wardens were living in their own homes.

 

My memory is imperfect, but I worked in the home office of New York Life during the 1950s and I wouldn't be astonished if we were all using dip pens. I used one in elementary school, and for more than a hundred years office work ran on dip pens. If we used fountain pens, they certainly weren't provided by the company. Ink was. Pencils were. Paper was. With fountain pens you were on your own.

 

We have had on FPN and also on Pentrace many accounts of letters written home by Dad or Granddad, using a fountain pen, possibly given by the man's wife or his parents. I don't remember ever reading a posting about letters written home with a government-issue fountain pen. Doesn't mean it never happened. This has actually been discussed before on FPN, and I don't remember any concrete suggestion that the United States government did it. As for England, it was a poorer country, on the average.

 

However, one thing we might ascertain, which would cast some light on this question, is whether police officers were issued fountain pens. It can't be prohibitively difficult to find out. If they weren't, not much chance that air-raid wardens (who were volunteers) would have been. My father was issued a white helmet to identify him, and I'm prepared to believe his English counterparts had in addition to a white helmet something like a Sam Browne belt in white, which would stand out in the dark. Fountain pens are an idea that strikes me as a mistaken analogy to the present situation where the office supply closet has throwaway ball-point pens. Things were different then.

[WanderingAuthor]

I suspect, for the most part, you're right. I did see, on e-Bay, one pen on offer which was US Army olive green, and identified as a military pen from World War Two. I don't know how rare that is, but apparently they did exist. I doubt that air raid wardens were issued official pens - I was throwing the question out there, just in case.

 

The thing is, if you make any assumption, you don't know what you might miss. One poster in this thread - whose father was in the RAF - noted that Onoto made special pens for the RAF with hidden compartments for (presumably tiny) maps. I never would have even thought that such things existed. I'm stirring the pot, provoking a discussion of all these issues, in the hope of learning as much as I can about any specific types of pen tied - officially or not - to the Allied effort in World War Two.

 

Even if they were a personal item, I'd be fascinated if anyone with enough knowledge of the subject even volunteered that they knew of two wardens, one who used pen X and the other who used pen Y. And I find your observation about dip pens interesting as well - I had never imagined that they were so common at such a late date. It is interesting to learn that many people would still have been using this type of pen, even with fountain pens having been available for decades. Again, that may be my modern attitude showing; we are so ready now to adopt every new technology, we may underestimate how slowly such things were taken up in the past.

[Shangas]

I think Jerome has hit on something that up to now, we've all glazed over.

 

We're talking about FOUNTAIN PENS.

 

Not ballpoint pens. FOUNTAIN PENS.

 

This is significant because in the 1930s and 40s, a fountain pen was considered an expensive, personal item that you bought for yourself. Or that you received as a gift. Giving out fountain pens like candy during the war would be like a company today giving out Rolex watches to every new employee. It simply wasn't done.

 

I think we're confusing the fountain pen, what was considered an important tool and and a personal posession, with the cheap, mass-produced ballpoint pens that we have today which are emblazoned with any and every concievable logo and company name imaginable. This wasn't done with a fountain pen because they were too expensive. And especially not in war time when fountain pens became increasingly rare.

[WanderingAuthor]

I think Jerome has hit on something that up to now, we've all glazed over.

 

We're talking about FOUNTAIN PENS.

 

Not ballpoint pens. FOUNTAIN PENS.

 

This is significant because in the 1930s and 40s, a fountain pen was considered an expensive, personal item that you bought for yourself. Or that you received as a gift. Giving out fountain pens like candy during the war would be like a company today giving out Rolex watches to every new employee. It simply wasn't done.

 

I think we're confusing the fountain pen, what was considered an important tool and and a personal posession, with the cheap, mass-produced ballpoint pens that we have today which are emblazoned with any and every concievable logo and company name imaginable. This wasn't done with a fountain pen because they were too expensive. And especially not in war time when fountain pens became increasingly rare.

 

There is some truth to this. And yet...

 

One mention on this thread refers specifically to pens made for the RAF. I've seen one pen on e-Bay that was olive green, and the description said it was made for the US Army in World War Two. I don't know the exact cost of the less expensive fountain pens at the start of the war, or what the equivalent would be in today's prices. But there are hints that at least some pens were issued, for at least some purposes.

 

When I wrote the original post, I wasn't under the illusion that every solider was issued a pen. Most soldiers would not have needed one. At least not to perform their duties. And my allusion to air raid wardens was not made in any real expectation, just a hope, since the Blitz is a topic of endless fascination to me. But I did think that there might have been cases; clerks, higher ranking officers, or whatever, where pens might have been issued. And there are tantalising clues this might have been the case, at least in some isolated situations.

 

No matter how unusual those situations, I find those instances fascinating. The pens in question are probably rare, and well out of my price range. But I'm not ready to give up digging for any clues I can find. Actually, the varied dimensions this thread has taken are much more interesting, to me at least, than a one-size-fits-all generic answer would have been.

[welch]

I doubt that fountain pens were issued, but I know that the US Navy, at least, ordered inkwells. I have seen at least two types. For a good example, check the spill-proof inkwell down towards the bottom of this page:

 

http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/U.S.%20Navy%20Items.htm

 

Only $10, and a good inkwell. I bought one. Would have worked equally well with a dip pen or a fountain pen; would not have spilled unless the ship capsized.

 

**

 

On the original question, I think the evidence exists, but would be found in the US archives, or the Navy and Army archives. The US Navy, for instance, has ship muster logs going back to 1801; I can't imagine that the War Department and the Navy Department threw out all the paper they generated during WW2. Same for the UK. Maybe they have begun to scan some of that paper, but the records will be somewhere.

 

The hard work is to dig it up as you figure out what is relevant. Writing history is hard, in part because it is hard to prove that a chunk of data is relevant, or is complete enough to be believed.

[wkspear]

I've never seen evidence of issued pens, but of course as many have already noted there were design adaptations, such as the military clip (many producers modified their clips, Sheaffer most famously). I just wanted to note that the years just before and during the war were extraordinary for pen designs: the Parker 51 Vacumatic, the Eversharp Skyline, the Waterman Hundred Year Pen, and the Sheaffer Triumph were all wartime innovations, occuring roughly between 1939-1942. The Vac-fill came in the mid-1930s and the Snorkel just after the war - nonetheless WWII was one of the high points for pen designs. Esterbrook Js were introduced during the war also. Pretty much everyone in the business came up with some of their best designs at this period. I imagine if they were to issue a pen off the shelf it would be a Wearever or Esterbrook, and certainly not a Sheaffer or Parker. As someone noted, the pencil was still a common writing instrument; pens were prestige items, something you'd give as a very special holiday gift.

[nxn96]

Well, I do know that Kenneth Parker kept Eisenhower well supplied with pens, but I don't suppose that's what the OP meant....

 

I think we're also forgetting the degree to which pencils were used for most writing needs back in the pre-ballpoint days. Most offices provided paper, wooden pencils and ink to refill your fountain pen. If you wanted a fountain pen or a mechanical pencil, you bought your own. To the extent pens were required for particular clerical tasks, the worker probably had a desk pen with a chain to the base. Probably much the same in the military.

 

In all the writeups I've read concerning the histories of Parker and Sheaffer- two of the largest producers of fountain pens in that era, I've never seen one reference production of pens in any volume specifically for the military. Most of those writings typically address the production constraints due to material shortages during the war.

[Fmrvette]

It seems unlikely ..that governments would issue fountain pens to anybody. A fountain pen was a personal possession. There might well be provided desk pens as part of the appurtenances of an executive office....Dip pens were still in widespread use during the 1930s for office work..... Fountain pens are an idea that strikes me as a mistaken analogy to the present situation where the office supply closet has throwaway ball-point pens. Things were different then.

 

Ah, I wasn't considering rear echelon office work (probably as a result of my own service time); I was thinking more of field operations,wherein if ink was required a dip pen might not have been the best choice.

 

There's the old sergeant's joke about why he wasn't married: "If I needed a wife the Army would have issued me one."

 

Ballpoints may be a poor analogy - perhaps a better analogy would be sunglasses.

 

Sunglasses, when I was working for Uncle Sam in the late 1960's, were a "personal item" - but OV1 flight crews were issued sunglasses spec'd out for aviation use by the medical corps. Sunglasses were considered to be a job requirement for aviators; most ground troops or rear echelon wouldn't have had a pair routinely issued. For me it was personally very helpful - in the late 1960's prescription sunglasses were not inexpensive items. Prior to the military I had never owned a pair.

 

(Interestingly, perhaps, was that pistol holsters were NOT considered to be a job requirement for OV1 crews in Vietnam; there was a pitiful excuse for a holster sewn into the survival vest and that was considered to be sufficient. If one wanted something more secure or comfortable one had to purchase a holster as a "personal item" - or con one out of a friendly supply clerk).

 

If (and that may be a large if) a WWII field ops job required ink, then there may have been FP spec'd out and issued to the personnel who that that specific MOS.

 

The question would be - which WWII MOS (if any) required the use of ink, but was mobile enough to preclude the guaranteed availability of an inkwell for a dip pen?

Edited February 21, 2011 by Fmrvette

[jar]

Looking at the definitive resource for everyday GI life during WWII, UP Front, there are five pencils shown, many typewriters and no pens.

[WanderingAuthor]

Well, I do know that Kenneth Parker kept Eisenhower well supplied with pens, but I don't suppose that's what the OP meant....

 

Actually, as the OP, I am interested in any information or details relating to pens and World War Two. So, thanks for that tidbit!