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Senator pen company


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18 replies to this topic

#1 stylus

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 20:44

Hello,
I was wondering about Senator pen company. There isn't many available information about it. However I found that is was once known as MERTZ & KRELL. Does anyone have more info about it? When M&K changed it's name to Senator?
Thank you
Dubravka

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#2 Meanchime

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 21:03

As far as I know Senator was the brand name the company`s founders chose for their writing instruments and office products. Just like the Simplo Pen Company chose the name Montblanc as brand name for their pens.
Here`s a link to the Senator Company`s website. It doesn`t provide that much information about their historical development but perhaps you can get more information directly from them:
Merz & Krell - Senator - Company Website.
smile.gif

#3 Oxonian

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 17:04

Hi Dubravka,

Senator is one of the brand names used by Merz and Krell, they also used the Diplomat name. They supplied nibs to other makers, their nibs are usually identified by the logo of a chamois or a deer, (I am not sure which) and a mountain.
Cheers John

#4 stylus

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 13:45

Thank you both for your answers.
Dubravka

#5 saintsimon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 18:48

QUOTE(Oxonian @ Oct 12 2006, 06:04 PM)
... are usually identified by the logo of a chamois or a deer, (I am not sure which) and a mountain.
Cheers John

John, do you mean this logo? huh.gif


It is the steel nib of a nameless pen in an auction ... smile.gif

Edited by saintsimon, 13 October 2006 - 18:50.


#6 Oxonian

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 19:54

Hi saintsimon,
Yes that is the one I meant, I think it is probably a chamois but as always I could be wrong.
Cheers, John

#7 Michael Wright

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 21:05

I think that logo is actually the Bock mark -- a rebus, Bock being the word for "stag" or some such in German.
eureka.gif Just makes connexion with "springbok," "gemsbock."

Uhhh, slower still, just realises "buck."

Well, derrr.

Michael

who ought to be better on etymologies

#8 yoyology

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 21:14

QUOTE(Michael Wright @ Oct 13 2006, 09:05 PM)
Michael

who ought to be better on etymologies

What does this have to do with insects?? blink.gif

(yes, I know what an etymology is. wink.gif The OED is my bible.)

Professional librarian and yo-yo expert


#9 saintsimon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 21:36

QUOTE(Michael Wright @ Oct 13 2006, 10:05 PM)
I think that logo is actually the Bock mark -- a rebus, Bock being the word for "stag" or some such in German.
eureka.gif Just makes connexion with "springbok," "gemsbock."
...

laugh.gif

Chamois translates to 'Gemse' in German, and is the most likely animal if the mountain in the logo stands for the Alps - the habitat of the chamois.

But does Bock in Heidelberg have to do anything with Merz & Krell, Senator et. al.?

BTW, the nib shown above belongs to this pen on Regina Martini's auction site


(Yes, for the people aware of one discussion in the CS forum, this is now the fifth manufacturer (besides CS, MB, Soennecken, Unique) using this specific 'pearl & black' or 'sage green reverse cracked ice' celluloid rolleyes.gif )

Edited by saintsimon, 14 October 2006 - 19:42.


#10 Gerry

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 23:04

QUOTE(yoyology @ Oct 13 2006, 05:14 PM)
QUOTE(Michael Wright @ Oct 13 2006, 09:05 PM)
Michael

who ought to be better on etymologies

What does this have to do with insects?? blink.gif

(yes, I know what an etymology is. wink.gif The OED is my bible.)

Hey Yoyo...

Perhaps you were thinking of Entomology rather than Etymology:

Entomology is the scientific study of insects. Insects have many kinds of interactions with humans and other forms of life on earth, so it is an important specialty within biology; unlike many other fields, however, entomologists include both persons studying insects for their own sake, and those employed by commercial concerns interested in the control of insects. This divides the field into basic and applied entomology.

But the word used by Michael was:

Etymology is the study of the origins of words. Through old texts and comparison with other languages, etymologists reconstruct the history of words — when they entered a language, from what source, and how their form and meaning have changed.

I recall the former being used at the entrance to the Software Maintenance area of our company - it was an inside joke, not explained anywhere formally, but they did a lot of study into bugs from what I understand... wink.gif

The latter is used in the title of an interesting book I like to read from time to time....
'The Concise Dictionary of English Etymology' by Walter W. Skeat.

Unfortunately I don't have an OED to consult, but the definitions above were lifted from Wikipedia, and confirmed in my Pocket Oxford Dictionary...

Please excuse me for having a little fun with your post - but it was irresistible. I'm surprised that Richard didn't chime in here earlier, knowing his penchant for both accuracy and vocabulary. The software connection is also right down his alley. laugh.gif Oh well, I suppose he'll show up later...

Regards,

Gerry

Edited by Gerry, 14 October 2006 - 04:51.


#11 Michael Wright

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 00:56

QUOTE(saintsimon @ Oct 13 2006, 09:36 PM)
QUOTE(Michael Wright @ Oct 13 2006, 10:05 PM)
I think that logo is actually the Bock mark -- a rebus, Bock being the word for "stag" or some such in German.
eureka.gif Just makes connexion with "springbok," "gemsbock."
...

laugh.gif

Chamois translates to 'Gemse' in German, and is the most likely animal if the mountain in the logo stands for the Alps - the habitat of the chamois.

But does Bock in Heidelberg have to do anything with Merz & Krell, Senator et. al.?


According to: http://www.thesouthe...ticles/Nibs.htm


"As we chatted, Otto Bock explained that the firm was founded in April, 1939 by his father, Peter. An initial staff of ten people created high-quality, hand-made gold nibs for several pen manufacturers in the Heidelberg area."

There's also a nice statue of some kind of horned quadruped pictured in front of the factory.

Bock still make nibs for a lot of people.

Best

Michael

#12 saintsimon

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 01:20

QUOTE(Michael Wright @ Oct 14 2006, 01:56 AM)
Bock still make nibs for a lot of people.

Sure, the nib of my Stipula Brunelleschi fits into my Danitrio Takumi, and would fit into a CS or Bexley biggrin.gif

Edited by saintsimon, 14 October 2006 - 01:25.


#13 Meanchime

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 19:19

The german word "Bock" is generally used to describe a male goat or sheep. Or a male guinea pig or rabbit biggrin.gif . But if you hear the word Bock, first thing you think of is a goat.
In the case of the Peter Bock GmbH in Heidelberg they have chosen a young
Alpensteinbock (lat.: capra ibex ibex) for their logo, a majestic wild goat which lives in alpine regions and is famous for its` horns which can grow to an enormous size. The chamois (lat.: rupicapra) can`t compare to them hornwise - for their horns are kinda tiny and shaped different. And it is the chamois that falls victim to the bavarian natives because from this goat`s hair they make their traditional Gamsbart (chamoisbeard) brushes they use to wear on their felthats.

#14 Oxonian

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 20:47

Hi folks

I have just looked at 5 of my later Senators and find that 4 of these more recent pens have a stylised S and senator plus their size letter as the only markings on their nibs. The fifth, the one that use to draw with, has the Ibex/Chamois+ Mountain nib.

One of my earlier and originally more expensive Senators, a 'Professional' has a 14k nib marked with a diamond, within which is what looks like half a radiant sun and a half circle with no radiance lines. I bought this as part of a lot and hadn't had a close look at it until today.

It would seem that Merz and Krell used what seem to be Bock nibs at some periods and in some models and their own S marked nibs in others and the diamond marked nibs on yet other, originally more expensive models.

The 5 Diplomats that have passed through my hands in the last couple of years have all had the Bock nib in 14k in a couple of different sizes.


Does anyone know if this diamond mark is M&K's mark or is it the mark of another independent nib maker?

Do modern Diplomat pens still use the Bock nib? I haven't had a close look at a recent one.

Cheers,
John

#15 Kaweco

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 21:28

Hi John
The diamond shape with the half sun is the emblem of DEGUSSA. (Deutsche Gold- und Silber Scheideanstalt)
They bought the nib production department of Osmia in 1932. The DEGUSSA produced gold- and steelnibs until a few years after ww2. Then the factory went to Mutschler- Reform. Bock established 1939, nearly a mile away from Degussa.
Kind Regards
Thomas

#16 Oxonian

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 17:07

Hello Thomas,

Thank you for the information, for those of us with an interest in mid 20th. century mid-European pens you are a source to be treasured and you are, I am sure, much appreciated by many others as well as myself.

Cheers and kind regards,
John

#17 seymour

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 14:01

Hallo all

I bought a used Senator President. I didn't know the firm but at less than $20 (in Israeli currency), it seemed reasonable.

I checked catalogs and to my surprised found that the price of a my model new is officially about $160.

It is almost as pleasant to write with as a Parker 51 and I am very happy with my buy. However can anybody help me with filling it. I don't seem to have got the knack of their sort of piston filling. I manage to fill about a quarter of its capacity.

A good weekend to all

Chaim Seymour
Israel
Chaim Seymour
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Givat Shemuel
Israel
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#18 buccaneer

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 15:43

QUOTE (stylus @ Oct 11 2006, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello,
I was wondering about Senator pen company. There isn't many available information about it. However I found that is was once known as MERTZ & KRELL. Does anyone have more info about it? When M&K changed it's name to Senator?
Thank you
Dubravka


I am quite sure that the Chinese have taken over the company, or they are manufacturing for "Senator", since my last purchase and that of a fountain pen of this brand was from Dubai - UAE. It is nice fountain pen in transparent blue color, fancy to look at. Inlay filler pump and bronze metal clip. I bought the pen for US$6/-. Works fine..

#19 RevAaron

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 04:06

The Chinese may have taken over the parent companies, though from what little I know that isn't the case. Last I read, Senator (the pen company) was still owned by Merz. Their primary business seems to be pharmaceuticals, these days.

A press release from 2003 states:
QUOTE
Senator USA is a division of Merz & Krell, Europe’s number one producer of high quality promotional writing instruments. It produces over 300 million pens per year at its factories in Germany and the United States.


Don't get me wrong- a lot of companies have seen huge changes since 2003, so take this with a grain of salt!

EDIT: Looks like they still owned Senator in late 2008. Mention of Senator in this press release from July 2008.

Edited by RevAaron, 02 June 2009 - 04:09.

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