Problems With Pelikan Nibs

[Antolin]

I have recently bought 3 Pels from 3 different dealers: a Souveran M605 with an M nib, a Souveran M1000 with a B nib and a Classic P381 with a B nib. In each case, it was difficult to start writing with them, even after some washing. Lines got interrupted at the beginning of each stroke. Nibs had a greasy-like looking. At last, after more washing I succeeded to make them write.

 

Anyway, with the M1000 and the P381 they keep on stopping every now and then. In mainly happens at the beginning of a letter or in vertical strokes. This is odd, mainly because the B nib of the M1000 has an abundant ink flow, once it has begun writing.

 

I don't know whether the problem is the feeder, the nib (e.g. little tines gap), an obstruction somewhere or a very subtle misalignment between nib and feeder. But, it is strange that it happens to the 3 of them. In other forum, some other people reports the same problem.

 

Is Pelikan neglecting about its quality controls? Has it ever happened to you something like that?

What do you think it may be the reason? May some nib expert could advice me what to do?

 

I post some photographs to show it.

Thanks

 

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/593/img0928web.jpg

 

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4503/img0934web.jpg

 

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1097/img0923web.jpg

[cocoliso22]

Antolin Hello, I am pleased to find this forum as well, although we have to leave our mother tongue.

I have 5 Pelikan bought in the past year and a half, a M1000 with a B nib (like you), and four M 800 with nib M, B, BB, and 3B, and none of them has made me the problem plants.

The customer service person Pelikan is very good, could you comment on the case, to see how they can help,

I guess we'll see (or rather, we will read) more often in the other forum that we also share. Good luck with the solution to your problem, greetings.

[Mickey]

From the photos, it looks like you have case of "baby's bottom," where the rounding of the two halves of the nib keep the slit too far from the paper to initiate capillary action. The dealers should take care of the problem. You might also try gripping the pen closer to the front of the section, so that the nib is closer to vertical. My modern Pelikans seem to perform best when held a tiny bit more upright than my other pens.

[Guest Pjay]

Exactly the same problem with my M800 Italic, but the new nib (replaced under warranty), was perfect...

QC questions are only natural under these circumstances :hmm1:

[fabrimedeiros]

My three M1000: M, BB and 3B are absolutely quick starters. They work flawless, no doubt my best pens. Now I want a M1000 EF

 

 

I think your nibs will work perfect after a while, but, even though, it's better if you could send them to dealers.

[FPFan]

I have found that if Pelikan nibs sit dry for a length of time that they are difficult to start back up in use. I typically soak my Pelikans in plain water for a couple of hours when I want to put them back in service again. This has helped greatly with the ink flow not being a problem, espcially if you are using a dry ink.

 

Hope this helps.

[Antolin]

Thank you for your comments. Cocoliso it's nice to found you also here.

 

Today I visit a Pelikan pen dealer here at Madrid and he told me that broad nibs have higher ink requirements that feeders sometimes can't supply. He has recommended me to send it back to Pelikan to fit it. I don´t think this is the problem but need of some kind of feeder-nib adjusting. Otherwise it would mean a serious design failure that Pelikan should have discovered and solved long time ago.

 

He also said that broader nibs need a slower writing than finer ones, to avoid ink shortage. I thought it was opposite: the broader the nib, the bleeder the ink, and the faster you could write, but it doesn't seem so.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Antolin

[Antolin]

I have found that if Pelikan nibs sit dry for a length of time that they are difficult to start back up in use. I typically soak my Pelikans in plain water for a couple of hours when I want to put them back in service again. This has helped greatly with the ink flow not being a problem, espcially if you are using a dry ink.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Thank you FPFan, but the pens are brand new ones, never used, so it couldn't be a case of dry ink sediments. Anyway I'll keep in mind your advice.

[bmundt]

I've been using Pelikans since '88. I would suggest trying different inks. Once I switched to Waterman, my pens have started up first thing in the morning! Can't say the same of when I used Peilkan inks. Strange, that.

[Mickey]

Thank you for your comments. Cocoliso it's nice to found you also here.

 

Today I visit a Pelikan pen dealer here at Madrid and he told me that broad nibs have higher ink requirements that feeders sometimes can't supply. He has recommended me to send it back to Pelikan to fit it. I don´t think this is the problem but need of some kind of feeder-nib adjusting. Otherwise it would mean a serious design failure that Pelikan should have discovered and solved long time ago.

 

He also said that broader nibs need a slower writing than finer ones, to avoid ink shortage. I thought it was opposite: the broader the nib, the bleeder the ink, and the faster you could write, but it doesn't seem so.

 

The dealer is blowing smoke. (This is polite for being less than honest or informed.) The photos of the nib and of your writing strongly suggest the nib was not finished properly: "las nalgas del bebe'." In english, a baby's bottom. The down stroke on the letter "P" clearly shows that ink from the slit is not reaching the paper at the beginning of the stroke. This is not correct.

 

Es este claro?

[Antolin]

Thank you for your comments. Cocoliso it's nice to found you also here.

 

Today I visit a Pelikan pen dealer here at Madrid and he told me that broad nibs have higher ink requirements that feeders sometimes can't supply. He has recommended me to send it back to Pelikan to fit it. I don´t think this is the problem but need of some kind of feeder-nib adjusting. Otherwise it would mean a serious design failure that Pelikan should have discovered and solved long time ago.

 

He also said that broader nibs need a slower writing than finer ones, to avoid ink shortage. I thought it was opposite: the broader the nib, the bleeder the ink, and the faster you could write, but it doesn't seem so.

 

The dealer is blowing smoke. (This is polite for being less than honest or informed.) The photos of the nib and of your writing strongly suggest the nib was not finished properly: "las nalgas del bebe'." In english, a baby's bottom. The down stroke on the letter "P" clearly shows that ink from the slit is not reaching the paper at the beginning of the stroke. This is not correct.

 

Es este claro?

 

I agree with you. It sounds strange the explanation he gave me. Pelikan sells a lot of B, BB, BBB nibs to Know how it works. I think the better option is to send it back to Pelikan to fit it.

 

Do you know if they would accept a Classic P381 also being a NOS item? They haven't answered yet.

 

Thanks

[Bo Bo Olson]

My first thought was baby bottom.

[fabrimedeiros]

Thank you for your comments. Cocoliso it's nice to found you also here.

 

Today I visit a Pelikan pen dealer here at Madrid and he told me that broad nibs have higher ink requirements that feeders sometimes can't supply. He has recommended me to send it back to Pelikan to fit it. I don´t think this is the problem but need of some kind of feeder-nib adjusting. Otherwise it would mean a serious design failure that Pelikan should have discovered and solved long time ago.

 

He also said that broader nibs need a slower writing than finer ones, to avoid ink shortage. I thought it was opposite: the broader the nib, the bleeder the ink, and the faster you could write, but it doesn't seem so.

 

 

You're RIGHT!! Your dealer told you b... Most of my Pelikan are B, BB, 3B and all of them are absolutely WET!! Think: If you hold a Pelikan and it's dry, you have 2 options: 1) That Peli has a flow problem (nib, feed etc) OR 2) That's not a Pelikan, maybe fake.

 

With my M1000 BB and 3B I can write so fast as I can and they never skip (= ink shortage).

[RMN]

Well, you always have to check for baby-bottom.... but...

 

1 can happen

2 is coincidence

3 is a pattern

 

3 baby bottoms on 3 different pens, one of which NOS??? Not very likely.

 

But I do agree with your seller: a broad nib makes a lot of contact and therefor needs a lot of ink. A flow that would make your F point drowning could leave your BB point wanting... And it is much more likely that the Nib-feed combination is not perfect. Combined with a bad ink-paper combination (as BoBo says: writing is 1/3 nib, 1/3 ink, 1/3 paper) and perhaps some abundant skin-oils you may get your skipping.

 

D.ick

[Mickey]

Well, you always have to check for baby-bottom.... but...

 

1 can happen

2 is coincidence

3 is a pattern

 

3 baby bottoms on 3 different pens, one of which NOS??? Not very likely.

 

But I do agree with your seller: a broad nib makes a lot of contact and therefor needs a lot of ink. A flow that would make your F point drowning could leave your BB point wanting... And it is much more likely that the Nib-feed combination is not perfect. Combined with a bad ink-paper combination (as BoBo says: writing is 1/3 nib, 1/3 ink, 1/3 paper) and perhaps some abundant skin-oils you may get your skipping.

 

D.ick

 

The least likely scenario is some combination of ink and paper. (Did you look carefully at the writing sample?) A truly wet ink might hide the defect, but it doesn't remove it. A user shouldn't have to select their ink mostly on the basis of something which wasn't done correctly at the factory. Yes, the OP almost surely finger writes, which can bring the rear portion of the nib more into play when beginning a letter with an ascender, but if the nib is finished correctly, i.e., no baby bottom, the symptoms would be different and wouldn't include beginning-of-stroke rail roads.

 

As for the dealer's comment, it's still a bunch of male bovine waste products. While a broad nib does require a bit more ink, any modern feed which can't supply a factory nib under normal operation is de facto defective. We're not talking about a specialty nib, like a full flex artist's nib, but a rigid, broad, writer's nib. The feed should be able to keep up. In any event, the writing sample doesn't suggest a feed problem, but some combination of nib and rake angle problem.

[Antolin]

It seems strange both being a coincidence or a design failure. So I've contacted Pelikan and they've asked me to send them the pens to investigate what happened. It may take a long time but I will tell you when they come back.

Thank you again for your comments

Edited February 3, 2011 by Antolin

[Mickey]

I doubt its a design flaw. More than likely it is imperfect nib finishing.

 

I've noticed on several recently produced pens that the contour of the tip surface closer to the feed is not well done. It isn't that it's rough. but that the shape is not consistent, frequently exhibiting some degree of baby's bottom. This isn't a problem when one holds the pen at a typical rake angle (c. 45 degrees), but if you hold the pen flatter than that, the baby's bottom becomes a problem. In other words, the sweet spot is not very large front to back. When you reach forward to begin an ascender (as on an "f"), without moving your entire hand, the baby's bottom lands on the page with predictably results.

 

My favorite Pelikan performs best when held no flatter than 45 degrees. I have a Sheaffer which is absolute heaven at precisely 45 degrees and a pig at any other rake angle. (This one's my fault, and I may get around to re-massaging the nib a bit, later today.) I don't mind slightly fussy nibs if the results are good, but my tolerance has limits.

[kareth]

could you please throw some light on your writing experiences with B & 3B?

 

are they ink guzzlers?

 

do they need frequent ink fill?

 

it would be extremely useful/supportive, if you could provide information on B & 3B specifically

 

thanks

 

My three M1000: M, BB and 3B are absolutely quick starters. They work flawless, no doubt my best pens. Now I want a M1000 EF

 

 

[Guest Subvet642]

I've been having the same issue with an M605. I've tried all the usual remedies, but I'm wondering if it's a case of particularly stubborn release agent on the feed. If it is, would rinsing the nib/feed unit in rubbing alcohol do any harm?

[Inka]

This picture, although a bit blurry at the nib tips, shows 2 things going wrong if I'm seeing through the blur properly...

 

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4503/img0934web.jpg

 

1. There are possible signs of the inner edges rolling over, i.e. slot edges overly polished or as it's often called a babies-bottom.
2. The tips appear to be actually touching, pressed against each other, whereas there should be just the slightest bit of light seen between them for proper flow [given there's a white background in this shot I'd expect to see some clearance, unless again it's the blur or possibly dark ink filling the gap if there actually is a gap].

Each issue alone can cause false or slow starts [even skipping when pressure on the tips is relieved] until enough pressure is applied to the tip to either press into paper for wicking to occur or to spreading the tips far enough away from each other allowing ink to reach the tip via surface tension & capillary action & gravity combined.

I've seen this all too often, on several brand-new Pelikan nibs of all kinds

This is not operator error, it's an improperly finished nib pure and simple, if it's what I think I'm seeing.

It's a shame too, especially when paying so much for a pen, or seeing that the Pelikan Website clearly states the following [go to Pelikan/ Fine Writing- Products/ Passion/ The Special Pelikan Quality, or just click here].

Copied & pasted directly from the Pelikan Website, a portion of their advertising..

The nib

...As a last step, every nib is tested by hand...

Hmmm, someone needs to check those testing hands, or eyes, either that or they're very heavy-handed testers.

As much as I love Pelikans this has been going on for way too long now, I've had to learn nib-tuning in order to enjoy mine.

Their nibs can and have been hit-or-miss, you either get a nice nib or you get one that acts up, that's been my experience so far and I keep reading about it regularly.