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Counterfeit Nib ?


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53 replies to this topic

#21 Aricton

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:42

Suddenly, I wonder if some of the supposed misspellings you see on fleabay aren't actually truth-in-advertising . . .

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#22 Brian Anderson

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:57

Ever hear of "park pen" or "waterson" ? I am in disbelief that someone would copy an esterbrook nib. Pretty wild.

There are plenty of copies of esterbrook nibs, some without anything but a number, some with warranted, etc. Esterbrook pens were highly copied, Misterlook, Eester, Skater, and others I probably have forgotten. Most were J series, but I have one that is close to an icicle, and another an SM clone.

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#23 kathleen

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 13:16

"Pictures or it didn't happen.".Posted Image
Brian, We want to see pictures.

Edited by kathleen, 19 October 2010 - 13:17.

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#24 adt475

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:36

Thanks Kathleen.
Now I have to go through ALL my esties and look at their Barrel and Nib imprints.

Alan

#25 PaFitch

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:43

I'll swap you a real Esterbrook nib for the Easterbrook if you so desire.

I've not seen one of these. The pen looks authentic.

T


WHOOP!WHOOP!WHOOP! WE HAVE A DEFCON 5 C-WORDER ALERT!!

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Naw--just your normal accumuluser.

#26 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:52

I'll swap you a real Esterbrook nib for the Easterbrook if you so desire.

I've not seen one of these. The pen looks authentic.

T


WHOOP!WHOOP!WHOOP! WE HAVE A DEFCON 5 C-WORDER ALERT!!

Bruce in Ocala, FL


Naw--just your normal accumuluser.


Only a committed (or one who SHOULD be committed ;) ) C-Worder would purposely buy a hard to find **counterfeit** item of his favorite pen marque...

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#27 ToasterPastry

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:01

I have a Skater pen. Looks just like a Parker Vacumatic. However, since this is the Esterbrook forum, I am prohibited from showing it.

I think that if you hype it enough (not that I've ever seen that done), your Easterbrook nib will become more valuable than those silly Esterbrook ones.
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#28 AndiN

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 19:00

I can't remember where, but I have seen an Easterbook pen somewhere. Probably during a pen hunt. I remember looking at it, commenting to my husband about someone counterfeiting an Estie, then laying it back down.

Now I kinda wish I'd gotten it. If nothing else, I could have given it to Kathleen to go with her nib. :)

One of the first FPs I ever bought my husband was a Soyuz. It's a knock-off Parker. Being a Russian buff (and historian), he liked the pen, but the converter eventually broke, so we got him a real Parker 51 as a replacement.

#29 kathleen

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 19:12

I can't remember where, but I have seen an Easterbook pen somewhere. Probably during a pen hunt. I remember looking at it, commenting to my husband about someone counterfeiting an Estie, then laying it back down.

Now I kinda wish I'd gotten it. If nothing else, I could have given it to Kathleen to go with her nib. :)

One of the first FPs I ever bought my husband was a Soyuz. It's a knock-off Parker. Being a Russian buff (and historian), he liked the pen, but the converter eventually broke, so we got him a real Parker 51 as a replacement.


That is a kind and generous thought, "I could have given it to Kathleen to go with her nib". I have locked that impostor, Easterbook nib away and I will not let it keep company with my authentic Esterbrook pen. If an Easterbook pen exists that is where this deceiving nib belongs.
If everyone will keep their eyes open maybe we will find the pen you saw and little bit, by little bit, learn a bit more about Easterbook, the fake Esterbrook.



"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#30 79spitfire

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 21:54

I've read the whole thread and I still can't help but wonder why Esterbrook? Why would you copy something that was value priced to begin with?? How much less could an Easterbook pen could have retailed for, and still been profitable to make?

But then again there are cheap knock offs of Hero pens (I know I accidentally bought a 10 pack :headsmack: )

I'll keep my eyes open for one now!

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#31 cutter

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:05

What I want to see is someone write a fictional history about easterbook pen company. I think it would be fun to read...

Seems to me that if you're looking for fictional history about Easterbook pen co. you should be looking in Rabbit's direction(closest thing to an Easter bunny we have on here) :bunny01:
Another Day Another (Esterbrook) Dollar.

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#32 Rabbit

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 23:12

I'm reviving an old thread here with some updates.

I had a great day today because I attended a local pen collectors meeting, and I had the pleasure of meeting Kathleen there. Though she's had the deceitful Easterbook nib in quarantine for a while, she agreed to let it see the light of day at least once more so that I could take some photos of it.

It definitely is an interesting item. Again we asked the question: why go through so much trouble to make a fake of something so inexpensive? The quality of the craftsmanship is, at first glance, very good; however, upon closer inspection it becomes apparent that the nib overall is poorly made, ranging from the inconsistent depth of the imprint to the collar that seems stressed as it stretches over the oddly shaped and very ragged feed. You can easily imagine the lack of care that went in to cutting the feed, gouging the ink channels, and sawing it to shape. The tip is difficult to decipher. It's obviously uneven and thus not a good writer, but perhaps when it was new it was better--hard to say. It doesn't look like welded on iridium, yet it doesn't look like rolled over steel either. It's almost as if the tines were manufactured very thick and the tip was carved out of it, or perhaps it was formed in a high pressure press from a mold. Either way, it's far from the quality you would expect from an authentic 9968. I'm glad I had the opportunity to see the nib, but also glad that there are not very many of these contaminants in the Esterbrook nib pool.

Thank you, Kathleen, for the opportunity to see this. I had a wonderful time at the meeting today discussing Esterbrook and beyond!

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#33 corniche

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 02:58

Hello Kathleen, (Dorothy),

I believed you from the start- but the pictures are interesting.

One big clue that this nib was phony and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is the #9000 Series nibs all came in GREEN bases and this nib has a BLACK base, like the #1000/2000 Series.

Still hard to believe someone, (probably someone in China), went through all the hassle to make a near exact dupe of an Esterbrook nib. Well, they say piracy is the sincerest form of flattery. ;)

All the best,

Sean :)
aka, The Cowardly Lion of Estie-Land ;)

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#34 watchin

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:48

There are more than just one Easterbook nib. As hard as it is to imagine a knock off Estie nib it is impossible to imagine a knock off of just one. I would think an easy way to spot these is the color of the collar. Granted, many 9XXX nibs appear black until cleaned. if they stay black after a proper cleaning then check them out a little closer. I will have to say that is very interesting and does make a great collector's piece.
-William-

#35 Rabbit

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:26

That's good in theory, but I don't think it's going to work in practice. I've seen enough 9xxx Esterbrook nibs with black collars to assume that they had a brief period of time when they made them with black. At first I wondered if they were repairs done by previous owners, but then I just kept seeing more and more of them. When I got a couple that were NOS in box with black collars, that was enough proof for me that they did make some this way. (it would be unlikely that all of these are counterfeit, and if they are, the collar is the ONLY thing I can detect different about them as the nib imprints are proper and the feeds are normal.) Perhaps the company was trying to save money one year so they didn't use the green ones or maybe they had an abundance of black collars at one factory that they were trying to use up... who knows. Edit to add: the nibs in one group I got recently have a feed that would place their origin in the mid 1940's.

--Stephen

Edited by Rabbit, 16 January 2011 - 04:32.


#36 corniche

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 05:06

That's good in theory, but I don't think it's going to work in practice. I've seen enough 9xxx Esterbrook nibs with black collars to assume that they had a brief period of time when they made them with black. At first I wondered if they were repairs done by previous owners, but then I just kept seeing more and more of them. When I got a couple that were NOS in box with black collars, that was enough proof for me that they did make some this way. (it would be unlikely that all of these are counterfeit, and if they are, the collar is the ONLY thing I can detect different about them as the nib imprints are proper and the feeds are normal.) Perhaps the company was trying to save money one year so they didn't use the green ones or maybe they had an abundance of black collars at one factory that they were trying to use up... who knows. Edit to add: the nibs in one group I got recently have a feed that would place their origin in the mid 1940's.

--Stephen


Greetings Stephen,

That makes sense, the period when #9000 nibs appeared with black fittings, was most likely during WWII and shortly afterward. My money would be on the WWII era because a lot of things were rationed, (including dyes, pigments and coloring agents- I know Lucky Strike cigarettes packaging changed color during WWII- it went from red to green or green to red, I don't recall). My guess is the coloring agent used to make the plastic green was rationed, so Esterbrook made all the casings black. The other option may be that they did this simply to simplify production and increase output to meet the WWII era’s heightened demand for products with fewer resources to make them.

Simplified production to meet high demand may have carried on for a few years after the war to satisfy a product hungry consumer base that had been deprived for so long as well.

* EDIT: I remember now, the shield on Lucky Strike packaging used to be green; however, the components required to make green ink were rationed and they switched to red for WWII- and never switched back- they're still red today. - SPC.

Thanks,

Sean :)

Edited by S. P. Colfer, 16 January 2011 - 09:19.

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#37 mstone

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 15:40

* EDIT: I remember now, the shield on Lucky Strike packaging used to be green; however, the components required to make green ink were rationed and they switched to red for WWII- and never switched back- they're still red today. - SPC.


That ad campaign was famous: "Lucky Strike Green has gone to war!" In reality it had nothing to do with rationing or the war, they already had planned to change the package. The shameless slogan did give them a sales boost for seeming patriotic.

#38 corniche

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 17:49

* EDIT: I remember now, the shield on Lucky Strike packaging used to be green; however, the components required to make green ink were rationed and they switched to red for WWII- and never switched back- they're still red today. - SPC.


That ad campaign was famous: "Lucky Strike Green has gone to war!" In reality it had nothing to do with rationing or the war, they already had planned to change the package. The shameless slogan did give them a sales boost for seeming patriotic.



Greetings mstone,

I do not know whether or not it was a shameless marketing tactic on Lucky Strike's part or not; however, I do know that many, (but not all), green inks/dyes/pigments were rationed because at that time, many of them were still made using copper-based derivatives and/or other "in demand" components; which would give one plausible explanation why Esterbrook stopped using green bases in that particular era.

All the best,

Sean :)

Edited by S. P. Colfer, 16 January 2011 - 17:56.

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#39 mstone

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 19:38

I do not know whether or not it was a shameless marketing tactic on Lucky Strike's part or not; however, I do know that many, (but not all), green inks/dyes/pigments were rationed because at that time, many of them were still made using copper-based derivatives and/or other "in demand" components; which would give one plausible explanation why Esterbrook stopped using green bases in that particular era.


http://www.snopes.co...luckystrike.asp

As for the lack green plastic on master points, it's possible that it was caused by rationing of copper, but it's just as possible that Esterbrook had to shift suppliers, or that they wanted a change, or that they were feeling pinched and tried to cut inventory costs by not having to stock an extra collar color. I haven't found many references to green paint rationing other than the claims made by lucky strike, and given the enormous quantities that the US government burned through I can't believe it was a serious raw materials issue. (On the other hand, the insatiable demand by the Army for all things green may have just bumped up the prices through simple supply & demand.)

Edited by mstone, 16 January 2011 - 19:40.


#40 corniche

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 20:55

"...I haven't found many references to green paint rationing other than the claims made by lucky strike, and given the enormous quantities that the US government burned through I can't believe it was a serious raw materials issue. (On the other hand, the insatiable demand by the Army for all things green may have just bumped up the prices through simple supply & demand.)


Greetings mstone,

First, internet retrieved data gives me considerable pause; I would prefer a data source more credible than a website and a couple of liberal newspapers with an agenda. (Mind you, I’m not saying it isn’t true; however, I would like to see better sources than the one{s} cited). Secondly, almost EVERYTHING was rationed during WWII for one reason or another for civilians and non war related industrial production. In your own roundabout way, you hit on the reason- everything was rationed for us because government/military demand took preeminence- nothing was rationed for them. ;) Finally, I also mentioned Esterbrook might have done this to streamline/increase production.

(FYI- My very own father fought in WWII and my very own mother lived through it as a civilian; so I have received a lot of information from people who experienced it all first-hand- not to mention what I learned as a political science/history major at Franciscan University of Steubenville, {and then later, Ohio University}. Always remember, those who do not know their non-revisionist history are doomed to repeat it :D ).

Unfortunately, as prolific as the Esterbrook company was; I’m afraid there will be a great many questions about them and their practices left unanswered.

Best regards,

Sean :)

Catholicism is the law of life, the life of the intelligence, the solution to all problems.  Catholicism is the Truth and everything that departs from it, one iota, is disorder, deception and error. - Juan D. Cortés

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