Koh-i-noor Or Rotring Rapidograph?

[JayC]

Ok so these aren't fountain pens but I figured this was the best place to ask because somebody here must use them. Anyway I am looking to buy some Rapidographs but I am not sure which to buy because there are a lot of factors I am looking for and I am not exactly sure what the answers are unless I ask someone who has bought them. Anyways I have a list of questions that I need answered before I invest my money into buying a couple.

 

Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph

 

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6035/kohinoorrapidograph.jpg

 

Rotring Rapidograph

 

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8051/rotringrapidograph.jpg

 

1. How much maintenance does either require? I know that that the Koh-I-Noor requires some more because you must fill it manually.

 

2. How long can ink stay in either before you must clean it even with daily use?

 

3. Does the Rotring when ordered from DickBlick or other companies come with replacement ink cartridges?

 

4.I have heard the Koh-I-Noor has to be practically at a 90° angle with the paper for it to work and that the Rotring can be at a more relaxed angle?

 

5. Does the 0.13mm nibs on these work well because I was planning to buy that size but if it clogs too much I probably wont't even bother?

 

6. Lastly what was your overall experience with these pens? Do you use them daily? How good are they compared to cheaper alternatives like Sakura, Copic, Staedtler, etc?

 

Thanks!

[Enai]

I have the Rotring Rapidograph 0.5mm. I think that, by design, it is a low-maintenance pen. The ink cartridge also contains the ink "collector", so that gets replaced whenever you change the ink cartridge. I have abused mine and left ink in the pen until it dried out (pen was kept with the nib up). That presented no problem---I just changed the ink cartridge and the pen immediately wrote as normal. I now have regular fountain pen ink in the cartridge (an empty one which I cleaned out and filled with a syringe). I can write with it using a fairly shallow angle, similar to the angle I use when writing with my fountain pens. But this might also depend on the ink you use. It's a very good technical pen, in my experience.

[watch_art]

I've got a koh-i-noor. took a class in college from gary simmons, the guy who wrote the book on this pen (literally) "The Technical Pen". Love the pen, hate the tiny capacity. Low maintenance as well. Easy to clean using the ear bulb trick and some ammonia/dish soap water. Great pen.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Pen-Gary-Simmons/dp/0823052273/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286072871&sr=8-1

Edited October 3, 2010 by watch_art

[Splicer]

I believe the Rotrings are superior to the Koh-I-Noors but there really isn't a world of difference.

 

Rotring Isographs are comparable to the Koh-I-Noor Rapidographs in that they use a refillable ink reservoir rather than cartridges. They are harder to find in the states but I think they are of slightly better build quality. They have removable "collars" which make maintenance easier.

 

The real question is whether you're going to be happy with the ink cartridges. If you go with Rotring Rapidographs, you're stuck with the Rotring inks that are offered in carts, and that's black, red, blue, and there might be a green as well. Not a lot of selection. If all you use them for is black line drawing there is some advantage to the carts as mentioned by Enai (who also explained how to get around the drawback).

 

+1 on watch_art's book recommendation. I've never taken a class with Gary Simmons, but his book is probably the one I take off my shelf most often in the studio.

[watch_art]

Gary's a really cool guy. Had a lot of fun in his class. He's been teaching out at Henderson for, gosh, I dunno, twenty years or more, easily. The book was actually a gift when I was in the 9th grade, back in '95 or 6.

 

Here are some pics of mine disassembled a while back for somebody on another forum.

 

3 fits into 2, and 2 fits into 1.

3 is the wire tip that allows ink flow. When in use, the wire is pushed back and ink flows out and around. When not in use, the wire sort of falls into the tip of #2 and blocks ink flow. Something like that...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4784806337_ea5b4a32e4.jpg

 

 

THis is the bulb cleaner for flushing the unit. It screws on to the #1 in first photo and it came with a little dish of ammonia water.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4785438020_9464643e90.jpg

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4784805419_5bcae56d5c.jpgkohinoor (10) by watch_art, on Flickr

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4784805137_57d62cc648.jpg

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4784804549_848cdd7e7e.jpg

Edited October 3, 2010 by watch_art

[JayC]

Yea I was planning on buying that book but wasn't completely sure it was worth the 80 dollars... does it have any cool insight on the history of tech pens or cool techniques etc.?

[watch_art]

I wouldn't pay 80. I'd go on amazon and get one used for $25 or so. Insights on the history? I don't know. Gary told us that Koh-I-Noor hired him to write this book and the first day of class he told us that these pens were designed for use by drafters (is that right? draftsmen?) on vellum for architecture and other very technical drawings. He used it for art, and they wanted to expand their customer base, so they hired him for the job. He was even invited to the company's board room so he could show them all the different ways they could use it (textures and patterns and cross hatching and other cool drawing stuff).

 

History, though? That might be in the book. I've never read the whole thing. I could look thru it if you'd like, later on.

Edited October 3, 2010 by watch_art

[JayC]

Yea was gonna buy it new off Amazon but getting it used should be fine and I can also pick up some other books.

[Rose Nibs]

I have used, loved and destroyed countless technical pens over four decades and my all-time favourites are the black 1960s Koh-I-Noors that are still occasionally offered for sale on eBay. The modern ones are less comfortable to hold for me and the plastic doesn't have the same feel. To overcome the problem of cemented points I use Parker Quink which is black enough for my purposes. I don't like being compelled to use Rotring inks with the Rotring stylographs, so I just refill them with a syringe. The contemporary Rotrings and Koh-I-Noors are similar in operation for me. That white plastic doesn't stay white. Don't pay retail, try eBay. Lots of people have old serviceable technical pens they don't use.

[watch_art]

I have used, loved and destroyed countless technical pens over four decades and my all-time favourites are the black 1960s Koh-I-Noors that are still occasionally offered for sale on eBay. The modern ones are less comfortable to hold for me and the plastic doesn't have the same feel. To overcome the problem of cemented points I use Parker Quink which is black enough for my purposes. I don't like being compelled to use Rotring inks with the Rotring stylographs, so I just refill them with a syringe. The contemporary Rotrings and Koh-I-Noors are similar in operation for me. That white plastic doesn't stay white. Don't pay retail, try eBay. Lots of people have old serviceable technical pens they don't use.

 

Definitely. I'd say don't pay more than $10 or 12 per pen.

 

I've only had to KIN pens. The first one was destroyed by my little brother when I was in high school. He took the barrel off and then put it back on and torqued it down so much he mushroomed and cracked the barrel. He also bore down on the point one time and just destroyed the tip. Little turd. But my second one has been working and just fine since college. But $45 for one pen was too much. Ebay ebay ebay.

[JayC]

Ok I guess I will try to look for some older Koh-I-Noors because I didn't really want to buy ones that are white because I like all my stuff to stay clean, I looked on Ebay and there were a couple guys selling some but the nibs would be too big for what I am doing. How small do the older Koh-I-Noor's go? Also is anyone selling them on here? Thanks.

[watch_art]

My kin is .04mm I think. They go smaller.