Mabie Todd Leverless/twist Filler

[easirois]

Hi,

 

I have a Mabie Todd leverless/twist filler. It's very similar to Mabie Todd 1060. One exception is that mine has a 6 sized nib and the middle ring in the cap is slightly bigger. I'm trying to figure out a couple things related to what I should expect from this pen. I know the twist filler is not the most efficient filling mechanism.

 

1. How many pages should I really expect to be able to write with the pen? I can write about three pages in a medium sized (8X6) before I need to refill.

2. If it's not performing to the best of its capabilities, who can actually fix it properly? It not a very common pen (at least the leverless version).

 

Kind regards,

Eric

[Hugh200au]

No model number on the end of the barrel? With the larger middle ring it sounds like a 4660 ( a 4240 , is it this shape?) but the number should be on the barrel so may be something else. I would have thought 3 pages a bit light considering these have a fairly decent sized sac so I'd think it needs a new one. Any of the well known repairers should be able to do it easily.

 

Regards

Hugh

[easirois]

It has a different end than the ones you referenced, Hugh. It has no model number stamped on it. Here are a couple of pics.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

Edited December 7, 2010 by easirois

[Bo Bo Olson]

You have to send it off to be refurbished, in the guts of the Swan are not for home repair.

 

How is the nib. I was interested in buying a late '30's- right after the war Swan...until some German pen jumped the Que.

 

In that the Swan non lever action requires professional repair I'd become more interested in the lever actions. I was after the famous great Swan flexible nib.

[Rose Nibs]

I have a Mabie Todd Swan with the big #6 nib and it is a joy to write with. Spring but not flex. Lovely pen but the sac twisting fill mechanism can only be described as primitive and ineffective. I re-sacced it when I bought it expecting many pages per fill. I do get them, but I achieve that by taking the barrel off carefully and squeezing the sac by hand. I can never get more than a third fill by the proper method. I don't think there's anything wrong with the pen. I also feel uncomfortable twisting the sac. My pen has rounded ends on cap and barrel, I think it is late forties. A nib to dream about. When did they stop making nibs like that, and why?

[easirois]

Unfortunately, this bad boy has no flex. It suits my writing style. I have a Conway Stewart 58 that does have a wee bit of flex. I'm having fun with it.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

[Silas]

I have a mottled blue Swan with flex nib and twist filler. It's a very wet writer...which I like, but the twist fill is not efficient!

 

I can live with having to fill it every 2-3 pages for the flex nib!

 

Doesn't bother me that much, but it would if I carried it out and about.

[Bo Bo Olson]

As I said, that pen is not for home repair...not if you want it to hold enough ink.

It will hold more ink, or it could never have been sold against the compilation of the English Parker and Conway Stewart, Esterbrook and other English brands.

[Rose Nibs]

Bo Bo, maybe I am missing something. This is the only twist filler I've got so maybe there's more to it than replacing the sac. The lever in the barrel moves smoothly and it does twist the sac okay but it just doesn't draw in a fill of ink. I can't see anything wrong with it but what you say makes sense. It must have done better than this once. What can happen to such a simple mechanism that requires expert attention? Maybe the sac size is critical to the effectiveness of the thing.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't have a Swan. I was looking to buy one, and read up on it. There should be some sort of long breathing tube in the sac.

 

Which in your case could be broken off. Whoops... that is not the Leverless but the Visofil... There are some 5 or so types of filling systems used on Swan pens.

 

The Leverless patent is from 1932 and the pan came out in '34. It is less effective than the lever filler but was on sale until the bomb blew up the factory. On sale for 11 years.

They came in three sizes to fit a small size 2 nib, medium 4 and large 6 nib.

The Visofil was patented in 1934 and with the long breathing tube could be filled with more ink.

 

 

The more I read...in that I wanted the nib more than a 'filling system' I did not have; the more I decided to go for a lever filler from 1930 or those from right after the War.

There were a couple lever fillers that came out again just before the War.

 

Peter Twydle in England should be able to fix it. He has the parts; and is well known for good pen repair.

 

Let me look in my Pen Repair book by Marshal and Oldfield which is dedicated to Peter's father Arthur.

Or Marshal or Oldfield repair them too.

 

 

""""Fitting the larger sac than what would be used in normal lever pen, one uses a pusher to makes sure the end of the sac reaches the end of the barrel.

The pusher is used through the section so the nib and feed can not be fitted until the sac is in place.

A large sac, that is also a necked sac, or it will not fit tightly onto the section nipple.

The pusher is a piece of 3mm dowel with an knob on the end to prevent it (and sac) from being pushed in too far. The sac should be well covered in Talc."""

 

You would have to ask Marshal or Oldfield what size sac you need. It depends on your nib size, 2, 4 or 6...IE. the size of the pen. That was not in the book.

 

Is your pressure bar ok...if it is snapped off or missing, you need a special tool. (yours is ok)

If it is snapped off or missing, I'd send it in...Bars are usually welded to the head of a left hand threaded bolt that screws into the knob.

Rarely; a left threaded brass slot headed screw holds the assembly in place and a long handled fine screwdriver will do that.

 

I highly recommend Pen Repair, Second Edition, by Jim Marshal and Laurence Oldfield.

Just by looking for help on this problem and only glancing at the other Swan models I learned a lot....

 

Well in that I am never going to have a collection of Swan pens, wanting only a couple of the Full Flexible nibs, which I can be sure of getting with a couple of the better pen repair guys who sell on English Ebay. I will buy refurbished pens and pay a 'fair' price for them, instead of "Bo Bo Home Alone" with out parts.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[easirois]

Hi,

 

I sent off a note to Dr. Oldfield regarding the proper sac size for this pen.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

Edited December 9, 2010 by easirois

[easirois]

Hi,

 

I opened up the pen since it's only a press fit. Yes, the sac is too small. I can slide the nib unit and sac in and out without any issues. I have some free time on Sunday, if I can find where I put some of 1/8" stainless steel plate - maybe some plexy glass would be better. I'm building myself a knock-out block.

 

The inside diameter is about .40" (10mm) and the length of the barrel is just shy of 2 7/8" (72mm) long. Using the Parker equation (from pensacs.com) to determine sac size .40 x 56 = 22.4. So it would look like a 22 1/2 x 2 3/4 would be the one to get.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

[FarmBoy]

I call the Swan Leverless filler the "mangle filler". There is nothing special to replacing the sac on this pen. Put in the largest sac you can that holds on the nipple. The sac should be snug against the filler bar to work properly.

 

For those that have not seen one, the knob on the end rotates an L shaped bar that is attached to the knob but attached off-axis. When the knob is turned it catches the sac and folds it up in a twisting manner forcing out the contents. When released the sac is to expand and suck in the ink. Put in a good heavy sack and make sure there are no sharp edges on the bar if you opt to take it out.

 

If your sac is pliable then you have plugged feed. I'd try soaking before removing the feed and nib from section. While you access to the back of the section force some water through feed to clean it out if you don't have a sonicator.

 

Todd

[Rose Nibs]

Okay, if it helps at all - my leverless #6 nib Swan is in a 2060. I tried a necked size 21 sac in it first but the neck was too tight, so I settled for a straight size 20. It can be slid into the barrel without a dowel but it is fairly snug. Maybe not quite snug enough. Even after a couple of months and half a dozen fills the sac is beginning to look permanently twisted which I don't like. The rubber prefers levers.

[soapytwist]

The only thing I have found to do to reduce the 'scrunching' effect is to liberally talcum and keep the pen filled without drying it out. The sacs still become unusable quicker than lever fillers though. On the bright side, it did mean I used to get them cheaper because found in the field, they are hardly ever working.

[easirois]

Hi,

 

I received a response from Dr. Oldfield. Passing along the info, as it may help others with this crazy filling system.

 

If you only have conventional sac(s) available, you need a No 22. It fills, but not as well as it should - this is about the largest sac you can use if you want to restore it as you would a normal sac pen. To get the best performance, you need a No24 necked sac and you will need a sac pusher to get it into the pen (as described in the book).

 

Kind regards,

Eric

[Bo Bo Olson]

Your real choice is simple sen it off to be properly sac'ed, or buy the book and do it your self.

 

I have Da Book and this one Pen Repair, the second edition, this one is better; in that Da Book is basically a US pen repair book.

 

Lots of nice color pictures and so on.

[easirois]

I'm hoping Santa will drop off the "Pen Repair" book for Xmas.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Good book, and a fine start to repairing your own pens.

I hope you have a lot of fun.

 

I'm held up right now, in need of 10-12 corks.

[Gedion]

Tryphon Enterprises sells sacs made of silicone that may have a longer life and are more durable. I own a number of twist fillers made by Mabie & Todd similar to yours.

 

The filling mechanism is simple and seems relatively difficult to break. For me, it comes down to "Love the nibs, accept the filler."

 

From their web site:We have high quality Silicone (plastic) ink sacs in the following sizes: #14, #16, #18, #20. These sacs are very long lasting and they can be used in the restoration of vintage celluloid pens since they do not promote celluloid discoloration. We also stock Silicone Aerometric sacs for Parker 51s, 21s and similar pens.