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Parker - Made In China, Taboo Subject?


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#41 nxn96

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 14:39

This is an old thread.

But, does anyone know if the Parker Super 21's were made in USA, or were they made in UK?
thanks!

Well, I do know the Super 21's were made in the US, but don't know if any production came out of the UK. They certainly could have, as Parker was firmly established in the UK long before the Super 21 was introduced. The fact that I've never seen one marked with Made in England doesn't mean there aren't any; just that I haven't seen any. On the other hand, you see various English Duofolds from around that era all the time.

Probably doesn't help you much, but it might get someone more knowledgeable about Super 21's to respond.

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#42 42N8TT

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 16:06

Didn't realize this was an old thread, but enjoyed the commentary. Think I'll just buy pens older than I am and enjoy the quality.

#43 PenFan95

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 18:52

Didn't realize this was an old thread, but enjoyed the commentary. Think I'll just buy pens older than I am and enjoy the quality.


Modern pens are nothing to worry about. They may have fallen in quality, but some companies like Sheaffer are still trying to preserve their heritage, Chinese or not! My Sheaffer nib is Steel, and just like Sheaffer nibs used to be- stiff nibbed workhorses that write smooth and hold up exceptionally well. I don't keep my pen in exactly stellar condition, causing plating loss and dents. However, it writes like a pen should. It writes nicely.
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#44 MisterP

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:16

In case noobody answered before. Yes, Newhaven is now fully closed. There was a gradual transfer of production from Newhaven to Nantes from January to August 2010. The lights were switched off in about September 2010.

#45 ildbig

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:38

Modern pens are nothing to worry about. They may have fallen in quality, but some companies like Sheaffer are still trying to preserve their heritage, Chinese or not! My Sheaffer nib is Steel, and just like Sheaffer nibs used to be- stiff nibbed workhorses that write smooth and hold up exceptionally well. I don't keep my pen in exactly stellar condition, causing plating loss and dents. However, it writes like a pen should. It writes nicely.
[/quote]


I agree that the Chinese can probably make a sufficient quality pen. But isn't part of heritage the tradition, history, and artistry behind the pen? I find it funny to see Sheaffer using pictures of its old Ft. Madison IA factory to sell its pens when they no longer have anything to do with the plant or the people that worked there. All the heritage and tradition was essentially cut off when the people at the plant were no longer involved and instead Bic and a bunch of Chinese took over. The pens may be good quality, in a pure utilitarian sense, but, to me at least, the tradition and heritage is gone.

#46 PenFan95

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:42

Modern pens are nothing to worry about. They may have fallen in quality, but some companies like Sheaffer are still trying to preserve their heritage, Chinese or not! My Sheaffer nib is Steel, and just like Sheaffer nibs used to be- stiff nibbed workhorses that write smooth and hold up exceptionally well. I don't keep my pen in exactly stellar condition, causing plating loss and dents. However, it writes like a pen should. It writes nicely.



I agree that the Chinese can probably make a sufficient quality pen. But isn't part of heritage the tradition, history, and artistry behind the pen? I find it funny to see Sheaffer using pictures of its old Ft. Madison IA factory to sell its pens when they no longer have anything to do with the plant or the people that worked there. All the heritage and tradition was essentially cut off when the people at the plant were no longer involved and instead Bic and a bunch of Chinese took over. The pens may be good quality, in a pure utilitarian sense, but, to me at least, the tradition and heritage is gone.


Well, that's true...but can we do anything? At least the pens are doing their job... and next time, remember to reply by quoting ;)
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#47 ildbig

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:45

Modern pens are nothing to worry about. They may have fallen in quality, but some companies like Sheaffer are still trying to preserve their heritage, Chinese or not! My Sheaffer nib is Steel, and just like Sheaffer nibs used to be- stiff nibbed workhorses that write smooth and hold up exceptionally well. I don't keep my pen in exactly stellar condition, causing plating loss and dents. However, it writes like a pen should. It writes nicely.



I agree that the Chinese can probably make a sufficient quality pen. But isn't part of heritage the tradition, history, and artistry behind the pen? I find it funny to see Sheaffer using pictures of its old Ft. Madison IA factory to sell its pens when they no longer have anything to do with the plant or the people that worked there. All the heritage and tradition was essentially cut off when the people at the plant were no longer involved and instead Bic and a bunch of Chinese took over. The pens may be good quality, in a pure utilitarian sense, but, to me at least, the tradition and heritage is gone.


Well, that's true...but can we do anything? At least the pens are doing their job... and next time, remember to reply by quoting ;)


oops! I'm still a novice at this, I guess :-)

#48 PenFan95

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 13:00

Modern pens are nothing to worry about. They may have fallen in quality, but some companies like Sheaffer are still trying to preserve their heritage, Chinese or not! My Sheaffer nib is Steel, and just like Sheaffer nibs used to be- stiff nibbed workhorses that write smooth and hold up exceptionally well. I don't keep my pen in exactly stellar condition, causing plating loss and dents. However, it writes like a pen should. It writes nicely.



I agree that the Chinese can probably make a sufficient quality pen. But isn't part of heritage the tradition, history, and artistry behind the pen? I find it funny to see Sheaffer using pictures of its old Ft. Madison IA factory to sell its pens when they no longer have anything to do with the plant or the people that worked there. All the heritage and tradition was essentially cut off when the people at the plant were no longer involved and instead Bic and a bunch of Chinese took over. The pens may be good quality, in a pure utilitarian sense, but, to me at least, the tradition and heritage is gone.


Well, that's true...but can we do anything? At least the pens are doing their job... and next time, remember to reply by quoting ;)


oops! I'm still a novice at this, I guess :-)


Don't worry, we all are at one time :)
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#49 streeton

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:59

In this thread by ReverendPen states that the Premium Jotters with the etched/gridded caps are "listed" (my quotes) as being made in China. I'm not sure what "listed" means but it would make sense they are made in China because the IM Premium with etched grid is also made there. So it would appear at least some jotters are being produced in China and somewhat ironically it is the Premium version.

#50 TMA

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:00

I, and I guess one or two others on this board, have enough life experience to remember when what is being said here about Chinese-made goods was being said then about Japanese-made goods. And yet now Sailor, Pilot, Namiki, Honda, Suzuki, Sony, Panasonc and others are some of the most highly regarded names.

And at a time when East German goods were considered to be even lower quality than cheap Chinese goods are now, if you wanted quality optics, you bought from Carl Zeiss Jena, well inside the Iron Curtain.

At one stage, if you wanted a radio receiver of the highest quality, you bought Eddystone, from the UK. Some of the best TVs in the world were made by AWA in Australia. Today you buy from Japan, or Korea.

The quality of goods made by any one country waxes and wanes with market forces and the direction of economic leadership shown in that country. Who'd a thunk that a small Scandinavian country would lead the world in mobile phones?

And, just to annoy many on this board, during the 1950s and 1960s, the quality of American-made goods was regarded as worse than Japanese-made goods, at least in much of the British Commonwealth. Only a few American companies, like Hewlett-Packard, had a world-wide reputation for high-quality.

My prediction is that we will start to see the quality of Chinese-made goods skyrocket, and in a decade or so, what people are now saying about Chinese goods will be being said about Indian-made goods. And in another 20 or so years, India will have a reputation for world-class goods, and we will be saying nasty things about goods from some other nation.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...



(One would hesitate to suggest that some of the comments about Chinese-made goods are being prompted by the concept that because China has a Communist government, then anything it does is immoral. That would be a bigoted and political statement, and therefore banned under the FPN Politeness Convention.)

#51 h_s_shrivastava

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 18:45

Here in India we are saved from Chinese Parkers :bunny01: because here, we make our own Parkers :eureka: :cloud9: These are made by company named Luxor under license from Newell.

#52 bk123

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 07:08

Here in India we are saved from Chinese Parkers :bunny01: because here, we make our own Parkers :eureka: :cloud9: These are made by company named Luxor under license from Newell.

Not entire parker range is made in India by Luxor. Only Parker beta, vector and Jotter are manufactured here. Rest of the range is imported and marketed by Luxor here

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#53 h_s_shrivastava

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:34

As I've posted in another topic, Parker IM Brushed Metal GT fountain pen has no champagne varnish on barrel but its only plain white brushed stainless steel.
Also, all brushed metal Parkers available here are plain white brushed stainless steel.
If these were imported; IM in particular, then these have standard styling as available outside India.

#54 bk123

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:31

As I've posted in another topic, Parker IM Brushed Metal GT fountain pen has no champagne varnish on barrel but its only plain white brushed stainless steel.
Also, all brushed metal Parkers available here are plain white brushed stainless steel.
If these were imported; IM in particular, then these have standard styling as available outside India.

I have no idea about the product finishing. But I'm stating the fact based on the comment received from one of the senior employee(Rakesh Rai) of Luxor who is specially looking after the Parker and Waterman section in Luxor,North India.
If you have complain regarding the material or finishing of the product, I suggest you to contact him at 011-41825555. He is a very good person and I hope he will definitely consider your concern.

Edited by bk123, 27 June 2011 - 09:51.

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#55 moonriver17

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:27

Two recent parker acquisitions have got me thinking about Parker's strategy with its Made in China products. The items I purchased were a Parker Facet FP and a Jotter Premium Stainless Steel Chiseled ballpoint. The Parker Facet is a well finished pen and I like it. What I don't like is there is no "made in .." stampings anywhere on the pen. The Premium Jotter and I stress Premium Jotter is also a nice pen (for a ballpoint) but the finish where the cap meets the barrel is rough with numerous "nicks" around the rim. This pen also lacks a "made in ..." stamping. Gone also is the Parker Logo from the top of the button - some may think that is a good thing. Now I'm guessing that both these pens are MADE IN CHINA - so PARKER why not disclose this on the pens - do you have something to hide? Are you not proud and stand by your product quality? On the basis of the Premium Jotter at least, I suspect that Parker has some way to go before claiming that their China made products are equal to the standard of their established facilities elsewhere - why else would they neglect to put the country of origin on the pens?. Perhaps I'm totally wrong and they are not made in China - thats not my fault either - a lot has to be assumed when trying to analyse the strategies of big corporations.

The pot has been stirred.

I have read FPN numerous times but usually do not reply, so I'm not sure if this is where I reply to the writer above or not. I 100%, totally agree with this Parker user. They picked up from Janesville, WI and took 200/500 jobs out of that town and outsourced their Parker brand pens and they undoubedly do not want to advertise this fact! Sheaffer and Cross did the same thing. None of them put the country of orgin on their pens anymore. If most of us bouught a Sheaffer or a Parker and it said "Made in China" on it, we would be astounded! However, that is likely where it is being made. Right down the same assembly line that makes those cheap Chinese fountain pens. I doubt the Chinese built a new, nice factory, just to make Parker pens in. Parker, Sheaffer and Cross have become a brand, not a company that makes their own pens. They send a set of specifications to China or some other country where labor is cheap and tell them to make X amount of those pens. In their favor, however, I suppose they had to either do that or go out of business completely! I think these other country's that manufacture our goods, cut corners and do not have the same quality control regulations that we have in the USA. Thus, in my humble opinion, you are not getting the same pen as the pen manufactured in their facilities in this country. And yes, I'm sure truth be known, these companies are ashamed of it!

Edited by moonriver17, 22 November 2011 - 12:30.


#56 moonriver17

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:37

I cannot help but notice also, that the savings made from outsourcing pens to China or elsewhere, do not transfer to the consumer. The price of the pens is just as high or higher now than when they made their pens in the USA. The extra dollars saved by having a country with low labor costs, make the pens, goes to the stockholder, I guess! I also guess if I were a stockholder, I wouldn't mind as much! A plastic pen with a small amount of gold electroplate on it, has been priced out of site! Some of these pens that sell for $150, actually are just a plastic mold and some brass or steel with gold electroplate over the metal. The pen seller couldn't have much in material and labor costs in them, when they outsource them to a country that has cheap labor. The markup has to be incredible!

#57 Mike 59

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 14:46

I can only speak for what appears in the UK stationers, but when I am looking at the "wall" of pens, pencils, rollerballs, inks and everything that goes with them, I am always surprised at how large the range there is now, I don't remember it that was this vast when I went to school in the '70's.
I take it as the "default" situation that everything there is made in the far east, unless I can see otherwise.
I don't see that as a mark of good or bad quality, could be anywhere in that range, but the phrase "you get what you pay for" springs to mind. For instance, ten mech pencils for £1 ? How good can they be? Good enough for a couple of weeks? that's good enough maybe.

#58 richardandtracy

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 15:22

In the EU it's a legal requirement that the country of origin is identified somewhere. In the case of my Parker IM and Urban they were absent and Parker were breaking the law.
I reported it to local 'Trading Standards' department, but I got the feeling they had more interesting jobs to do. Like watching paint dry.

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#59 brabus

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 16:14

I have no problems with Chinese made products as long as the quality is still there and a real warranty that the pen manufacturer stands behind. From my experience I bought a Sheaffer prelude made in USA and a prelude made in china and the Chinese made pen WAS lighter in feel BUT it did write a hell of a lot smoother and it didn't have that nib creep problem that the prelude is known to have. Another example involves my Cross classic century, I have both the USA made and China made versions and the USA made one is much much better, it is heftier, the materials used is better and overall feels better. However, for my China made pen the black rubber top at the end of the pen fell off so I sent it to Cross USA and instead of replacing the cap they actually fitted a new rubber top. This is what I mean by having a pen manufacturer stand by their products regardless of where they're made. Much like how others have said give China 20 more years and the made in china stamp won't look as bad as it does today. As for the argument of Chinese made products and USA made products I agree that China made products are nowhere near the quality of USA made.

If moving manufacturing to China means cutting costs and to raise money for a pen manufacturer to survive or improve R&D then I'm all for it, but when those cost cuts are not reinvested into the company and are instead paid out as bonuses to execs then that's a problem.


Thanks
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#60 Florida Blue

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 17:34

I have read FPN numerous times but usually do not reply, so I'm not sure if this is where I reply to the writer above or not. I 100%, totally agree with this Parker user. They picked up from Janesville, WI and took 200/500 jobs out of that town and outsourced their Parker brand pens and they undoubedly do not want to advertise this fact! Sheaffer and Cross did the same thing. None of them put the country of orgin on their pens anymore.


Little of that statement is true. The Parker Jotter, Vector, Sonnet, Premier and Duofold all have a country of origin on the pens. Granted, that is because all of those pens are made in France which has some cache with the consumer versus China.

Parker did not start manufacturing in China until 2008. Currently only the IM, Urban, Jotter Premium and Vector Premium are made in China. All other models including ink cartridges and bottles are made in France.

The Janesville factory hasn't made any pens since 1999 and those jobs were outsourced to England, not China, at Parker's Newhaven factory.

I don't know about the Chinese made pens but Parker still makes their own pens at the Waterman Factory in Nantes, France. I own Chinese, American, French, Canadian and British made Parkers and quality standards are good across the board.

Parker doesn't put country of origin on the Chinese made pens but they do on the package because it is required by US law. The cardboard insert in the plastic blister package will say Made in China.

Edited by Florida Blue, 22 November 2011 - 17:36.

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