Mabie Todds

February 12, 2011

I lucked out today at a local antiques shop and found a Parker 45 fp and mp set in GREAT condition for $10. I already cleaned out the pen and inked it up and it writes a wide fine line (more of a medium, I think). Anyway, I'm pretty pleased with my purchase.

But, I'm posting this because I found another antiques shop whose owner says she has a "box" of fountain pens that she will bring in for me next week. She said that she has mostly "English brands" like Mabie Todd and Parker. My problem now is that I know absolutely nothing about Mabie Todds and what sort of prices they run. Can anybody out there give me an idea of a price range to stay under?

I know to look for (and avoid) a loose lever. And also to examine the nib to make certain that it is not bent, the tines are aligned, and the tip round. I don't have any experience with piston fillers (aside from my TWSBI). What do I need to know to look for there (if it even applies to Mabie Todds.)

Much thanks in advance.

Paige

February 12, 2011

I think you'll mostly find lever-fillers. Unfortunately (or, actually, fortunately) Mabie-Todd made several models (Jackdaw, Swift, Blackbird, Swan - I've probably missed some) all of different quality. I may not have them in the right order from low-end to top-end but it's something like that. In any case, values will be relative and of course depend on the condition of the pens you are offered. As far as price-ranges, I'm no help but I would think it's going to be a fairly wide range from bottom to top. Someone who actually knows what they are talking about will chime in with the real story. I'm just a place-holder.

February 12, 2011

Mabie-Todd was a prolific English penmaker. As Strang says, they made lots and lots of models. Swan, Blackbird, Jackdaw...alot of their model names were taken from birds.

As you can guess, the QUALITY of their pens depended on the model-name. SWAN was considered the best. Blackbird was considered the lowest grade. But that said, they made excellent pens.

Mabie Todds are almost universally either eyedroppers (if they're old enough) or lever-fillers, if they're not. They also manufactured "leverless" twist-fill pens. Although an interesting novelty, these are not very highly regarded, as they didn't fill up with as much ink as a comparable lever-filler (that's not say they're terrible pens, they're just not as efficient).

In my experience with Mabie Todd pens, most of them sell quite cheaply. Unless it's a very nice, old model, I wouldn't pay beyond about $30-$40 for a Mabie Todd in good, but not-working condition.

February 12, 2011

Mabie-Todd was a prolific English penmaker. As Strang says, they made lots and lots of models. Swan, Blackbird, Jackdaw...alot of their model names were taken from birds.

As you can guess, the QUALITY of their pens depended on the model-name. SWAN was considered the best. Blackbird was considered the lowest grade. But that said, they made excellent pens.

Mabie Todds are almost universally either eyedroppers (if they're old enough) or lever-fillers, if they're not. They also manufactured "leverless" twist-fill pens. Although an interesting novelty, these are not very highly regarded, as they didn't fill up with as much ink as a comparable lever-filler (that's not say they're terrible pens, they're just not as efficient).

In my experience with Mabie Todd pens, most of them sell quite cheaply. Unless it's a very nice, old model, I wouldn't pay beyond about $30-$40 for a Mabie Todd in good, but not-working condition.

Thanks for the input.

Does anybody know of a website I can go to to help me identify the different models? (Although, to be perfectly honest, I'll probably let myself be swayed by the "prettiness" of the pens over any other factors. )

Edited February 12, 2011 by Dental Diva

February 12, 2011

I think if someone told me they'd bring me a box of old fountain pens, I'd start drooling uncontrollably.

Heck, I'm drooling a little right now just thinking about it.

February 12, 2011

The top Mabie Todd brand ,Swan, are high quality pens, true first tier along with Conway Stewart, Onoto and Parker in England. As such any Swan in good condition is a collectable item ( there are some lesser models from near the end of the company though) , the early models worth a fair bit. Like Shangas said, avoid the twist fillers. Another point with Swans is to buy pens with a number 2 nib or higher ( I find the 1 a bit small, the 2 is a good size high quality nib) and cap bands. A lot have the model number stamped near the end of the barrel, especially the post war models ( like 3230, 6260, 3361)

Regards

Hugh

Edited February 12, 2011 by Hugh200au

February 12, 2011

I think if someone told me they'd bring me a box of old fountain pens, I'd start drooling uncontrollably.

Heck, I'm drooling a little right now just thinking about it.

I know, right?

But, I was in a couple of other antiques stores and searched through their boxes (each had one) of pens and there were quite a few duds. One store had a few Wearever(sp?) pens, but since I've never heard of them, and their appearance didn't appeal to me I left them behind.

Still, I'm excited to see what pens this lady has and what I can get them for.

Paige

February 12, 2011

Hi,

Going by the pens I've worked on, Blackbirds are second in the range. The nibs appear thinner than Swans, gold plating is less common, and the chrome plating doesn't wear as well. Jackdaws, I would say, are third. The plating is poor but this is sometimes outweighed by the wonderful celluloid patterns which some 1930s examples share with Visofils. Swans, of course, are top of the range and, as has been said, they are high quality pens with excellent nibs throughout the range from the hard-as-a-nail Eternal to semi-flex and full-flex across the size range. I find the Number 1 nibs more than acceptable. There's also a comparatively high incidence of obliques and stubs, especially among the Swan Minors.

I certainly don't find that the Leverless pen is less highly regarded. Certainly, there can be a problem, in that when they are improperly re-sacced they either work poorly or not at all. That's a problem with the repairer, though, not the pen. It is true that even when the sac is fitted properly, they hold a little less than a comparable lever or button filler, but the difference is not significant. Far from being a novelty, the Leverless was one of Swan's most successful lines for decades. There are hundreds if not thousands out there! It is clean and easy to fill, keeping both hands well away from the ink bottle, which was part of its appeal. The barrel line is clean, unbroken by a lever, and there is no detachable blind cap to lose. A high proportion of Leverlesses are prestigious pens with large nibs, gold end-cap Swan images and two or three cap rings and they sell accordingly. In my experience – and I've sold a lot of Swans – a Leverless sells at least as well as a comparable Swan lever-filler. Some, such as the classic L642 E/60, fetch very good prices indeed.

February 12, 2011

You absolutly have to get to the Library and check out or if it is a Reference book read there. Andreas Lambrou's book on Fountain Pens.

If the Wearever is full plastic, cap too, and striped get it. Pre war and up to early 50's the Deluxe and a couple of others...

I got some 8 that are good looking pens. Mostly nails...though some one else had good luck with better more flexible nibs.

some day I'll look for the better Wearever nibs.

Wearever made more pens than any and all the companies in the world then. Some second tier, but mostly third. They also made pens for other third tier companies.

Parker models made in England should be @ the same as in the US

The English nibs could be better??? I don't know.

Wyvern...lever filler get. I need to get a sac for mine. Very vivid green from the '30's.

Waverly...get it..even if the body is dead..the nib is so great that Richard Binder has learned to make it.

I 'need' one....of course I need to hit the lottery too.

De La Rue the top English pen.

In 1930 Sac pens were very suddenly "Old Fashioned and Out of Date." Parker had a good vacumatic system...Pelikan a better filling system.

Parker was big in England.

Swan needed twist or button fillers and quick. But a number of patents were in the way...

The twist fillers, two versions the regular '32 came out in '34 and and the Visofil '36 were invented because Lever fillers were out.

Yes they hold some what less than a good sac pen... but in today's world I'd not worry about it...I'm sure it holds more than a cartridge and or a converter.

It's not going to be your only pen on you...today.

Swan continued or came back to the Lever filler again @'36-8.

The twist tops still sold.

After the war, having a bombed out factory and being real low on the still after the war, still in place, war supply supply laws...Swan went back to the cheaper to make Lever. They made a very nice made,

Torpedo shaped one up to 1948. I was looking for one.

Swan ... Visofil then 25 shilings, The Cheapest of the Swan Lever fillers was 17.60 shillings. So Swan was well made and expensive still lever or twist fill.

(Status is everything...like a guy in the states who 'Has to Have' a BMW, in spite he's not got a curve in the whole state, much less a place where he can do it at any decent speed faster than a pick up.)

Blackbird Visofill was 7.60 Jakdaw was 5.60. I don't know what shillings to dollars was in the '30's.

Where the Swallow lays I don't know. But some guy got real lucky, and had one of the prettiest pens I ever saw...for a Swallow song.

I saw some wonderful herringbone Conway Stewards that went for a smaller fortune than I had.

I was not chasing Conway Steward because mostly they are regular nibs and mostly Swan is semi-flex, 'flexi' and Full Flex.

I was chasing a Swan Full Flex medium....then one fell into my hands in a German war pen...and the pen brand I 'collect' :embarrassed_smile: ie 7 of them, popped up and I used my Swan money for it.

There are some real grand colors of celluloid pens from the '30's. They will need some finger polishing with semi-chrome.

Color cost more than simple Black.

I who have 10 or so more black pens more than I need, will take a black Swan or even Blackbird with a Full Flex nib...or missing slightly flexible "flexi" nib size I have.

I'd spent some six weeks reading up on Swan, and making low bids because you might (93.2%) well have to send the pen in for repair...for as a Noobie it is not if it is not a lever action a pen to repair at home.

I now have the Pen Repair book, so I'm more interested in any Swan no matter if it is twist fill or Visofill. At the time I chased slowly after them, I was more into hoping for an easier to repair lever action.

There are some absolutely gorgeous ($) '30's Swan pens.

The Swan pens after 1955 went down hill fast the top of the line Swan The Calligraph, went from real good '50-52 to lesser quality after '55.

By '55 the ball point pen was In, the In Thing to Have.

The Great Dieing started.

I don't really know much about English pens...just what I read and I have only one.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

February 12, 2011

You'll also see a "Swallow" , it sits on roughly the same level as the "Blackbird". I've heard it mentioned the Blackbird was sold in England (and colonies) while the Swallow was the US equivalent. Out of interest the twist fillers where priced above lever models when new and as RR says do make excellent pens when restored , my preference for lever is a personal one only.

Regards

Hugh

February 12, 2011

Bo Bo Olsen that's a really interesting summary. I've been reading up on the Swan and Mabie Todd history for two weeks now, and you pretty well sum it up. I'm enjoying - nay thouroughly enjoying - my Swan ED, Safety Cap (Mabie Todd & Co, no Ltd so ca. 1911) with a #2 made in Toronto. No brown oxidation whatsoever, it looks like it's new.

Now everyone get back to topic...... nothing to see here...... (Sorry for the hijack.)

February 13, 2011

John Mabie began making pencils and pen holders in 1843 in New York. There were several different partnerships, Mabie Todd & Co. beginning in 1860. The partnership of Mabie, Todd & Bard, founded in 1873, began selling fountain pens in England in 1880. Eventually, branches were established world wide. The U.S. company changed its name back to Mabie, Todd & Co. in 1907 (with George Mabie holding 60% of the shares). Mabie, Todd & Co. Ltd. was not begun in England until the end of December of 1914. It was started for the express purpose of acquiring all of the non-U.S. assets of Mabie, Todd & Co., which it did the next month (these plans had originally been put in place in some fashion in 1910). George Mabie, the only remaining family member of the founding family involved in the business died in 1916. His father, founder John Mabie, and his younger brother John H. Mabie preceded him in death. George Sprague Bard had retired prior to the name reverting to Mabie, Todd & Co. and Edward Todd had left the company long ago to form Edward Todd & Co. I'm not certain when Henry Todd (Edward's brother) left the company. The U.S. company continued until 1941, the British company continued until the early 1960s. The most famous and sought after Mabie Todd pens are the old U.S. made overlays. Their early pencils are also highly valued. Until the late 1920s, the overlays sold in England were made by the U.S. company. After the overlays, the Eternal was the top of the line and there is little difference between those made in the U.S. and those made in the U.K. In the U.S., the Swallow followed, in the U.K. it was the Blackbird. There were numerous attractive plastic pens made through the 1930's.

Here is a rare pierced sterling over mottled hard rubber overlay example:

http://www.mabie-todd.com/test/pics/eds/s14.jpg

Here is an early 14k combination pencil & pen holder. The nib slides out, the pencil twists to retract and propel:

http://www.mabie-todd.com/test/pics/pencil/1409.jpg

Edited February 13, 2011 by dlmoak