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Dating Montblanc 149s


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#21 humblescribbler

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:28

COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Here's an image of one of my 149s, post-1985, with a 2-section barrel. The arrows show a line visible at the junction just below the threads and above the ink view window:



AHHH!! I see. That was very helpful. Mine's definitely a one-piece barrel as just examined under a 10x loupe. And I apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread w/ a discussion about my particular pen.:embarrassed_smile:

I'll still post a pic later tonight and see if we can "chart" it. I'm certain that Hari's surmise is correct, and will still try to find the info re: MB 1494 stock in retail outlets w/o nibs.

Thank you and, again, wonderful matrix you've produced!

Michael

#22 sunnerd

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:43

David, this is a very comprehensive taxonomy of the various 149 parts and their history. Many many thanks for doing it!
:thumbup:
Now can someone advise if there are further subtle differences over the years on the following:
1. section lip
2. filler brass ring (roundish vs crisp)
3. clip
4. imprints on the cap and blind cap.
Best regards, Kai
Montblanc 13x, #20/25/30/40, 244/6 Green Marbled, 322 Azure Blue, 234 1/2 G/PL, 256, 220, 34.
Montblanc 144G Grey, 146G Green Striated, 146 Silver Barley, 149 (50s-00s).
Montblanc WE Christie, Imperial Dragon, Wilde, Dumas, Dostoevsky, Proust, Schiller, Verne, Mann, Twain. PoA Prince Regent, Morgan...
Visconti Pontevecchio LE, Metropolitan Gordian Knot, Ripples. Omas Paragon Royale Blue HT, Extra Lucens Black LE. Pilot Silvern. Pelikan 620 Shanghai, 800 Blue o Blue.

#23 NABodie

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:51

Super chart! Great work on this. :clap1:

#24 DKbRS

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 19:07

Thanks. Now if I only had a bit more practical rather than theoretical knowledge AKA I need more 149s.
David

#25 soapytwist

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 19:28

As this thread has already proved, this timeline with illustrations would be brilliant!

I'd be happy to donate pictures of my two (1950s and 1991-4 models) but others may have better facilities and more pens to give better photos. Please PM me if you're thinking of incorporating pictures.
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#26 mr. abulia

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 21:55

COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Here's an image of one of my 149s, post-1985, with a 2-section barrel. The arrows show a line visible at the junction just below the threads and above the ink view window:



AHHH!! I see. That was very helpful. Mine's definitely a one-piece barrel as just examined under a 10x loupe. And I apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread w/ a discussion about my particular pen.:embarrassed_smile:

I'll still post a pic later tonight and see if we can "chart" it. I'm certain that Hari's surmise is correct, and will still try to find the info re: MB 1494 stock in retail outlets w/o nibs.

Thank you and, again, wonderful matrix you've produced!

Michael


Interesting! I just bought a pen from Texas that sounds exactly the same: it has what looks like a 1-piece body, plastic filler, 18C tri-colour, somewhat flexible nib. The feed is a bit scratched up, so I'm not sure exactly which it is.

Hari, if you or anyone else would like to take a look, I don't have the pen yet, but pictures of it are here. Bonus points if you can tell me what kind of nib I am getting (looks like a "fine" to me).

Cheers!

#27 mr. abulia

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 21:59

As this thread has already proved, this timeline with illustrations would be brilliant!

I'd be happy to donate pictures of my two (1950s and 1991-4 models) but others may have better facilities and more pens to give better photos. Please PM me if you're thinking of incorporating pictures.


That would be excellent! If this chart grew to incorporate illustrations as well as the other features (cap, engravings, rings, etc.) I'll bet DKbRS could sell it as a poster :)

#28 lsmith42

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 22:09

Someone's been studying their Tufte... very nice!
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#29 humblescribbler

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:02

Ok here it is. Apologize for the photo quality -- my first attempt on this board. And I double checked my feed is strictly the modern plastic horizontal combs w/o any grooving, unlike the last pics I just saw in a previous post which has grooving.

And I think I was confused about the changing out of the nibs after customer purchase by the Pentrace article found here.

http://www.pentrace....05 <br /><br />Specifically stated here if you don't want to use the link. I changed the font to differentiate it:

"The 50's celluloid pens have the model heat stamped on the filler knob, I have yet to see one with the nib style stamped and I believe it's because in the day if you bought one of these the nib of your choice was fitted for you. I think this allowed the store to keep a smaller inventory of expensive pens on hand. Also note the gold band near the filler, early pens have a rounded band and even into the 60's this is true, after about 1972 the band is flat and wide."

A re-read seems to indicate retailers were able to keep less 149 bodies in stock, since the nib was fitted after. Does anyone else read this differently? Or is this just speculative?

Thanks

Michael

#30 meiers

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:28

Nicely done. I will take a close look at it later.
Just corrected thirty student essays. That has left me a little cross-eyed.

By the way, I would never date a 149.
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#31 mr. abulia

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:32

Humblescriber: do you have pictures of the feed and rest of the pen? I am wondering how similar it is to mine!

Thanks

#32 hari317

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 05:38

Ok here it is. Apologize for the photo quality -- my first attempt on this board. And I double checked my feed is strictly the modern plastic horizontal combs w/o any grooving, unlike the last pics I just saw in a previous post which has grooving.


Michael, Your pen is a nice example of the 1 piece barrel. Can you pls take a picture of the feeder too? The 1 piece barrel was phased out by the mid 80's, the plastic feeders appeared in the 90's with the redesigned feeder case with orientation slots.

Best,
Hari

#33 hari317

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 05:48

Interesting! I just bought a pen from Texas that sounds exactly the same: it has what looks like a 1-piece body, plastic filler, 18C tri-colour, somewhat flexible nib. The feed is a bit scratched up, so I'm not sure exactly which it is.

Hari, if you or anyone else would like to take a look, I don't have the pen yet, but pictures of it are here. Bonus points if you can tell me what kind of nib I am getting (looks like a "fine" to me).

Cheers!


Seems like you are getting a nice, somewhat flex nib with a unflexed F width. The Feeder looks like a "modified" full grooved ebonite feed, cannot guess why it required this hack. Maybe the grooves were deformed during repair and the person decided to totally excavate and merge the shank grooves.

The filler washer looks flat to me, not rounded in my opinion, so it will be nice if you can update this thread when you receive the pen. The seller claims that the pen has the earlier press fit filler.

Posted Image

Best,
Hari

#34 mr. abulia

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:54

Thanks Hari. I will take some better pictures and post them once the pen does get here. The waiting is the hardest part!

#35 sunnerd

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:13

As a new collector, I've always been confused with the names people give to the parts, and often there are no pictorial descriptions.
Following are my understanding of the parts of each era:

Nibs:

14C tri-tone nib
Posted Image

18C Tri-tone nib
Posted Image

14K Two-tone nib
Posted Image

18K Tri-tone nib, note the StoD mark
Posted Image

missing the 18K two-tone nib and 14C two-tone nibs

Feeds:

Round ebonite grooves face & shank feed
Posted Image

Round ebonite grooves face feed
Posted Image

Solid ebonite feed
Posted Image

Split ebonite feed
Posted Image

Plastic feed (note the numeral "2" at the bottom of the feed, next to the section)
Posted Image

missing flat ebonite feed

Barrel

Single unit barrel
Posted Image

2-section barrel
Posted Image

Filler Threads

Telescopic no threads - note the round piston ring
Posted Image

Black plastic threads - note the round piston ring
Posted Image

Brass threads - note the crisp piston ring
Posted Image

Edited by sunnerd, 08 October 2010 - 17:50.

Best regards, Kai
Montblanc 13x, #20/25/30/40, 244/6 Green Marbled, 322 Azure Blue, 234 1/2 G/PL, 256, 220, 34.
Montblanc 144G Grey, 146G Green Striated, 146 Silver Barley, 149 (50s-00s).
Montblanc WE Christie, Imperial Dragon, Wilde, Dumas, Dostoevsky, Proust, Schiller, Verne, Mann, Twain. PoA Prince Regent, Morgan...
Visconti Pontevecchio LE, Metropolitan Gordian Knot, Ripples. Omas Paragon Royale Blue HT, Extra Lucens Black LE. Pilot Silvern. Pelikan 620 Shanghai, 800 Blue o Blue.

#36 DKbRS

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:45

Those are superb images; thanks very much for posting these. I have never seen such an excellent set of descriptive images all in one place.
David

#37 soapytwist

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:57

Perfect images! Sunnerd - it would be great to incorporate those into the timeline document, PDF it, and pin it at the top of the board.
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#38 hari317

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:29

Superb pictures Kai. i think the early plastic feed is missing, I have examples with 18K Bi tone and the said feed, i will take some pictures next week. Also in the filler ring sequence, the rounded press fit filler's picture will be required. Alas, i have no examples from this era.

Thanks!
Hari

#39 DKbRS

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:40

Kai (sunnerd) and I have teamed up! We've consolidated his images and my chart, as follows:

Posted Image

Edited by DKbRS, 09 October 2010 - 12:02.

David

#40 Chris Chalmers

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:46

Thanks to David and Kai - an amazing help for ID-ing 149s - I've added it to my files for future reference. :notworthy1:
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