Swan Calligraph

[ingenbay]

Hi all,

 

I have been wanting to get a Mabie Todd Sawn for awhile. It will be my first flex nib, which is why I am buying.

 

From my research I have decided to start with one of the cheaper, self filling, black models, with a #2 Nib.

 

I have heard 8 people say 8 different things about the degree of flex on that nib. However it seems to be the most common and cheapest to start with.

 

I do not mind if the nib is not the super-duper, wettest noodle, amazing flex nib - that you spend your entire life passion searching for lol. I would even be happy starting off if the #2 is just semi-flex.

 

 

Currently there is a nice looking Swan "Calligraph" that is in good physical condition, blue bodied, with a #2 nib. The price is really attractive, I may have to replace the sac - but I can live with it for the asking price under 40.00 USD.

 

I would like to know how the writing is different in these models. I understand that body has cosmetic differences, but I cannot find any info on what makes this #2 nib different from all the swan #2's. From what I read, most swan's can be used for calligraphy if the nib flexible enough.

 

I have used and collected FP's, paper, wax seals etc., since I was 13, and do not consider myself a noobie. However, I do not write in Calligraphy; I know many do and love it, but I have no desire for it. I am buying the pen for general use, and I worry that if I buy this model, I will not be able to use it correctly unless I know Calligraphy. I like fine, smooth nibs, and would get no use if this style of swan is made to produce some large broad italic lettering - that you would see on a letter which took days to write. I thought if you press a flex enough it will give you a broader line, suitable for Calligraphy anyway.

 

Could this model simply be a cheaper version - that is marketed differently or aimed to reach a different audience - but in fact has the same characteristics of a normal Swan?

 

Sorry to be long winded, but there is not an abundant wealth of info on Swan's nor much standard in terms of models. Here is an example of this pen I am describing:

 

swan

 

I have asked the seller for more info / pics of the nib and will update on what I discover.

 

 

Thanks for any help or advice given!

 

-Travis

[Bo Bo Olson]

Are you spelling the name right. I think there is a couple of different letters.

From what I read, it was not a calligraphy pen but a name that is similar.

 

1951 Swan Calligraph, it has a special ground nib with the letter C on it, .

 

Pen was not a success.

The first Calligraph had a side lever, end of 1951 they went to a a twist the top mechanism to fill. 1956 back to a lever fill.

 

number 2 nib is a small one...I was looking for a 4-5-6 my self.

Normally a Swan had semi-flex to flexible nibs....how ever when looking for a good swan...there is two companies that send you refurbished pens of good quality. They are worth their price...and not cheap.

 

Having looked at those two company's descriptions, I was surprised that there are normal nibs there are also semi-flex and more Flexible nibs...but I doubt if they made nails.

 

There is also a company that does big pictures and don't refurbish...Excellent condition...with normal bite marks and brassing...which I don't see as excellent condition.

 

Spend some more time, looking to get the exact nib you want, semi-flex or more flexible, in a more expensive refurbished pen.

Very early '50's pens are ok, those of 1955 and later not.

 

I was looking for flexible nibs...not knowing I needed a EF semi-flex until an German Osmia in semi-flex Fine arrived.

Having some 33 black and black topped pens, I was more interested in the colored Swan pens of the late '30's. They have a strange; complicated and delicate filling mechanism, to get around all the patents.

Not everyone can repair them.

It got so I was willing to go black to get the nib I want.

 

I am using some one's system who sells '30's Diamond pens, for flexible nibs.

Maxi-semi-flex or F-1....where's the circus...expands no more than semi-flex, but lighter. (I have two in this range)

F- 1 1/2 not quite. ( I have one.)

F-2 here come the clowns....Handlebar mustache on the fancy L, sidewinder rattlesnake S's. (that's the one....got one)

F-3 the weak kneed'ed Wet Noodle...for experts only. (Mine needs re-tipping, will cost $60 that the name who will says it is worth it. He's got enough work, he don't got to pull my chain.)

 

With the disappointed folks that got a Swan semi-flexible or F-1, instead of a Swan F-2...the word Flexible covers all three of the above.

 

My conclusion of having looked for two or more months and being out bid on the two I wanted, is; if you deal with the honest and more expensive companies you have a much better chance of getting a F-2 what you are looking for, than off the Bay.

 

Looking for an F-2 nib will take you a long time, don't hurry and don't cheap out...some what flexible or flexy might not be what you want..from some one who don't deal with the pens...then you got to get it refurbished.

I'd looked for the lever fillers and hoped. I was willing to take black...until I lucked into a F 1 1/2 and th F-2 on Black German pens.

 

Don't do as I do....do as I tell you.....Take your time...spend more money, and buy from those two who have good pens with a properly rated nibs.

 

Buy the nib, black pen or not...some day you can with lots of luck find that nib in a pen in living color, and up grade. You can if foolish sell your spare nib in the black pen.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[ingenbay]

Thanks Bo Bo!

 

You are correct and not correct at the same time. I did spell the name of the pen right, however, I assumed that it was some short or alternate name for their calligraphy pen (because another website described it as such).

 

Can you explain what you mean or to what extent / effect the nib being a " special ground" one, on the calligraph model has.....as in terms of writing?

 

 

 

I am pretty sure I want to start with semi flex, as I don't think it would be as temperamental, allow me some spring and slight variation, without me having to alter my writing style too much.....

 

Although after reading your advice, I think I am more confused / uncertain if a #2 swan nib (if correctly marked by the dealer or seen with my own eyes) would be the one I want...

 

And even more so unclear if a Calligraph (Again assuming it is marked properly by the dealer) #2 nib with the C marking would compare to the standard #2.

 

Perhaps I am just dense.

 

I used to live in NYC and think it would have been much easier to goto a store and hold one to see.

[Bo Bo Olson]

All I got is from Lambrou's book.

 

I'd started out looking at the 'same' pen, but with a bigger nib, before drifting towards the torpedo lever model just before. I wanted a lever model in it is fix at home.

 

 

I could well be wrong, but I'd think a larger nib might be easier to be made semi-flex. A 1 and 2 are small nibs.

 

What does the dealer say the nib is...regular, semi-flex or "flexy" Some folks don't know the difference between semi-flex and Flexy.

 

I do hope you get a nice semi-flex nib...I was looking for a "Flexy" nib.

With real early '50s and before you have a much better chance of a nice nib.

 

Conway Stewart made only regular flex nibs.

 

 

What color is the pen, for black 40 pounds seems a bit high.

 

I had thought that if I got to have some body who is a real Swan expert...not just pen expert fix my pen; I might as well go looking for the real pretty ones of the '30's.

The Calligraph pens I did see in my search....did not scream...Buy Me.

 

In that the quality fell rapidly after 1955, I'd not buy a pen from then.

 

Go back to the Swan page in British Ebay, and look up some of the middle class 70-90 pound buy now pens. Look for the two companies that give a refurbished and ready to write pen, with the flex you want.

Book mark those tow companies...it's really the only way to fly.

 

Take your time.....don't hurry....Swan has good nibs. I had turned down a number of semi-flex nibs(on nice looking pens), in my search for a flexible nib.

 

I love my semi-flex nibs, they are lively, and I don't have to worry about busting them by being a tad ham fisted.

 

Some times you get lucky on the Bay...often you pay to repair....so in your case I recommend looking a bit longer and paying a bit more.

Find those two companies that tell you what flex the nib has.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[ingenbay]

Thanks so much again, you have probably saveed me from an impulse buy, but I am not counting it out as an option.

 

The color is actually blue (which I don't mind), and it is $35 USD which works out cheaper than 40 pounds. Also the dealer says it is a semi-flex, but does not claim to be an expert.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Blue...good.

Does the pen work?

 

Is it a lever fill? If so no big problem to fix a dead sac. Any one can do that, and not too expensive...if you don't want to try your self. If you can find any one reputable for $15,* that's a good price...any thing higher, you can do it your self.

* Bound to be some one here that can do it, or refer you to some one.

 

Is it a twist mechanism? If so does it at least suck water...in the sellers often never saw a bottle of ink in their lives.

 

If it sucks water then $35...not too bad. Sooner or later you got to replace the rubber gismo inside; it is 50 years old.

 

Tell the seller if it is not Semi-flex you will send it back to him.

 

Don't know where you are at.

 

If in Britain, and you buy, make sure the sender says on the customs slip, English made pen: Swan.

 

If customs gives you any BS tell them to learn to read, it don't fall under custom laws.

If any more BS in I've heard they charge a handling fee some times, tell them to send it back.

If they say they are going to charge you any way, say, see you in court. But they have to bring the pen; it is evidence.

[ingenbay]

Great to hear! It is a lever, and I think the sac will need to be replaced, but I have done that on several other brands before, so it should not be too hard.

 

So I am assuming that if it is a true semi-flex, blue-lever fill, then $35 USD is not too bad of a deal?

 

Heck, the way I look at it is thats the price of a nice meal or 3 cocktails!

[Bo Bo Olson]

So I am assuming that if it is a true semi-flex, blue-lever fill, then $35 USD is not too bad of a deal?

 

 

Yes..go for it.

I like I said was searching for Flexy or a Flexible nib; and passed up a number of nice semi-flex.

 

 

 

Have lots of fun......you do know you need OBB, BB, OB (15 and 30), B, OM, M, OF, F and EF in semi-flex don't you.......???

 

Looking at it logically, you could end up with a fine collection of Swans....a fine collection at that.

 

Had I not lucked out with some German pens, I'd ended up with some Swans.....

 

 

Nibs first, pen second....sooner or later you are going to get a pretty pen with a grand nib...and the '30's Swans have some real pretty pens...at once a year prices...but just think of the favor you will be doing to your liver, with out all that fatty food and expensive booze.

[ingenbay]

Yes, they say it is a fine, which who can really be sure? Those terms are very subjective and mean different things to different people. I will be very happy with a F or even EF, and happy with a M...as long as it is not in the B ranges, I do not use those because I like to write in small journals like the Midori Traveller's Notebook.

 

You have been really helpful.

 

Now I must make a confession! I have another reason for wanting one of these pens. I really do like vintage, and want a simi-flex. I want it to be this brand because I love Swans. They come up all the time in my life, I love their symbolism (black swan, swan song, etc), my favorite song is called "Swans - Life after death", one of my lovers - that I have lost - shared this passion with me. So the imagery on the barrel and clip of the swan is very beautiful and a huge selling point for me. I know that is a terrible reason to buy a pen and it is not my main reason, but I sure do like it as an added bonus!

[Hugh200au]

The Calligraph models come from the final days of Mabie Todd , really not the quality of earlier pens so give them a miss is the best advice I can give one those. The pen you linked in the OP appears to be a 4?60 ( the ? is the nib size in this case, ie if it had a no.2 nib it would be 4260) and these are twist fillers ( they have a sac and a bar inside the barrel and when you twist the end piece the bar twists the sac up....like wringing out a handwasher...and when twisted back the sac fills) as opposed to lever fillers. Lever fillers are better, easier to re-sac and more reliable. The no.1 nib is small, the no.2 is really the "standard" Swan nib and widely used and IMO a very good, usable size (the bigger the number the higher quality the nib). They range from flexible to firm and medium the most common size, from a practical point this is a good size.

Reasonable priced late '40's series are the 3xxx line (and the6xxx). The first number indicates the shape, the second the nib size, the third colour ( 2=drk blue, 3=grey, 4=drk green, 5=brown, 6=black) and fourth is variations ( 0=plastic pen, 1= rubber, 5=marbled colour(in the 6xxx) ). ie a 3240 has a 2 nib, dark green and made of plastic. The section of these is threaded into the barrel and a number 17 sac is easiest to put in.

Avoid the 3170,3171 etc line.....cheap pens

 

Regards

Hugh

 

 

[ingenbay]

Thats wonderful advice Hugh, thank you so much! Looking at these pens is a bit more difficult than other vintage pens I find, not quite as easy as picking a 51.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Great stuff there Hugh...thanks

 

ingenbay, the difference between F, M and B is one letter in my seven letter last name.

When I write my last name in F, it is half a letter larger in M, and a full letter larger in B.

 

Go to Richard Binder's com and down load his stroke chart.

The size B is lots less wide than one thinks.

 

And you need a B nib, it adds a bit of piazza to your writing and loosens you up.

So leave it at home, for writing on real sized journals or sheets of 8x11 paper. You are allowing some one else's industrial standardization dictate to you what nib you have to use, and missing a fun nib.

 

I really like my '50's OB's; they have a large sweet spot; allowing me to write regular or oblique, with a tad of difference of the effect it gives me.

I also have OM and OF. The sweet spot is narrow there and I have to hold it oblique or crooked to get the pattern.

 

I'm of the Silver Dollar generation, and I did not know of broad or narrow nibs in working class fountain pens. I do remember liking the narrow points one got on the inky finger ball points, even could get EF in ball point....But as I remember they were hard to find and teachers didn't like squinting at them.

 

The first thing I did when coming back to fountain pens a couple of years ago, was go broad, in I did not want to be all cramped up. I didn't need to, being retired. I could afford paper; not being a school kid, where paper was expensive, and one needed to scribble on every square centimeter.

I went broad, now I'm going narrow; having just got a semi-flex EF. I need an OBB and a BB in semi-flex.

Most every one goes from medium to broad or to narrow and eventually goes back to the other extreme; sooner or later.

 

So if a good semi-flex Broad or OB comes by....grab it.

It will un-cramp your soul. Like a bookkeeper on his Harley.