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Dating Montblanc 149s


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580 replies to this topic

#61 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 03:32

I agree with Chris. This is an example of the first plastic feed, and is not necessarily usually associated with the nib you have...which would be a bi-color 18K nib or a bi-color 14K nib depending on purchase/production date. See, isn't this fun?


I agree

Just an amateur's opinion here - your feed looks like the modern plastic one - did you buy the pen new, or from someone on ebay?
Your nib looks like a 70s nib, maybe at some time someone has swapped nibs in your pen - it is confusing, but it does happen.
I hope an expert can reply soon and give more details.


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#62 CS388

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 03:41

Kai and I feel that it would be best if the "latest version" of the chart and images could be pinned, with continued discussion in this thread. As changes become necessary, as I am sure they will, we can then update the pinned version.


Excellent idea.

And possibly locked? - or at least specifically moderated to keep it as a valuable resource, rather than a 50 page rambling thread? (How much is my MB worth etc etc)



Edited for the usual reasons

Edited by CS388, 10 October 2010 - 03:43.


#63 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 03:59

Only when there is a modicum of consensus.

[Excellent idea.

And possibly locked? - or at least specifically moderated to keep it as a valuable resource, rather than a 50 page rambling thread?


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#64 CS388

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:08

Only when there is a modicum of consensus.

[Excellent idea.

And possibly locked? - or at least specifically moderated to keep it as a valuable resource, rather than a 50 page rambling thread?


Agreed.

And hoped for.

#65 talkinghead

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:18

Kai and I feel that it would be best if the "latest version" of the chart and images could be pinned, with continued discussion in this thread. As changes become necessary, as I am sure they will, we can then update the pinned version.



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MY-stair-shtook eyn-HOON-dairt noyn und FEART-seeg (Meisterstuck #149)
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#66 talkinghead

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:21

Actually, in the last 24 hours I've changed my tune on this chart....

I totally loathe this new chart!....You have now thrown my chances of snatching up those poorly photographed, poorly described, 60's #149's auctions out the window. Thanks a lot!! :mad:


Rick
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#67 Chris Chalmers

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:49

I vote for the 'pinned and update when we can' version please. :unsure:
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#68 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 10:29

there were also rare 18 ct two tone nibs made especially for the french market from the late 60's to the early 80's.
I have two 149's fitted with these nibs. Here is what looks like a rare 18ct two tone flexible nib Posted Image, btw the feed has been changed in the late 80's by the original owner
Posted Image
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#69 Barry Gabay

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:30

Good morning Pen Fans,

This chart has become a new addiction! Yipee!!! Far less expensive than hunting and buying fountain pens.

Welcome to this forum, soroos. You will encounter friendly people here. The feed on your pen is from ca. 1992-96. It was the first plastic feed on the 149s. It was replaced by the one shown on the far right of the David-Kai chart, the second generation feed which has been in use since 96. For those of you with Writer's Edition pens, you can look at the Hemingway feed for first generation and the Dumas feed for a second generation example. The nib on your pen, three-tone 18C, as noted above, is far older than the other components on your pen. Your pen was made sometime between the early 1980s and yesterday morning. We can narrow the dates later by answering additional questions. At this point, let's just say you have a fairly recent pen with a nib replacement. Your replacement nib, by the way, is one of the very great nibs which was produced for the 149, considered the best or second best by many collectors, especially Europeans who have more experience with 18 carat than do North Americans and Asians. Congratulations on a wonderful new acquisition.

#70 seymour

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:49

Hallo all

Can anybody tell me if this fantastic table can be used to date the 146 as well?

Chaim
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#71 Wideguy

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:50

Dear Hari
Is one of these....................???
Best Wishes
Adam


I recently bought these two 149s from two individuals in the USA. The pens are in factory configuration and single owner used. Coincidentally, the pens are nearly identical. Both sport W.-Germany on clip, no serial number, split ebonite feeder, and brass filler threads, thus making them transitory? very late 80s to early 90s. I found that the shape of the nibs was slightly different, the one on the right slightly wider and rigid, the narrow one on the left is quite springy.
[/quote]

#72 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:18

Unfortunately, no. The 146 was not in production between 1960 and 1972 or 1973, although I have an example of a very early resin 146 with 50s feed and nib. The 146 when thru some style changes in the late 80s and early 90s...going from the blue/gray ink window to slotted ink window, ebonite feed to plastic feed and mono-color to bi-color nib. Variations of 146s with any and all combinations of these components are commonly found.

Many of the subtle engineering changes of 146s which can help pinpoint construction can only be found when the pen is disassembled.

Hallo all

Can anybody tell me if this fantastic table can be used to date the 146 as well?

Chaim


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Thank a Veteran.



#73 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:20

It's interesting that I have found more 18C nibs on 149s lately than 14C nibs. Not sure how rare they really are.

Eric

there were also rare 18 ct two tone nibs made especially for the french market from the late 60's to the early 80's.


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#74 humblescribbler

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 14:22

So, I'm still not quite on the chart. Here is the tri-color 18C with (it turns out) solid ebonite, which I had previously thought was plastic (that's why I rely on YOU guys!) w/ single body construction. But granted, it still could have been later tinkered with by MB repair or some such.

Maybe I'll send it to one of you folks for tuning and the dismantling could reveal further clues? Sheesh, I'm thinking about this before I go to sleep at night! How pathetic is that!?:blink:

Thanks,

Michael

#75 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 15:07

Michael- The charateristics of your pen indicate an early 1970s pen.

So, I'm still not quite on the chart. Here is the tri-color 18C with (it turns out) solid ebonite, which I had previously thought was plastic (that's why I rely on YOU guys!) w/ single body construction. But granted, it still could have been later tinkered with by MB repair or some such.

Maybe I'll send it to one of you folks for tuning and the dismantling could reveal further clues? Sheesh, I'm thinking about this before I go to sleep at night! How pathetic is that!?:blink:

Thanks,

Michael


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#76 hari317

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:32

Some pictures as promised:

Narrow vs Wide shouldered 14C nibs, I think, pls correct me:

Posted Image

Posted Image

1-piece Resin Barrel with the screw in filler:
Posted Image

Clip button from the 60s.: I need to learn more about this. So far, I have seen this clip only on stock pen caps that had the plastic screw post:
Posted Image

Modern Clip button,: probably welded to the clip. So far, I have seen these only on the caps that have a seperate slot head screw to secure the cap tube-clip washer and top.
Posted Image

Posted Image

18K 2-tone nib with STOD mark(The photos are of a NOS example):

Posted Image

Posted Image

First generation plastic feeder, same pen as above:

Posted Image

Posted Image

I hope the pictures are useful.

Regards,
Hari

Edited by hari317, 10 October 2010 - 17:43.

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#77 hari317

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:47

So, I'm still not quite on the chart. Here is the tri-color 18C with (it turns out) solid ebonite, which I had previously thought was plastic (that's why I rely on YOU guys!) w/ single body construction. But granted, it still could have been later tinkered with by MB repair or some such.


Hi Michael, you have a correct 70s pen. I had asked for the feeder photo since it is uncommon to find a plastic feeder in a 1 piece barrel. MB will not do such a job(they will replace the whole barrel), it can happen only with a third party repair if the repairer is unable to salvage the original feeder and fits a feeder available at hand.
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#78 Michael R.

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:59

Some pictures as promised:

[...]

Regards,
Hari


Many thanks Hari!

Now I have a much better impression of the nib variations.

I really have to get more into 149s one day.

Cheers

Michael

#79 Rick Krantz

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:20

Okay, so I picked up a 149 today. Dont ask what I paid... Lol... I tried to use the chart, and I'm stuck... The pen I bought, has a 18c tri color nib, with a lot of flex, the ebonite feed is round, with the cut outs in the front only, the barrel appears to be one piece, the filler appears to have a rounded ring, with black threads. Is there possibility for overlap on the nib? According to the chart, it should have a 14c nib... Very nicely done, very MB newbie friendly. BTW, is this pen considered a celluloid model?
Posted Image

#80 niksch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:26

Rick-

You've got a mid to late 1960s 149, and 18C would also be correct for this pen. Your pen is resin, not celluloid.

Eric

Okay, so I picked up a 149 today. Dont ask what I paid... Lol... I tried to use the chart, and I'm stuck... The pen I bought, has a 18c tri color nib, with a lot of flex, the ebonite feed is round, with the cut outs in the front only, the barrel appears to be one piece, the filler appears to have a rounded ring, with black threads. Is there possibility for overlap on the nib? According to the chart, it should have a 14c nib... Very nicely done, very MB newbie friendly. BTW, is this pen considered a celluloid model?


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Thank a Veteran.








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