Are you a member of PCA?

[david i]

Odd, my friend Jim is well aware of the issue, so not sure why he wants to find out what it is ;-)

 

Sorry fershure to see Jim leave his role as Editor. He did a fine job. Now we just need to find an organization with sound business ethics to which he can apply efforts next time!

 

best

 

daivd

[david i]

oops. almost missed Rebecca's post.

 

Well, no bitterness from me. Mostly entertainment and observation. But, the thread *is* about whether one is a member or not. My obligation is to be true in my position and to provide advice where i can.

 

PCA has loooong way to go. That does not exclude possibility it can get there.

 

d

[PenHero]

Odd, my friend Jim is well aware of the issue, so not sure why he wants to find out what it is ;-)

 

Sorry fershure to see Jim leave his role as Editor. He did a fine job. Now we just need to find an organization with sound business ethics to which he can apply efforts next time!

 

best

 

daivd

David,

 

Nope, sorry. As far as I know there is no ethics problem at the PCA. None.

 

I have indeed heard about a dispute that people have told me is the backstory to your "ethics" issue. The problem sounds to me like nothing more than a misunderstanding that should have died years ago. I also understand that you are personally involved in it, but I have to say all of this is hearsay, so you would obviously be able to enlighten all of us, not me.

 

It's not my job to explain what your beef is with the PCA on ethics that you keep bringing up - it's *your* job. So explain it.

 

Why not tell everyone the whole story so they can decide for themselves? All I hear is a voice crying, "Unethical PCA!"

 

Your repeated posts for months all over the internet on PCA ethics appear to me to be intended to harm the reputation of the PCA. You can put any smiley face on it you want, but that's the way it is. Saying an organization is unethical is pretty serious, especially since that organization is now a non-profit that can accept tax-deductible contributions. Are you intending to scare away people and businesses that may want to donate to the PCA?

 

So where is your evidence? Since you won't put up any and never have, I'm saying there isn't any. There's no fire, only smoke.

 

I am also going to state again, I have never seen anything unethical in my term as the editor of the PENNANT. Nothing at all.

 

Thanks for the compliment, BTW.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[david i]

hey, i freely give you the right to believe the PCA has been intact, ethically.

 

right generous of me, i figger.

 

But, happily, during the last few years, it has been my pleasure and obligation to advise hundreds or more people of some of the realities of the scene.

 

I also freely give you the right to object to this, not that my extension of that right to nice folks conflicts at all with my overriding mission.

 

 

 

best

 

david

Edited November 20, 2006 by david i

[PenHero]

But, happily, during the last few years, it has been my pleasure and obligation  to advise hundreds or more people of some of the realities of the scene.

David,

 

I find it very interesting that you're willing and even feel "obligated" to gossip about the PCA off-line, but have absolutely no willingness or feeling of obligation to go on the record about it.

 

I think that pretty much sums up that the issue has no merit at all. Why keep bringing it up if there's nothing there?

 

There really isn't any "reality" to the "scene", is there?

 

BTW - What exactly is your "mission" with regards to PCA ethics?

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

Edited November 20, 2006 by PenHero

[david i]

on the contrary.

 

 

I've gone thru it more than 1000 times, by best count. I find it interesting that you know the issue but act as if you do not. I suppose, that the concern by those who speak for or in interest of PCA that I talk about it is reason enough to wait. It works so much better in privacy of communication at shows at this point. Specially when i get all these emails telling me, 'i'm starting to understand why you had concern" as folks are exposed to their own concern.

 

If folks wish to support corrupt organizations, more power to them. I just caution them.

 

best

 

david

[PenHero]

David,

 

Only *you* can tell your side. Why am I not stating what the problem is? Because it's *your* problem. You're the one who repeatedly brings it up. It makes no difference what I know or don't know. You're the one who doesn't want to follow up "unethical" and "corrupt" with WHY.

 

If the PCA is corrupt and unethical, I haven't seen it. And since the on-line community is made up of many people who are *not* included in your hundreds who have heard your story 1,000 times, you do them all a disservice by making a public accusation about the PCA that you're unwilling or unable to back up. The fact that you repeat it so often can only be interpreted that you intend to harm the PCA.

 

Interesting that not one of those hundreds you've repeated the story to 1,000 times has posted the "real" story in your defense. Why not? Surely one out of hundreds will come forward and back you up.

 

What I know of the problem is that you are involved and it involves money. I believe that part of the story to be factual. The rest of it is clouded in opinion and hearsay that only you and the other direct parties involved can clear up. One of them has gone public on-line asking you to drop this.

 

You're the one shouting "fire" in the theatre. Where's the fire? Let people decide for themselves.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[david i]

golly, don't think i've ever claimed that it is other than my problem... my problem based on behavior at business level of pca.

 

and, i cheerfully address my problem with the pca.

 

You sound a bit testy. Embracing this stuff cheerfully is much more fun.

 

d

[Stylo]

And if you like mud wrestling, you can watch L & D go at it

Their spin on "business ethics", or the lack thereof, did not impress.

 

Considering that about 1/3 of poll respondents haven't even heard of the PCA, I think it is only fair to ask to elaborate on and support such statements or not make them at all.

[PenHero]

golly, don't think i've ever claimed that it is other than my problem... my problem based on behavior at business level of pca.

 

and, i cheerfully address my problem with the pca.

 

You sound a bit testy. Embracing this stuff cheerfully is much more fun.

 

d

David,

 

I'm not testy at all. How about persistent?

 

You on the other hand are being evasive. Every answer is a non-answer.

 

What conclusion should people draw when you are asked repeatedly to state your reasons for accusing the PCA of ethical problems and corruption and your answer each time is a non-answer.

 

You said the PCA is unethical. WHY?

 

You said the PCA is corrupt. WHY?

 

Your answer - lots of words, no content. Noise but no music. Smoke and no fire.

 

Obviously, there's no real issue here. It has to be personal and you don't want to talk about it, but you *do* want to take shots at the PCA. So how about stopping with the PCA is unethical and corrupt? It simply isn't true.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[aunt rebecca]

hi,

 

david, you and i have had dinnner, shmoozed at pen shows and have been together at club meeetings. i do not know why you regard the pca as corrupt. i only know that you have great animus toward the organization.

 

it is a new day and a new group of officers, it is time....to either state the cause of your animus, besides using words such as corrupt or unethical--or to forgive--which is divine.

Edited November 20, 2006 by aunt rebecca

[david i]

Ah, you and i did grow acquainted later in pen life :-)

 

When we do dinner next week or so (?), i will fershure fill you in.

 

david

[david i]

David,

 

I'm not testy at all. How about persistent?

 

You on the other hand are being evasive. Every answer is a non-answer.

 

What conclusion should people draw when you are asked repeatedly to state your reasons for accusing the PCA of ethical problems and corruption and your answer each time is a non-answer.

 

You said the PCA is unethical. WHY?

 

You said the PCA is corrupt. WHY?

 

Your answer - lots of words, no content. Noise but no music. Smoke and no fire.

 

Obviously, there's no real issue here. It has to be personal and you don't want to talk about it, but you *do* want to take shots at the PCA. So how about stopping with the PCA is unethical and corrupt? It simply isn't true.

 

Cheers,

 

Dunno, sound testy to me. You of course are welcome to view as otherwise. Just as i graciously permit you- despite your knowing the issue- to ask what is the issue.

 

Persist away.

 

The more honest opportunity i have to warn people from the PCA the better.

 

I'm persistent too :-)

 

d

Edited November 20, 2006 by david i

[Titivillus]

David,

 

I'm not testy at all. How about persistent?

 

You on the other hand are being evasive. Every answer is a non-answer.

 

What conclusion should people draw when you are asked repeatedly to state your reasons for accusing the PCA of ethical problems and corruption and your answer each time is a non-answer.

 

You said the PCA is unethical. WHY?

 

You said the PCA is corrupt. WHY?

 

Your answer - lots of words, no content. Noise but no music. Smoke and no fire.

 

Obviously, there's no real issue here. It has to be personal and you don't want to talk about it, but you *do* want to take shots at the PCA. So how about stopping with the PCA is unethical and corrupt? It simply isn't true.

 

Cheers,

 

Dunno, sound testy to me. You of course are welcome to view as otherwise. Just as i graciously permit you- despite your knowing the issue- to ask what is the issue.

 

Persist away.

 

The more honest opportunity i have to warn people from the PCA the better.

 

I'm persistent too :-)

 

d

I am curious as to what your issue is with PCA. There is great amount of discussion both ways but so far I haven't seen anything beyond allegations with no backing information.

 

 

I am not nor ever have been a member of PCA.

 

Kurt H

[PenHero]

The more honest opportunity i have to warn people from the PCA the better.

David,

 

Warn people from WHAT?

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[kazoolaw]

Jim,

You can repeat the question all you like, David I won't answer. He'll act like there is an issue, he'll tell you that YOU should know the issue, he may even tell you the issue increases his sales.

 

But when he's in this mode he will studiously avoid responding to your simple question. When he "embraces this stuff", what he's describing is drawing you into a long drawn out exchange which goes nowhere.

 

Confront him if you must at a pen show where he apparently loves to gossip with no record of what he says ( "It works so much better in privacy of communication at shows at this point."), but don't expect an honest answer here. The longer you engage him in what he thinks is his snappy repartee the better he likes it.

 

Your point has been made, and I appreciate your effort on behalf of the PCA.

 

gary

[david i]

really?

 

Well, more attention always is appreciated ;-)

 

Jim should "confront" me at a pen show about this? Confront is such strong language. Has not Jim indeed discussed this very issue *with* me at a pen show? Does he not already know the answers to his own questions? Always interesting when folks ask questions to which they know the answers.

 

Charming, to be sure ;-)

 

Well, we must indeed have a new generation of collectors out there, given that all this has been common and well disseminated news.

 

Perhaps i shall compose an article on it one day.

 

In meanwhile what were the cited PCA membership numbers 3 years back... 1800? 2000?? And today? Hmmm, 800 lost in three years or just "erroneous" reporting back then with no losses since? EIther way, same old same old.

 

The thread asked about our PCA membership. I can but reiterate that i opted not to continue a membership which treated its editors poorly, has gone through so many since, and which is not good for its own word in business relationships.

 

But, i'm cheerful and generous in my advice. If y'all have better personal experience, if you feel you get value for the dollar, if it is the best place for you to spend some hobby dollars, more power to you. I advise, you decide. Fair and Balanced all da way.

 

best

 

david

[Stylo]

Always interesting when folks ask questions to which they know the answers.

I don't know the answer. The 37 folks who said they don't even know of the PCA don't know the answer. So what is the answer?

[aunt rebecca]

david,

 

like fox news you are not fair or balanced.

 

no more on this subject--

 

finished, done!

 

my advice is that the pca is an organization that has gotten its act together and deserves a chance to inform and service us hobbyists.

 

my 3 cents. aunt rebecca

[david i]

What, you don't like Fox News????

 

Shocked I am, utterly shocked :-)

 

david