Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Best Archival Quality Ink


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1 IWantThat

IWantThat

    I dream in ink...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Location:Metro Denver, Colorado

Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:53

I'm planning a project for which archival quality ink and paper is very important. Is Noodler's Bulletproof Black the best for this, or are there other better options?
Tamara

Sponsored Content

#2 dcwaites

dcwaites

    DavidW

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,001 posts
  • Location:Campbelltown, NSW, Oz
  • Flag:

Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:32

It depends on what you mean by archival.
I used to work in a museum, and our labels had to last several hundred years, literally. Consequently, we only used carbon-based inks. At that time, all we had available was Rotring Technical Drawing inks and their drawing pens.
Now, I would use Sailor Kiwaguro Nano-Carbon black ink, as it is a carbon ink that is very fountain pen safe.
If you are looking at decades rather than centuries, then any of the Noodler's Eternal or Bulletproof inks should suffice.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.

And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”

Granny Aching


#3 IWantThat

IWantThat

    I dream in ink...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Location:Metro Denver, Colorado

Posted 24 June 2010 - 15:33

I'll definitely check out the Sailor. Thank you :)
Tamara

#4 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 24 June 2010 - 16:47

Hello,

I will certainly endorse the Post of dcwaites.

My personal preference would be for the Montblanc Blue-Black, or it's recent incarnation as 'Midnight Blue'. Right on the box it says 'Permanent - For Documents', so there you go.

For paper, I would use Clairefontaine 'Triomphe' or a paper with rag content.
Rag content papers I've used seem to want a round mono-line nib, and a fairly wet nib+feed.

If you can get by without using an FP, and could consider a dip pen, then the Herbin 'Encre Authentique' is exquisite.
I use it with a Brause 0.5 chisel point that has a reservoir, so I can get a fair bit of writing done before I need to ink-up.
And being an i-g ink, it is excellent for Family Tree stuff, where one wants text labels, needs to fit variable text into a cartouche, and draw tight narrow lines. If you'd like a written sample, please send a PM.

Bye,
Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#5 IWantThat

IWantThat

    I dream in ink...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Location:Metro Denver, Colorado

Posted 24 June 2010 - 17:44

Thank you so much! I was contemplating whether to use my dip pen; it's my F nib option. The paper will be super-important too. I'll send a PM because I would love to see a sample :)
Tamara

#6 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 25 June 2010 - 05:24

Thank you so much! I was contemplating whether to use my dip pen; it's my F nib option. The paper will be super-important too. I'll send a PM because I would love to see a sample :)

Hi,

I sent the stuff. Hope you have broadband up in the mountains!!

I used two FPs with the MBMB: Sheaffer Imperials, one XF nib and one M nib.
The nib+feeds are sufficiently wet to tango with the dry-ish i-g MBMB ink.
In my dreadfully subjective opinions, Sheaffer still makes some of the best narrow nibs, and for not much $, you get a robust classy pen. (Sorry 78G - you'll always be welcome at table; but you snore, so can sleep in the shed. And don't get taken by that she-wolf like that Reform 1745 that was also out there.)

I used three DP nibs with the J Herbin 'Encre Authentique': Brause 0.5mm & 0.75mm chisel-point nibs, and a Speedball 3-tine C5; all with reservoirs.

Each nib was used on 3 different row heights: the XF got 5, 6 & 7mm, all others got 6, 7 & 8mm. The 0.5mm Brause could've likely been used with the 5mm row height, but that's really tiny - not comfortable to read for extended periods. YMMV

As a personal pick, I think all of the nibs look OK on the 7mm row height. (Just ignore my total lack of penmanship.)

I used a 25% rag content paper for all, and was tickled pink that the Sheaffer nibs & feeds could tango with the MBMB on that paper, and the XF nib didn't trip on the textured surface.

The drawn figures start-out counter-clockwise from the centre. And I was happy that the DP nibs had enough 'legs' to complete the figures without running dry.

I must say that I may have gone out of bounds by addressing DPs, so I am reluctant to post the images here. I do not need another 'yellow card' from any Mod.

Bye,
S1

To see if there's any colour-shift in the i-g inks, I plan to scan the swabs daily as they cure.

EDIT - Expletives deleted.

Edited by Sandy1, 25 June 2010 - 07:52.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#7 farseer911

farseer911

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,276 posts
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • Flag:

Posted 25 June 2010 - 05:37

I use Noodlers HOD for most of my long term writing. I am pretty positive it will outlast the paper it is written on.... I have a sign at work with southern exposure that was written with HOD and the paper is full on bleached but the ink is still good to go.

I also use Noodlers Swisher Mix Nile Ebony, these both have held up very well to anything I have thrown at them.
A gentleman is one who puts more into the world than he takes out.

Posted ImagePosted Image

#8 bluemagister

bluemagister

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 855 posts
  • Location:East Gwonklia, Gwonkton

Posted 25 June 2010 - 21:35

Any Noodler's Bulletproof ink will outlast you, the paper and your grandchildren, too. Black, HoD and others are very good. For Carbon inks, you can go with Platinum's or Hero's, but the Kiwaguro is better behaved in more FPs than the others because of the smaller particles.

#9 axe

axe

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

Posted 10 August 2010 - 16:43

Any Noodler's Bulletproof ink will outlast you, the paper and your grandchildren, too. Black, HoD and others are very good. For Carbon inks, you can go with Platinum's or Hero's, but the Kiwaguro is better behaved in more FPs than the others because of the smaller particles.


When you guys talk about waterproof and century lasting inks, are you just specifically talking about "controlled" conditions such as on a bookshelf? I am trying to find a "fraud-proof" ink where you simply cannot get the ink to wash off even with scrubbing or chemicals (or the closest to this as possible for a fountain pen)I realize that you probably cannot get a true "fraud proof" ink in a Fountain Pen, but I really just want the closest to this as possible.

I have the Sailor Nano black ink and it is a nice ink that probably will last on a bookshelf, but no matter how long I let it dry for, if I wet the paper, then wipe the ink, it smears. How do the other "waterproof" inks hold up when you actually try to wipe them off wet? I am not typically exposing pages to water, but its just peace of mind to know that it will in fact outlast.

#10 Northwoods

Northwoods

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 10 August 2010 - 17:14

I am trying to find a "fraud-proof" ink where you simply cannot get the ink to wash off even with scrubbing or chemicals (or the closest to this as possible for a fountain pen)I realize that you probably cannot get a true "fraud proof" ink in a Fountain Pen, but I really just want the closest to this as possible.

You want to be looking into Noodler's "Warden's" line of inks then: Bad Blue Heron, Bad Belted Kingfisher, Bad Green Gator. They're designed such that no known process should be able to remove them without taking the paper with it.

#11 axe

axe

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

Posted 10 August 2010 - 17:33

You want to be looking into Noodler's "Warden's" line of inks then: Bad Blue Heron, Bad Belted Kingfisher, Bad Green Gator. They're designed such that no known process should be able to remove them without taking the paper with it.


Sounds perfect! Thanks for the info, Do you have experience with this ink, I was just dissapointed with the Nano Black when you put water to it and THEN wipe it, it smears. I am hoping that the next ink I get wont smear when it gets wet and wiped. I would have thought that the Nano Black would have stood up to water more than it did.

Thanks again for this info

#12 Flatland2D

Flatland2D

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts
  • Location:Texas Hill Country
  • Flag:

Posted 10 August 2010 - 17:44

Bad belted kingfisher is my daily ink. Be advised that although it's"fraud proof", it still smears when wet. It leaves plenty of ink behind on the paper and the line is still crisp after getting wet, but some of it does wash off. The trade off is that it's laser proof or something like that so it stands up to a wider variety of attacks. Overall I really like the ink and the color is just what I was looking for.
Upward, not Northward!

#13 spinningtrees

spinningtrees

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Location:Kansas City

Posted 10 August 2010 - 17:51

The Bad Belted Kinfisher is my current favorite ink as well! It does smear until fully dry, but the primary letters remain even still. Great ink from a great company!
the pen is the window into the writer's soul
www.spinningtrees.webuda.com

#14 OMASmaniac

OMASmaniac

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Location:At the border of the World :)
  • Flag:

Posted 10 August 2010 - 18:14

My personal preference would be for the Montblanc Blue-Black, or it's recent incarnation as 'Midnight Blue'. Right on the box it says 'Permanent - For Documents', so there you go.



Actually, it's not that permanent... :(

#15 pharmacist

pharmacist

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 10 August 2010 - 18:49

I am not sure where you live, but I made my own iron gall ink optimized for fountain pens. It is based on the german "Urkundentinte" chancery specifications and is the ink de facto for important state treaties and other important documents. It is in fact the ink specified to be the only legal archival ink for writing and signing state treaties. You must however use a wet nib, to get good deep black strokes.

The ink is completely waterproof and unlike the MB midnight blue or Lamy blue-black iron gall, the dye compound does not bleed from the paper, but is fixed inside the ferrogallotannate pigment into the ink stroke after a few days of oxidation.

#16 MJ Vesuvius

MJ Vesuvius

    Dreamer

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 302 posts

Posted 10 August 2010 - 19:23

You want to be looking into Noodler's "Warden's" line of inks then: Bad Blue Heron, Bad Belted Kingfisher, Bad Green Gator. They're designed such that no known process should be able to remove them without taking the paper with it.


Sounds perfect! Thanks for the info, Do you have experience with this ink, I was just dissapointed with the Nano Black when you put water to it and THEN wipe it, it smears. I am hoping that the next ink I get wont smear when it gets wet and wiped. I would have thought that the Nano Black would have stood up to water more than it did.

Thanks again for this info

I have similar concerns about water, and have found two inks that don't smear or run,
and actually look better underwater: Noodler's Heart of Darkness (black) and
Noodle's Bay State Blue (bright blue).

– MJ



#17 ilovepens123

ilovepens123

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 10 August 2010 - 21:07

My new favorite ink that seems to be bulletproof is Noodlers' X Feather. It wont washout evan with ammonia and will probally outlast the paper you wrote on and it is very smooyh. also woks on cheap printer paper. Swishers has it for $11.50 for 3 ounces great buy it only comes in black

#18 sabriel

sabriel

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 10 August 2010 - 22:21

Hi all, very new around here, trying to learn so I can put together a very durable long lasting heirloom journal so I'm researching all the components. From what I've been able to glean so far it sounds like there is a trade off here. No matter the paper quality you still have to also worry about the ink. It sounds like there are two basic types for long term archival purposes: carbon based and the iron gall. From what I understand the carbon based will still come off if exposed to moisture and such and that is the trade off for apparently centuries of fade proofed writing. That's ... not optimal but you just keep stuff out of moisture, locked up, whatever and that should be great. The other option is the iron gall which I understand to be a bit more waterproof than the carbon based but then the issue is that the components of it tend to eat away the paper eventually. For something that you literally want to last for generations that seems like an unlikely solution if you went out of your way to buy really high quality paper.

So. Is that the basics of archival quality ink? It seems like there are a lot of varying opinions about what's best for what and to get back to a fountain pen question as well: what archival quality inks work best in pens and does that vary tremendously from pen to pen?

Thanks for your patience and information while I'm learning!

#19 Northwoods

Northwoods

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 10 August 2010 - 22:34

Be careful not to get hung up on labels. Look at your needs. I have journals that were written 10-15 years ago using basic Levenger inks and they're still as crisp and readable as though I wrote them yesterday. Of course, I don't leave the pages open in direct sunlight for weeks on end nor do I store them under water.

#20 IWantThat

IWantThat

    I dream in ink...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Location:Metro Denver, Colorado

Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:10

Hi all, very new around here, trying to learn so I can put together a very durable long lasting heirloom journal so I'm researching all the components. From what I've been able to glean so far it sounds like there is a trade off here. No matter the paper quality you still have to also worry about the ink. It sounds like there are two basic types for long term archival purposes: carbon based and the iron gall. From what I understand the carbon based will still come off if exposed to moisture and such and that is the trade off for apparently centuries of fade proofed writing. That's ... not optimal but you just keep stuff out of moisture, locked up, whatever and that should be great. The other option is the iron gall which I understand to be a bit more waterproof than the carbon based but then the issue is that the components of it tend to eat away the paper eventually. For something that you literally want to last for generations that seems like an unlikely solution if you went out of your way to buy really high quality paper.

So. Is that the basics of archival quality ink? It seems like there are a lot of varying opinions about what's best for what and to get back to a fountain pen question as well: what archival quality inks work best in pens and does that vary tremendously from pen to pen?

Thanks for your patience and information while I'm learning!


In my catalog of archival materials, there are three ink options:

1) Archival ink, called Black Actinic Ink, light, heat, water resistant and chemically stable so it doesn't absorb impurities - museum-quality stuff. NOTE, however, this ink is NOT safe for fountain pens, but can be used with a dip pen.

2) Pigma pens, available in most art supply shops. They have permanent, pigmented ink that is waterproof, fade-proof and won't discolor. Again, this is not a fountain pen option.

3) Technical pens, such as Koh-I-Noor, designed specifically for architects, engineers, etc. These apparently use India ink, which is also not fountain pen safe, and of course, this is not a fountain pen either.

So, maybe the limitation is with fountain pens and the inks that work in them. Having said that, however, I'm not planning to give up on my fountain pen dreams for my project. I guess it's truly a trade-off - real permanence, or possibly decades-long permanence/longevity if a fountain pen is used. I'm working from a document originally done in pencil in 1932...maybe I should use pencil. Nah, I hate pencils :)
Tamara






Sponsored Content




|