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Dilution - Noodler's Baystate Blue


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16 replies to this topic

#1 Sandy1

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 18:59

WELCOME

These samples document my results from diluting Noodler's Baystate Blue with water. I have chosen to present them the basic terms of the Ink Review performance profile, without addressing use, aesthetics and so on, you know - the interesting stuff. So - no Grey Scale, or dissertations on bottle cap liners!


WRITTEN LINES

These replace the ubiquitous but flaky swatches, which cannot reliably depict ink density, (light - dark), etc., etc., etc.

To juxtapose the four samples, two sets are shown.


Paper: HPJ1124

Figure 1.
Posted Image
Row 1. 100% (stock)
Row 2. 80%
Row 3. 66%
Row 4. 40%

Figure 2.
Posted Image

Row 1. 66%
Row 2. 100%
Row 3. 40%
Row 4. 80%

WRITTEN SAMPLES

Figure 3.
HPJ1124
Posted Image

Figure 4.
Rhodia
Posted Image


OTHER STUFF

I decided to group the Smear/Dry Time tests with the Wet Tests for each dilution, rather than sorting by test type.

Increment for S/DT mark-making is five seconds.


Figure 5.
Posted Image

Left Side: HPJ1124
Right Side: Rhodia



OBSERVATIONS

Physical Performance & Characteristics

Flow Rate:
  • OK for all dilutions.
Nib Dry-out:
  • OK for all dilutions.
  • Diminishes as dilution increases.
Start-up:
  • OK for all dilutions.
Lubrication:
  • OK for all dilutions.
  • Diminishes as dilution increases.
  • The Written Samples for 100, 80 & 66% were OK.
  • The 40% Sample was barely tolerable, so use of textured papers and/or narrow nibs may be unpleasant.
Bleed Through:
  • Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!
Show Through:
  • Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!
Feathering / Woolly Line:
  • Yes.
  • Deceases as dilution increases.
  • 66% is sort of OK.
  • 40% has cleared-up this obvious defect.
Smear/Dry Time:
  • The hard-surfaced Rhodia showed shorter S/D times than the HPJ1124. (?!?)
  • The S/D time increased as dilution increased - which is contrary to widely-held opinion / common wisdom / rule of I'm-all-thumbs.
Water Resistance:
  • -4- or greater on the S4 Scale:
    • "All legible, can be easily read and/or have light staining from re-deposit of soluble ink.
    • Use as-is for work papers & internal use.
    • Adjustments to a scanner may drop-out the stain."
  • Much lower on the Rhodia than the HPJ1124.
  • Increases slightly as dilution increases.
Clean Up:
  • Reasonable.
  • Temporary staining of work surfaces and vessels is often reported.
  • Adequate HazMat precautions, including personal protection kit, and use of restoration / recovery / cleaning products should avoid permanent staining.
  • I am disinclined to use this ink in (vintage, BHR) pens which may include components made from materials which may not withstand normal-to-aggressive domestic cleaning products.

Personal Observations:
  • Noodler's Baystate Blue is a tour de force in bringing vibrant dyestuff to FP ink. I previously described the visual impact as being the only Blue that is a screaming red-orange at its core; and a red-orange in mufti.
  • I feel that dilution can be used to maintain The Look of NBBl on overly absorbent papers and/or from writers which are too wet and may 'submerge' the ink.
  • As I am highly aware of inks' line quality, I have very often shunned this ink as being a terrible performer.
  • Dilution is a means to diminish feathering without destroying The Look.

As always, YYMV considerably, not only from materials, etc. that the practitioner chooses, but also inconsistencies in the stuff in the bottle.

Please take note: Ink does not require labeling to indicate (changes in) formulation, ingredients, batches, date of production, etc. The accuracy of this and other Reviews, samples, etc. is dependent upon consistency and reliability of associated products and methods.

[oOo]_[OoO]_[oOo]

MATERIEL

Pen:

Rosetta Magellan + g-p steel Schmidt B nib.
(This supersedes the previously favoured Pelikan M200 with a g-p BB nib from richardpens. While I like that rig, I think it is not as well suited to this sort of thing.)


Papers:

HPJ1124 - A 24lb. Laser Copy paper.
Rhodia - A fairly common upper tier paper that is FP friendly.

- 30 -


Edited by Sandy1, 09 January 2011 - 21:50.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


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#2 Lloyd

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 19:25

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
Oscar Wilde

#3 reprieve

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 20:52

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.


But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.

#4 fjf

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 21:50

How much do you dilute?. Is the 2/3 + 1/3 water a good recipe in you experience too?.

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.


But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.


Edited by fjf, 09 January 2011 - 21:50.


#5 Sandy1

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 21:55

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.


But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.


Hi,

Ah, how much is 'slightly'?

From what I could see, the 66% solution seemed a good place to start; but would you suggest 80 - 90%?

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#6 Sandy1

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 22:21

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

Hi,

I don't prefer very narrow nibs for most of my writing. (Reminds me too much of posting entries in my cheque-book.) And I don't like to be hemmed-in by inks' performance profile. OK - changing papers and wetness of writers is a norm for me. I would find working with a predicated nib-width because of an ink's performance profile to be just goofy.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#7 reprieve

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:56

How much do you dilute?. Is the 2/3 + 1/3 water a good recipe in you experience too?.


Hi,

Ah, how much is 'slightly'?

From what I could see, the 66% solution seemed a good place to start; but would you suggest 80 - 90%?

Bye,
S1


I don't measure precisely. Posted Image Eyeballing it, I would say about 80% ink to 20% water. That's what works for me.

Edited by reprieve, 10 January 2011 - 12:56.


#8 wikionion

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:23

WELCOME
 

These samples document my results from diluting Noodler's Baystate Blue with water. I have chosen to present them the basic terms of the Ink Review performance profile, without addressing use, aesthetics and so on, you know - the interesting stuff. So - no Grey Scale, or dissertations on bottle cap liners!


WRITTEN LINES

These replace the ubiquitous but flaky swatches, which cannot reliably depict ink density, (light - dark), etc., etc., etc.

To juxtapose the four samples, two sets are shown.


Paper: HPJ1124

Figure 1.
fc455661.jpg
Row 1. 100% (stock)
Row 2. 80%
Row 3. 66%
Row 4. 40%

Figure 2.
043e7b3a.jpg

Row 1. 66%
Row 2. 100%
Row 3. 40%
Row 4. 80%

WRITTEN SAMPLES

Figure 3.
HPJ1124
f846fde5.jpg

Figure 4.
Rhodia
c377a9fd.jpg


OTHER STUFF


I decided to group the Smear/Dry Time tests with the Wet Tests for each dilution, rather than sorting by test type.

Increment for S/DT mark-making is five seconds.


Figure 5.
4a36fc3d.jpg


Left Side: HPJ1124
Right Side: Rhodia



OBSERVATIONS

Physical Performance & Characteristics

Flow Rate:

  • OK for all dilutions.
Nib Dry-out:
  • OK for all dilutions.
  • Diminishes as dilution increases.
Start-up:
  • OK for all dilutions.
Lubrication:
  • OK for all dilutions.
  • Diminishes as dilution increases.
  • The Written Samples for 100, 80 & 66% were OK.
  • The 40% Sample was barely tolerable, so use of textured papers and/or narrow nibs may be unpleasant.
Bleed Through:
  • Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!
Show Through:
  • Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!
Feathering / Woolly Line:
  • Yes.
  • Deceases as dilution increases.
  • 66% is sort of OK.
  • 40% has cleared-up this obvious defect.
Smear/Dry Time:
  • The hard-surfaced Rhodia showed shorter S/D times than the HPJ1124. (?!?)
  • The S/D time increased as dilution increased - which is contrary to widely-held opinion / common wisdom / rule of I'm-all-thumbs.
Water Resistance:
  • -4- or greater on the S4 Scale:
    • "All legible, can be easily read and/or have light staining from re-deposit of soluble ink.
    • Use as-is for work papers & internal use.
    • Adjustments to a scanner may drop-out the stain."
  • Much lower on the Rhodia than the HPJ1124.
  • Increases slightly as dilution increases.
Clean Up:
  • Reasonable.
  • Temporary staining of work surfaces and vessels is often reported.
  • Adequate HazMat precautions, including personal protection kit, and use of restoration / recovery / cleaning products should avoid permanent staining.
  • I am disinclined to use this ink in (vintage, BHR) pens which may include components made from materials which may not withstand normal-to-aggressive domestic cleaning products.

Personal Observations:
  • Noodler's Baystate Blue is a tour de force in bringing vibrant dyestuff to FP ink. I previously described the visual impact as being the only Blue that is a screaming red-orange at its core; and a red-orange in mufti.
  • I feel that dilution can be used to maintain The Look of NBBl on overly absorbent papers and/or from writers which are too wet and may 'submerge' the ink.
  • As I am highly aware of inks' line quality, I have very often shunned this ink as being a terrible performer.
  • Dilution is a means to diminish feathering without destroying The Look.

As always, YYMV considerably, not only from materials, etc. that the practitioner chooses, but also inconsistencies in the stuff in the bottle.

Please take note: Ink does not require labeling to indicate (changes in) formulation, ingredients, batches, date of production, etc. The accuracy of this and other Reviews, samples, etc. is dependent upon consistency and reliability of associated products and methods.

[oOo]_[OoO]_[oOo]

MATERIEL

Pen:

Rosetta Magellan + g-p steel Schmidt B nib.
(This supersedes the previously favoured Pelikan M200 with a g-p BB nib from richardpens. While I like that rig, I think it is not as well suited to this sort of thing.)


Papers:

HPJ1124 - A 24lb. Laser Copy paper.
Rhodia - A fairly common upper tier paper that is FP friendly.

- 30 -

 

Can you dilute it a lot (like down to 10%) and tell us how it goes?



#9 tmenyc

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:01

20prcnt dilution has always been right for me with Esterbrook 2556 or 2668 nibs. It does not dilute tts staining ability,happy to say. Loved the OP's use of the Hazmat term...
Tim

#10 Shanazon

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 15:31

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I've found that I can use it at 100% without a problem if i retard the feed from the tines a bit. The end of my feed ends up being about 2-2.5mm back from where I'd have it for other inks and I find that this alleviates the bleed and feathering that is present with the feed in the default position.

#11 torstar

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 15:33

Great work!!

 

I tried this for awhile and then not.

 

BSB also had to have changed the ink over the years, more user friendly, right?



#12 Chmara

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:28

Thank you -- now if I could only trust my monitors to give me the true colors of lines, swatches, swabs or any other  ink sample.



#13 Sandy1

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:34

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I've found that I can use it at 100% without a problem if i retard the feed from the tines a bit. The end of my feed ends up being about 2-2.5mm back from where I'd have it for other inks and I find that this alleviates the bleed and feathering that is present with the feed in the default position.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks!

 

My approach is to tune the ink to the pen.

 

My adventures with tuning inexpensive nibs to a Noodler's Ahab made it clear that I an a mere tine teaser, and that setting-up nib-to-feed is a work in progress. (As are my fluffy dumplings.)

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 03 February 2018 - 06:34.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#14 Sandy1

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:32

Great work!!

 

I tried this for awhile and then not.

 

BSB also had to have changed the ink over the years, more user friendly, right?

 

Hi,

 

As ever, Ink Co.s modify their products for one reason or another; and those changes are not always disclosed. It is not always the 'small batch artisanal' inks, but even the behemoth Lamy switched their Blue-Black from iron-gall to aniline dye imposter without notice - the product ID was the same. (Bah!)

 

To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time. (I've posted some 138 ink reviews, and wonder how many are still relevant due to changes in the ink itself.)

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#15 Sandy1

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:44

Thank you -- now if I could only trust my monitors to give me the true colors of lines, swatches, swabs or any other  ink sample.

 

Hi,

 

Here's a good discussion : http://www.fountainp...sted/?p=3039055

 

Believe me, with all the various viewing devices (phones, tablets, laptops, desktops) it  makes it very tricky.

 

I found that depicting the Chrome (sizzle) of NBsBl is impossible. (See discussions of 'International Klein Blue'.

 

I work in a very simple way : producing the jpg image in a consistent manner. Hence the results are as close as I can get; they are relative, not absolute.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 03 February 2018 - 07:50.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#16 torstar

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 14:21

 

Hi,

 

As ever, Ink Co.s modify their products for one reason or another; and those changes are not always disclosed. It is not always the 'small batch artisanal' inks, but even the behemoth Lamy switched their Blue-Black from iron-gall to aniline dye imposter without notice - the product ID was the same. (Bah!)

 

To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time. (I've posted some 138 ink reviews, and wonder how many are still relevant due to changes in the ink itself.)

 

Bye,

S1

 

Thanks Sandy,

 

With BSB bottles bought years apart it was easy to discern a change for the better in the ink.



#17 scunepo

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 16:38

"To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time."

 

Makes good sense, Sandy1.


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