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Rohrer & Klingner - Scabiosa


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#1 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 03:48

Kindly adjust the brightness & contrast of your monitor to accurately depict this Gray Scale.
As the patches are neutral gray, the colour on your monitor should also be neutral.
Calibrate Mac http://www.wikihow.c...te-Your-Monitor
Figure 1.
Gray Scale.
Posted Image
Figure 2.
Paper: HPJ1124 Laser Copy.
Swabs: Waterman Florida Blue. R&K Scabiosa.
Posted Image
NIB-ism LINK
Depicts relative nib width and wetness.

WRITTEN SAMPLES: Moby Dick

Note - Narrow Nibs:
First two rows are 5mm wide; the last two rows are 8mm wide.

Figure 3.
Paper: HPJ1124 Laser Copy.
Posted Image
Figure 4.
Paper: Clairefontaine Triomphe.
Posted Image
Figure 5.
Paper: G Lalo, Verge de France, White.
Posted Image
Figure 6.
Grocery List
Paper: Pulp - from a one-a-day cartoon calendar.
Posted Image
Figure 7.
Out of curiosity.
Paper: QuoVadis journal with ivory paper (Clairefontaine?)
Posted Image

OTHER SAMPLES:

Figure 8.
HAPPY ! :) On glossy card stock.
Smear / Dry Time.
Wet samples.
Paper: HPJ1124 Laser Copy.
Posted Image

GENERAL DESCRIPTION:

Type:
  • Iron-gall fountain pen ink.
Daily writer?
  • Afraid not - for me anyway. (This is Ms Blue-Black speaking; I am not channelling Walter Cronkite, OK?)
  • Will do very well for those who seek a very unique ink: shading and colour are without peer.
Other:
  • The visual weight and presence are a bit odd: having a warm tint, the colour wants to come forward, but somehow is bound to the plane of the page.
  • This might be a 'Must Have' for someone who has an itch they can't scratch.
USES:

Business:
  • While this is the least 'red' of all warm colours I can recall, it is still not quite a colour that might find its way into the conference room.
  • The grey-rose may well seem conflicted or indecisive. (?)
  • And with it being so unique, it may actually be distracting. (??)
  • Signatures. (It's yours!)
  • Not snappy enough and too dark for mark-up, editing, revision.
  • For correction / grading, it does not have enough zip & zap to stand out.
Illustrations / Graphics:
  • Absolutely.
  • Can be paired with either warm, cool or neutral colours and would complement them all. (Throw away the Colour Wheel for this one!)
  • Lack of feathering and the i-g tight clean lines supports its use for extremely narrow lines/labels in drawings/diagrams; and the colour should provide eye-relief even when saturated, (no edge-effect).
  • Due to the shading, it is not a candidate when even tone is required. e.g. Large areas to be blocked-out, though cross-hatching will compensate.
Personal:
  • This is the arena for this ink.
  • It is a unique ink, so I suggest exploiting that by using a somewhat wet, but not saturating writer. As this ink seems to run at the 'true' width of a nib, I'd think a M-B nib would to it - not just a plump M.
Students:
  • While I think it certainly wonderful for notes, (good on poor paper, robust, etc.), it may not be acceptable for assignments.
PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE & CHARACTERISTICS:

Flow:
  • Widely considered to be dry / dusty, which it is - in spades.
  • Problems were encountered while preparing the Written Samples on the G Lalo. *expletive*
  • LINK
  • Other than the hard textured G *expletive* Lalo, Scabiosa did well.
Nib Dry-out:
  • Not noticed.
Start-up:
  • Good.
Lubrication:
  • Lean, barely adequate. (Seek a smooth nib & paper.)
  • Typical of an i-g ink.
Nib Creep:
  • None.
Staining:
  • Not noticed in the short term.
Clogging:
  • Unlikely.
Bleed Through:
  • Not on any of the papers.
Show Through:
  • Both sides of paper may be used without a problem.
Smell:
  • Very faint.
  • Reminiscent of blanched almonds.
Hand oil sensitivity:
  • Not noticed.
Archival:
  • Very likely.
Water Resistance: (Figure 8)
  • Excellent.
Smear Results: (Figure 8)
  • Dry within 25 seconds.
Bulletproof:
  • N/A.
Clean Up:
  • Quick & thorough with plain water.
  • *One should cleanse pens completely, including the innards of the cap.
  • As with other inks, I flush and cleanse a pen after use. I-G inks are not of the sort to let dry-out in a neglected pen. However, other practitioners have reported that pens inked with i-g ink start right up after not being used for months on end. Not I; use 'em then clean 'em.
Mixing:
  • No stated prohibitions / limitations, but from personal experience do not mix with Sailor nano inks: the likelihood of a precipitate / sludge forming is very real.
  • I have used this ink to warm my sole brown, and to add even more dimension to the Herbin 'Larmes de Cassis'.
THE LOOK:

  • As mentioned above, i-g inks have a different look to them than purely dye-based inks.
  • The i-g inks seem to reside slightly behind the plane of the writing surface; but as Scabiosa is warm, it wants to come forward. I believe this is one reason that Scabiosa can be seen as indecisive : it creates visual tension.
Saturation:
  • Struggles to achieve solid density.
  • A wet-ish writer and compliant paper are required.
  • And I wonder if saturation is contrary to the character of the ink; so no acts against Nature, OK?
  • LINK
Shading:
  • Extraordinary & unique.
  • Shading Link
  • Shading LINK
Feathering:
  • None noticed

:thumbup:


Variance depending on pen+nib combos used:
  • More than I though I'd see! especially with the wider nibs!!
FIDELITY:

Is colour name appropriate / accurate?
  • No idea.
  • Name has something to do with flowers - not a persistent nasty skin condition of reptiles.
PAPERS:

Lovely papers:
  • This ink should look good on all white papers.
  • Could overcome paper with optical brighteners with a bit of a tussle.
Trip-wire papers:
  • Any that are hard, dry or textured.
Tinted Papers:
  • After choking on the G Lalo VdF, I tried a sheet from the Quo Vadis Habana journal with the plain/blank ivory paper. Very nice indeed; no feathering or bleed-through either. Some show-through, but for a personal journal, no big deal.
Is high-end paper 'worth it'?
  • Within the limits of the Trip Wire papers mentioned above, it's a matter of preference over performance, especially as Scabiosa does well with lesser papers.
OTHER THAN INK:

Presentation :
  • 50 ml. bottle.
Country of origin:
  • Germany.
Container:
  • A very simple cylindrical brown-tinted glass bottle, 40 mm diameter and 78 mm tall.
  • The centred round opening is an adequate 22 mm.
  • The text on the label is in four European languages.
  • The hard white plastic screw cap has adequate grippy nodes, and is easy to grasp. Note: I heard the plastic lid was replaced by a metal cap.
  • The cap is not child-proof.
  • The cap seal is 'foam' plastic.
  • Single tank, no filling aids, no sediment collector. Another Tsk!
  • Label wraps around, so ink level cannot be determined - no good for Snorkels! (Bah!)
Box:
  • Pleasantly absent.
Eco-Green:
  • Bonus Points for not using a box
Availability:
  • Various on-line outlets
ETC:

Majik:
  • Possible, but not sure if it'll be worth the sweat.
  • Its pretty impressive from the bottle, so you might just try it with pens & papers at hand, then go from there.
Personal Pen & Paper Pick:
  • The Carene on Clairefontaine, but I'd go for a slightly wider nib. (Time for that stub for the Carene perhaps.)
Yickity Yackity:
  • An elusive ink, which is part of its cachet.
  • Goes down more Red than it appears when dry and cured.
  • Ah kushbaby, not your colour, ...
I=+o+=I=+-+=I=+o+=I=+-+=I=+O+=I=+-+=I=+o+=I=+-+=I=+o+=I

MATERIEL USED:

These pen+nib combos:
(Same as used for the Salix Ink Review.)

For Written Samples:
A. Esterbrook J + 9550 steel Posting XF.
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN446.jpg
B. *Eversharp Skyline + 14K firm F.
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN439.jpg
C. Pilot Custom 74 + SFM
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN442.jpg
D. Waterman Carene + 18K M nib.
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN447.jpg
E. The Notorious Pink Safari + steel B nib + body stocking.
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN659.jpg
F. Sailor Demonstrator + 14K MS nib.
http://i783.photobuc...cans/PEN445.jpg

* The Skyline is considered a Dealers' Choice as it has a firm nib - many in the market are or claim to be flex-ish.

For lines & labels:
  • Pilot Plumix + steel XF nib; inked with Visconti Green.
On these papers:
  • HPJ1124 24 lb. Laser Copy.
  • Clairefontaine Triomphe.
  • G Lalo 'Verge de France', White
  • Pulp - One-a-day cartoon calendar page: Esterbrook J + XF.
  • Quo Vadis Habana Journal ivory
  • Glossy card stock: Sailor + MS.
NOTES:

To be relevant to the most members, I make an effort to use papers, pens & nibs that are readily available, for which I paid $100 or less, and are 'factory stock' - not customised.
If I use something outside of my guidelines, it will be ID-ed with an asterix to denote a *Dealer's Choice.

Scans were made on an Epson V600 scanner; factory defaults were accepted.
Figures shown were scanned at 150 dpi & 24 bit colour.
Images linked were scanned at 300 dpi & 24 bit colour.
Scans were not adjusted other than cropping and straightening using iPhoto on a MacBook, but most went straight to the file sharing thingy.

-30-


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


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#2 geoduc

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 04:45

This one doesn't do it for me. For some reason I find the shading to be irritating, if anything.

How does the color compare to Cd'A Storm?

And what is that blue-green ink that you used to label the samples? That one could be interesting.

#3 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 05:44

This one doesn't do it for me. For some reason I find the shading to be irritating, if anything.

How does the color compare to Cd'A Storm?

And what is that blue-green ink that you used to label the samples? That one could be interesting.

Hi,

This one is very elusive; and certainly will not appeal to everyone. And even if it does appeal to a person, it may not be used all so often. As was evident, I had a bit of a hard time finding the optimum use for this ink; and its not just going to hang out in the 'For Mixing Only' sin bin with the Lamy Green.

With the shading, I think the ink needs more 'air', I typically write as is shown, actually much larger than the 8mm line if one takes the descenders into account. Yet I think an optimum nib is M-B. So for you, as you don't care for the shading, a narrow nib, such as the Skyline F in an 8mm row may do it. Or not.

No idea about Storm - I haven't used that in a long time - 1 bottle was enough.

The ink used to for the labels/titles is stated under the 'Materiel' heading. In this case its the Visconti Green. The Turquoise used for the graffito on the Habana is Skrip Turquoise.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#4 geoduc

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:10

This one doesn't do it for me. For some reason I find the shading to be irritating, if anything.

How does the color compare to Cd'A Storm?

And what is that blue-green ink that you used to label the samples? That one could be interesting.

Hi,

This one is very elusive; and certainly will not appeal to everyone. And even if it does appeal to a person, it may not be used all so often. As was evident, I had a bit of a hard time finding the optimum use for this ink; and its not just going to hang out in the 'For Mixing Only' sin bin with the Lamy Green.

With the shading, I think the ink needs more 'air', I typically write as is shown, actually much larger than the 8mm line if one takes the descenders into account. Yet I think an optimum nib is M-B. So for you, as you don't care for the shading, a narrow nib, such as the Skyline F in an 8mm row may do it. Or not.

No idea about Storm - I haven't used that in a long time - 1 bottle was enough.

The ink used to for the labels/titles is stated under the 'Materiel' heading. In this case its the Visconti Green. The Turquoise used for the graffito on the Habana is Skrip Turquoise.



As always, thanks for your thorough review and responses to followup questions (should have said that in my first response - oops). I was curious about this ink so I appreciate seeing it in action - now I know that it isn't one I'll pursue. Perhaps this is just the color that someone else is looking for, though.

I'll remember to look in the 'materiel' section next time. I haven't seen the Visconti green before, but it seems like it is worth checking out for future reference. You're a marvel, Sandy1. Even when I don't like the ink you're reviewing, you still find a way to make me want to increase my ink population. :lol:

#5 lovemy51

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:39

looooooove the shding! great review, Sandy! gotta go look for it!

#6 tawanda

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:47

I've had the same 'Lalo' experience with the new MB blue-black, or as they are re-marketing it now 'Midnight Blue,' which is also i-g. I thought it was the pen!Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am very weary of i-g inks in general, even though I am an habitual pen cleaner, (once a fortnight whether they are empty or not). So I was quite cross when I was 'taken in' by the lady in the MB boutique while on holiday. She 'forgot' to mention it was i-g, and I just assumed it was a new colour, till I got it home and read the leaflet with it. Its exactly the same. Slightly different bottle design is all. Still, the Violet I bought at the same time was a pleasant surprise: much darker thanelikanViolet, more akin to PR Eb Purple, which I love.
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#7 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 13:31

This one doesn't do it for me. For some reason I find the shading to be irritating, if anything.

How does the color compare to Cd'A Storm?

And what is that blue-green ink that you used to label the samples? That one could be interesting.

...
This one is very elusive; and certainly will not appeal to everyone. And even if it does appeal to a person, it may not be used all so often. As was evident, I had a bit of a hard time finding the optimum use for this ink; and its not just going to hang out in the 'For Mixing Only' sin bin with the Lamy Green.
...

As always, thanks for your thorough review and responses to followup questions (should have said that in my first response - oops). I was curious about this ink so I appreciate seeing it in action - now I know that it isn't one I'll pursue. Perhaps this is just the color that someone else is looking for, though.

I'll remember to look in the 'materiel' section next time. I haven't seen the Visconti green before, but it seems like it is worth checking out for future reference. You're a marvel, Sandy1. Even when I don't like the ink you're reviewing, you still find a way to make me want to increase my ink population. :lol:

Hi,

I'm glad that my IRs convey enough info to satisfy most curiosity, and to support decisions about purchase. I am certainly pleased when an IR results in a decision not to purchase ink. Obviously I don't Review only those inks that I support. (And have lost my objectivity at times. oopsy)

And the responses and follow-up chatter is so very important.

And you're correct - even if I may not like an ink, I hope that my enthusiasm for ink in general comes through. (If I wasn't enthusiastic, I wouldn't be generating this sort of IR.)

Oh, but after the Lamy Green fiasco, I won't be doing a Review of another Green ink for some time to come. Perhaps someone else will cover off that bit of the colour wheel.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#8 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 13:51

looooooove the shding! great review, Sandy! gotta go look for it!

Hi,

The shading is very unique. I wrote the Samples back in June, so they could cure for a month, and flipped through them just to check for changes over time, and each time I looked at them I was more inclined to bring Scabiosa forward on the ink shelf.

I think one should not pick and choose when to use this ink, but just start using it - certainly no one will be offended by it.

And if you're going to go for Scabiosa, please let us know of your wee adventure.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#9 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 14:46

Hi,

Well, I'm a big fan of the i-g inks. It all started when I was gifted with a MB149 which had a bottle of '149' ink cossetted in the package. I absolutely loved it, and the rest is a happy tale. I still consider the 149 with the BlBk / MB a premier FP experience yielding amazing and unique results. (Its that good.)

But to the Lalo:
I must say that the Lalo rarely brings out the best in an FP. Yet it does have a following and it is a standard, (widely available and well regarded), so I use it as an example of a hard dry textured paper.
So when a dry writer performs well on the Lalo, it's a sure indication that the ink is 'wet'. If an ink chokes on the Lalo, then it is dry.
And for Scabiosa, samples from all pens showed problems on the Lalo, so the ink is ultra dry = 'dusty'. (Compare that to how Salix ran on the Lalo - the same pens were used. A bit of a shocker really.)

I do use the Lalo for personal use, and go for wide nibbed wet writers. (The Mon morn tongue-twister.) The paper can take a lot of ink when I'm throwing it around; very robust. Obviously not a 'dainty' like the stuff in the Habana journal. (I really hate hardbounds with *Lloydword* fussy paper.)

Best Regards,
Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#10 Lloyd

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 17:50

*Lloydword*

I'm delighted at how I've been immortalized in your technical reviews.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
Oscar Wilde

#11 Wilander

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 18:09

Great review and very informative. This is one of my favorite iron gall inks, and I've found it to work great in a work setting or for personal use. Its shading is excellent, its color subdued enough to be distinctive without unnecessarily drawing attention to itself, and its permanence is obviously unquestioned. I would be delighted if R & K would attempt a brown or green iron gall ink, if that's possible.

#12 WillSW

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 18:49

I very much enjoy this ink, and use it in an Estie with a 9550. I may soon modify a Pilot 78G for a wetter flow so I can use it in that. Beautiful ink, I like iron gall water resistance, and lovely color. But the dryness!

#13 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 19:21

*Lloydword*

I'm delighted at how I've been immortalized in your technical reviews.

Hi,
IMHO, the real check for immortality (in the weird-web-world) is to use a few different search engines for such a newly minted term. And it should occur on several sites; and be included on most search engines. (I believe 'sumgai' has achieved that level of immortality. Not 'sumgal' though.)
So let's see in a few month, then a few more.
Rather like when I check the Stats on my Photobucket folder, and notice other sites (where I have not posted) are using the images I post on FPN.
Hmm
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#14 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 19:32

Great review and very informative. This is one of my favorite iron gall inks, and I've found it to work great in a work setting or for personal use. Its shading is excellent, its color subdued enough to be distinctive without unnecessarily drawing attention to itself, and its permanence is obviously unquestioned. I would be delighted if R & K would attempt a brown or green iron gall ink, if that's possible.

Hi,

Glad you liked the Review.

I'm glad that it is suitable in your work setting, and not just for personal use. As mentioned, I'm doing BlBk at the office, and I never think twice. But this ink, I would think twice. If something written in Scabiosa crossed my desk, I'd certainly look twice. But that's just me.

What sort of nib are you using? I suggested an M-B, but that's for my handwriting/scrawl/scribble.

Is the nib wet enough to handle the variety of papers encountered on the job? (Unlikely to encounter G Lalo in my position.)

Bye,
Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#15 Sandy1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 19:41

I very much enjoy this ink, and use it in an Estie with a 9550. I may soon modify a Pilot 78G for a wetter flow so I can use it in that. Beautiful ink, I like iron gall water resistance, and lovely color. But the dryness!

Thanks for chiming in.

Amazing that you're using it in the same pen & nib that appears in the Review!

Well, I use that combo mostly for tiny writing; and I think its pretty darn nice, and wet enough.

The 78G + F: well, I think it's pretty much had its day in my IRs, sure its common and affordable, but the consistency is lacking. Hey, its a $10 pen. But if you can get one tuned to your spec, more power to you!

And what about the way that the narrow nibs are used? Should I keep to the narrow rows or just use the 8mm rows?

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#16 Lloyd

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 00:35

*Lloydword*

I'm delighted at how I've been immortalized in your technical reviews.

Hi,
IMHO, the real check for immortality (in the weird-web-world) is to use a few different search engines for such a newly minted term. And it should occur on several sites; and be included on most search engines. (I believe 'sumgai' has achieved that level of immortality. Not 'sumgal' though.)
So let's see in a few month, then a few more.
Rather like when I check the Stats on my Photobucket folder, and notice other sites (where I have not posted) are using the images I post on FPN.
Hmm
S1

I suppose I should have had a rolling-eyes smiley (:rolleyes:) following my post. I'm not sure if I really want the aforementioned 'honor' bestowed upon my avatar's namesake. Harold was alleged to be quite clean-living and benevolent. Now, if you were using *WCFieldsword*, *ReddFoxxword*, *LennyBruceword*, *GeorgeCarlinword*, etc., I'd like it.

Edited by Lloyd, 13 July 2010 - 00:36.

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
Oscar Wilde

#17 Sandy1

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 03:11

*Lloydword*

I'm delighted at how I've been immortalized in your technical reviews.

Hi,
IMHO, the real check for immortality (in the weird-web-world) is to use a few different search engines for such a newly minted term. And it should occur on several sites; and be included on most search engines. (I believe 'sumgai' has achieved that level of immortality. Not 'sumgal' though.)
So let's see in a few month, then a few more.
Rather like when I check the Stats on my Photobucket folder, and notice other sites (where I have not posted) are using the images I post on FPN.
Hmm
S1

I suppose I should have had a rolling-eyes smiley (:rolleyes:) following my post. I'm not sure if I really want the aforementioned 'honor' bestowed upon my avatar's namesake. Harold was alleged to be quite clean-living and benevolent. Now, if you were using *WCFieldsword*, *ReddFoxxword*, *LennyBruceword*, *GeorgeCarlinword*, etc., I'd like it.

Oh!
I thought you noticed that we're without sound: not a talkie - before sound.
So *Lloydword* is in effect a subtitle or even a guiding narrative comment.
(I need to point-out the tongue-twisters.) :happyberet:

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#18 FrankB

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:12

Thank you for a very complete review.

I have a very difficult time judging color tones. I am not color blind, it is my silly brain. The Scabiosa seems to be very similar to J. Herbin's Poussiere de Lune, which lays a grey-burgundy line that looks very like a wine stain. I like that color a lot. I should probably try the Scabiosa to compare the two for myself.

#19 Silvermink

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 20:06

The Scabiosa seems to be very similar to J. Herbin's Poussiere de Lune, which lays a grey-burgundy line that looks very like a wine stain. I like that color a lot. I should probably try the Scabiosa to compare the two for myself.


I think Poussière de Lune is a little redder, but they're not too far apart. I'd check my ink log, as I have both, but it's at home and I'm at work.

Edited by Silvermink, 14 July 2010 - 20:06.

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#20 Sandy1

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 00:44

Thank you for a very complete review.

I have a very difficult time judging color tones. I am not color blind, it is my silly brain. The Scabiosa seems to be very similar to J. Herbin's Poussiere de Lune, which lays a grey-burgundy line that looks very like a wine stain. I like that color a lot. I should probably try the Scabiosa to compare the two for myself.

Hi,

As mentioned elsewhere, I found Scabiosa to be very elusive: both in trying to describe the colour, and trying to remember the colour when I'm not looking at a sample.

So, JH's PdL:
Posted Image
and R&K's Scabiosa:
Posted Image

Note how the density of PdL grows at each pass, which is different than the way Scabiosa builds density. I believe this is partly a property of I-g inks, and greatly influences the appearance of Scabiosa's shading.

I apologise for not having writing samples of PdL for comparison at this time, but I am hundreds of miles away from my ink shelf, so all I can share is my stuff on online or my Mac's HDD. I hope this is fit-for-purpose.

Regards,
Sandy1

Edited by Sandy1, 15 July 2010 - 02:19.

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