Can You Remove The Feed From A Waterman C.f.

[Tommy]

I've been soaking and flushing this thing for a week and still can't get good ink flow.

So I'd like to disassemble it to clean it better.

 

Can the feed be knocked out from the back like a regular section?

Hopefully, someone was had one of these apart.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/tom1415/Picture164.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/tom1415/Picture165.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/tom1415/Picture168.jpg

[Ron Z]

Can the feed be knocked out from the back like a regular section?

 

NO! Try it and you'll break just about everything.

 

You have to unscrew the threads from the section. Once out, you can then remove the piercing tube and feed. Use thread sealant to secure the threads when you reassemble.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Ron Z

[Tommy]

Thanks, Ron. Took it apart, cleaned it, reassembled, and it's perfect now. A nice little pen with an interesting design inside that section.

[sodul]

This is an old thread but my C/F is also very very dry with no improvement from soaking in pen flush or a vibrating bath. I used teflon tape to cover the section hole so that I could flush the pen very thoroughly, also without success.

 

My CF seems to be the original $15 model, and I got it with the original tin box as well. The feed is keeping up when flexing but the 14K nib is so stiff, compared to my other 14k nibs, that I don't even want to flex it, actually I don't even want to write with it as I feel like writing with a poor quality ballpoint pen: pressing hard to get a readable line.

 

I have tried to unscrew the metal part of the section but I can't get it to bulge. Am I supposed to unscrew the metal part of the section with the same motion used to unscrew the body? Any tips on how to get it unstuck safely?

 

 

[Xof72000]

CF are most of the time dry pens, especially with EF nibs !

 

I didn't understand why you wanted to unscrew the section for ?

 

Anyway, if you want to do so, you will have to hold with proper pliers the end of it, and to unscrew the shell.

Warming it a bit may ease the task (but I'm not sure dismantling it will help improve the problem...)

[PaulS]

Picture attached of a capless and poor condition example that I've just taken apart - you can see this exploded parts plan much better in the Marshall & Oldfield pen repair manual, and their explanation of dis-assembly is doubtless far better than I could describe.

If you crunch too hard on the metal threads of the connector it's possible you might 'oval' that part - I shoved a wooden dowel of suitable diameter inside prior to gripping with section pliers, and it's also possible you might need the hair dryer initially to loosen any aged related adhesion.

Removal of the connector exposes two very small ball bearings in recesses below the trim ring - I didn't know this until I read M. & O. which was after I'd taken my pen apart - so I now need to go back to the garage and try and find them - probably unlikely .......... so suggest if the op does dis-assemble their pen then be warned!!

The innards of the section may well also be jammed - over time ink becomes a stubborn adhesive, and for mine I had to immerse in fairly hot water in order to release the feed, nib and piercing tube etc.

 

Fortunately, my example was an incomplete pen so it will probably mostly now go in the bin. It does seem to be a failing of the model that the chrome trim, in particular, corrodes and spoils the aesthetics of the pen - it was the case on this example.

What these things write like I've no idea - the nib looks like a nail, so probably wouldn't appeal to me.

 

P.S. (with correction) .... there appears to be more than one version of connector - the op's I notice has circular holes, whereas the example above has a single small rectangular opening, which may indicate an earlier model. I do have other examples of this CF which do have the circular holes in the connector.

Edited November 29, 2017 by PaulS

[siamackz]

 

You want to use rubber grips - one hand on the protruding ring between the section and barrel, the other hand on the section. You may need to heat the section. But first try gently with rubber grips. All the best!

[PaulS]

re-assembly isn't difficult, but care needed when replacing the nib which is fitted from the front, and fits neatly inside the two plastic 'wings' which protrude from the front of the section - there are cleats on the nib that need to align correctly with the front of the feed.

The 'wings' aren't overly substantial and it's not too difficult to damage one or both, such that the nib will no longer seat firmly.

 

The imprint for country of origin will be around the barrel just below the threads - nibs for those made for sale in the French market do need to be the French standard of 18 ct., and for U.K. the norm of 14 ct.

Edited November 30, 2017 by PaulS

[sodul]

CF are most of the time dry pens, especially with EF nibs !

 

I didn't understand why you wanted to unscrew the section for ?

 

Anyway, if you want to do so, you will have to hold with proper pliers the end of it, and to unscrew the shell.

Warming it a bit may ease the task (but I'm not sure dismantling it will help improve the problem...)

 

The pen is much too dry to be reasonably useable, it is definitely not enjoyable to me as it is. I'm hoping that a full cleanup of the feed could help. I have tried to spread the nibs with brass shims of increasing thickness but the 14k gold does not seem to want to give. And I do confirm

 

I'm not looking for a wet pen but something that can give me a solid line. I switched the ink from Thornton's Pink to Thornton's Black and it is still very dry. I have not seen other C/F nibs in action so I don't have a reference but I can't imagine that this level of dryness is normal for pen that sold this much.

 

For reference my pen is "Made in USA" and as such from the original 1954-1957 batch, not a UK or French one. IT seems in pretty good overall condition.

[sodul]

Thanks for the pictures, I really wanted to know which way to turn to unscrew the inner threads and that really helped me.

 

I was able to open the pen with a piece of carpet grip (like srebrown uses) on the section and small needle nose pliers gripping on two of the holes covered with teflon tape. Having the pliers grip on the holes allowed me to have enough grip without applying too much pressure. I was able to clean the feed and underside of the nib better, but I was not able to get the nib out. Since that would not have helped me much I just left it and reassembled the pen, successfully.

 

 

While I feel that the feed probably benefited from the deeper cleaning the nib performance is still horrendous. I can even use it to write on blotting paper without feathering, it is that dry. Reverse writing is a hint less dry somehow, so I'm not sure what's left for me to make this nib wet enough to write without having to apply significant pressure.

 

 

Now that I'm pretty confident that the section and feed are performing properly I have little doubt that the nib needs the tines to be loosen. I just need to find a way to do this safely. Should I disassemble the section and test the nib as if it were a dip pen?

 

PS: The teflon tape is great to cover the holes when you want to use a bulb to clean the pen btw, considering its intent is to prevent leaks, it works perfectly and is very safe for the pen to use. Remove the tape when done cleaning obviously.

[siamackz]

 

Thanks for the pictures, I really wanted to know which way to turn to unscrew the inner threads and that really helped me.

 

I was able to open the pen with a piece of carpet grip (like srebrown uses) on the section and small needle nose pliers gripping on two of the holes covered with teflon tape. Having the pliers grip on the holes allowed me to have enough grip without applying too much pressure. I was able to clean the feed and underside of the nib better, but I was not able to get the nib out. Since that would not have helped me much I just left it and reassembled the pen, successfully.

 

 

While I feel that the feed probably benefited from the deeper cleaning the nib performance is still horrendous. I can even use it to write on blotting paper without feathering, it is that dry. Reverse writing is a hint less dry somehow, so I'm not sure what's left for me to make this nib wet enough to write without having to apply significant pressure.

 

 

Now that I'm pretty confident that the section and feed are performing properly I have little doubt that the nib needs the tines to be loosen. I just need to find a way to do this safely. Should I disassemble the section and test the nib as if it were a dip pen?

 

PS: The teflon tape is great to cover the holes when you want to use a bulb to clean the pen btw, considering its intent is to prevent leaks, it works perfectly and is very safe for the pen to use. Remove the tape when done cleaning obviously.

 

I remember when i disassembled, the nib was stuck with some sort of maybe glue. I took it off. I am not suggesting you do that, but its what I did and now that I have reassembled the pen its fine anyway.

 

Also, you can open the tines without taking the nib off too. Look up some videos. It should be simple enough. You want a brass shim to pass through with a little resistance, not much.

All the best

[sodul]

After more soaking and a few minutes in the sonic bath I was able to get the nib out. I've been attempting to spread the tines every single day for over a week now but the pen is still extremely dry. Applying some pressure makes it write well. I have experimented with sticking a shim to spread the tines while writing and it became a wonderfully wet smooth writer so this pen and nib have potential. I have attempted to manually spread an pull on each side with a 0.005" shim, and leaving the shim in the pen overnight.

 

I've now inserted 2 0.005" shims since in the hope that I will get some result this time. That's a full 0.25mm spread. So far the tip is a lot less tight than it used to be but still a little tight right at the tip.

 

Here are some close up pictures of the tines:

 

I'll try the pen again tomorrow and add an other shim if this is not enough.

[Chrissy]

I found this fascinating. I keep looking at Waterman CF pens on eBay, and one day I might even pull the trigger. One thing that concerns me is the fact that the gold plate near to the nib always seems to be in poor condition. Maybe the chrome plate is better?

[siamackz]

I found this fascinating. I keep looking at Waterman CF pens on eBay, and one day I might even pull the trigger. One thing that concerns me is the fact that the gold plate near to the nib always seems to be in poor condition. Maybe the chrome plate is better?

Youre definitely right about the plating issue, but Pens with minty plating around the nib do come up every now and then.

[PaulS]

a sample of three is vastly less than reliable as a guide to whether it's chrome or gilt coloured section shoulders that survive better - my chrome one has suffered rot (my example shown above), but my gilt coloured example has remained in vgc - the culprit may well be the type of ink that's been used. I know less than nothing about inks, but am aware that some, like the Baystate dyes, should carry a health warning, and perhaps they act on the metalwork and make for disaster, and perhaps the only way to forestall any problems with plating is never to use the pen.

This model exists in a non metallic form - having a section of plastic entirely - so the problem of deterioration can be avoided. The unavoidable side though is that this W. Cf. seems only to be available with nibs like nails, and lack any character when writing.

[Beechwood]

Thats a very good point Paul, the CF seems particularly susceptible to ink quality and to avoid highly saturated inks at all costs.

 

For those whom it may help and exploded diagram of the CF is attached

[siamackz]

The unavoidable side though is that this W. Cf. seems only to be available with nibs like nails, and lack any character when writing.

I can testify to that! I am thinking about grinding it to a stub myself, so that it sees some use

[jekostas]

The unavoidable side though is that this W. Cf. seems only to be available with nibs like nails, and lack any character when writing.

 

This isn't true. There was a factory semi-flex nib available for the CF (and labelled as such), but it is rare.

Edited December 10, 2017 by jekostas

[sodul]

 

This isn't true. There was a factory semi-flex nib available for the CF (and labelled as such), but it is rare.

 

I don't have any other C/F to compare to but mine is semi flex so I might have one of the rare ones but there is nothing mentioning this on the nib or the pen. See a writing sample here:

I apologize for the picture quality I did not have my iPhone right next to me to take a decent shot.

 

The nib is still dry after 24hs of 2x0.005" brass shines between the tines, although the 'click' I heard when I pulled the last shim was not as pronounced, so the tightness has reduced a bit. I'm adding a third 0.005" shim and will check in a few hours.

[jekostas]

Sorry, let me clarify my comment further;

 

Waterman CFs were sold with the nib width denoted with a chalk mark on the barrel. There was a factory semiflex CF sold with the nib width marked as semi-flex on the barrel. They are uncommon, and because the nib widths weren't marked on the nib, it's nearly impossible to tell if you've purchased one unless you can find a NOS pen with the chalk mark still intact or have a chance to try it out.

Edited December 11, 2017 by jekostas