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Suggestions for Sid's magic reblackening potion...


antoniosz

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I had bought the magic stuff few weeks ago, but I just had a chance to try it.

So I started practicing with one pen and I have couple of difficulties.

 

First the corner of the top of the barrel. I can not make the potion to stick to it. The film breaks and the edge remains brown.

 

Also the film tends to break if I put too little on the rubber, but if I put a bit more then it runs down the sides.

 

FInally now that the black film has dried I see that I have patches that are not covered. What do I do? Do I apply on more coating?

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

AZ

Edited by antoniosz
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Why not ping Syd and see what advice he has? He's a remarkably friendly fellow. His e-mail address is on his Web site: http://pensburymanor.com/

Elizabeth

When there's nothing to lose and nothing to win

Ain't nothing like a brand new fountain pen

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Have you tried various (but safe) cleaning solutions on the pen Antonios? Your description sounds pretty much like some sort of surface contamination by silicone/oil/greasy matter (perhaps even oils from handling), causing the waterbased solution not to be able to reach the HR surface.

 

Regards

 

Gerry

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Hi Antonios,

 

The first thing that came to mind was oil/grease contmination, just from use, similar to what Gerry suggests.

 

A way to clean it reasonably safely is the following method:

 

1. Moisten a corner of a cotton or paper towel with water and a drop of liquid dishwasher soap. Note: just moisten.

 

2. Rub the part of the pen where the coulurant doesn't want to stick to with the moist part of the just prepared toweling material.

 

3. Next, rub the pen with a dry towel, to remove any moisture.

 

4. Now moisten another piece of toweling material, water only this time, and rub the parts treated with water and liquid soap before. This you do to remove any excess of liquid soap.

 

5. Rub the pen dry again.

 

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5.

 

Now you could try and apply the blackener again. If it still doesn't work, try steps 1 - 6 two (2) more times, and if it still doesn't work, there likely is a problem with the blackener.

 

HTH,

Kind regards,

Wim

the Mad Dutchman
laugh a little, love a little, live a lot; laugh a lot, love a lot, live forever

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Sorry to hear you are running into application issues. There may be 2 problems both of which involve the pen that is being treated.

 

1, First, as mentioned in the instructions, the pen must be cleaned of all oils, slicones, polishes, waxes, etc before application to expose the bare rubber so the material can bond properly. Alcohol or a water/ammonia solution have worked for most everyone that has written me. You should be able to strip the PMBHRPPNo9 from the pen with a 50/50 mix of ammonia and water and start over if you need to. Remember to flush all of the cleaner off of the pen with tap water and let dry thoroughly before trying again. That process alone may clean up the underlying pen material sufficiently to allow for proper penetration and adhesion. Otherwise see #2 below.

 

2. Second the material of the pen being treated needs to really be rubber, and not plastic. I have had a few Salz pens where the black material the pen is made of is not rubber. I (and many other folks) have done pens with flat tops where there is a hard angle between the side of the pen and the top, with no problems reported in the PMBHRPPN09 being repelled. Some early plastics have a slightly oily nature, and they will not take the rubber dye.

 

Yes, you can try additional applications, but my first reaction is that the pen is not really clean, or that the pen is not really rubber. Have you tried it on other hard rubber pens or parts? Have you had a problem with adhesion on those?

 

Syd the Wahlnut

Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein

Pensbury Manor

Vintage Wahl Eversharp Writing Instruments

Pensbury Manor

 

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company

www.wahleversharp.com

New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

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Thanks Syd.

 

It is definitely hard rubber.

Most probably it is my fault... I used Giovanni's Pen Polish to "clean' it.

What I thought, at that time, as "enough" material came of the pen.

But most probably I was not agreessive enough.

I will try again.

 

 

Antonios

Edited by antoniosz
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My guess is that Giovanni's 'Polish' contains some material that is giving you the problem. Not that there's anything at all wrong with the polish, but my guess is that it's like some other combination cleaner/polishes - there's most likely a polishing agent in the mix to create the gloss after the cleaning. Stick with the cleaning *only* solutions - ammonia and water, perhaps even 409, but you do have to have clear access to the HR surface with no contaminants present on the surface.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

 

Gerry

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  • 2 weeks later...

One of the things I *should* have mentioned is that darned silicone grease. While it is wonderful stuff for it's intended purpose, if you get any on a surface you are trying to 'paint' or 'dye', you will have a devil of a time getting uniformity. Hey - if you've ever tried car painting you'll know all about surface preparation and it's importance. <_<

 

Good luck with it Antoniosz.

 

Gerry

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  • 5 months later...

Well, after several tries (cleaning per Wimg, and ammonia solution to remove the potion and reapply) I was never successful. There were always small patches where the potion did not want to stick and the corners were impossible to treat. Similar were my problems with another pen.

Since so many others were successful, I chalked it up to my clumsiness with cleaning and application.

 

Anyway, Giovanni offered to use his method. I got the pen back few days ago and it looks nice and .. black. I will take few pictures to post soon. Here is one of them

 

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/FPN/black.jpg

Edited by antoniosz
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Well, after several tries (cleaning per Wimg, and ammonia solution to remove the potion and reapply) I was never successful. There were always small patches where the potion did not want to stick and the corners were impossible to treat. Similar were my problems with another pen.

Since so many others were successful, I chalked it up to my clumsiness with cleaning and application.

 

Anyway, Giovanni offered to use his method. I got the pen back few days ago and it looks nice and .. black. I will take few pictures to post soon. Here is one of them

 

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/FPN/black.jpg

Thanks, Antonios, for your kind comments.

I wanted to point out that the brownish streak in the middle of the cap in the picture you posted is a light reflection, it is not hard rubber showing through....

Incidentally, I like the fact that your picture shows that there is no obliteration of surface detail with the G-10 process, since we do not deposit any material on top of the hard rubber, but we impregnate the oxidised layer of HR with our special dye.

I was curious to try the G-10 process on your "problem" pen, because I have yet to find a pen that did not accept the G-10 treatment.

http://s26.postimg.org/fp30mhy6x/signature.jpg

In punta di penna.....

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My experience is only with the #9 Potion, as it does serve its purpose for temporary coloration but with limitations, as stated in the originating post to this thread... some heavy discoloration may not always accept coverage. For problem areas I have usually used a second coat but suffer some loss of pen texture.

 

The G-10 appears to be an excellent solution for these problem pens. The picture is a good example.

 

Thanks for the example.

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Reblacking Disclosures

 

I think that, at the very least, these "restorers" should be disclosing the down side to these potions. BHR is worth less treated, period. I really believe the perception of BHR is now negative do to greater use of these products which is reflected in the lack luster prices being paid for BHR.

 

People new to the hobby should be given disclosures as to the downside of reblacking so, at least, they know a little better what they are getting into.

 

Roger W.

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Roger I understand your concern. "Reblacking" has different effects to different "sub"-groups of the pen hobby.

 

I understand that there are implications for collectors.

For me, as a user, I simply do not like the look of discolored black rubber - sorry. I do not care if my pen has a lower or higher value - it is simply a matter of "looks". Users are now a large part of the hobby.

 

Of course a healthy discussion helps everyone to understand the implications. But G-10 or potion #9 are not the first attempts to reblackening. Several repairmen have been offering similar services for a long time.

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Antonio;

 

What you say is true. In fact a large portion of people on the boards are users, much larger than the collector portion IMHO.

 

I know also that repair people and just people experimenting around have tried to reblack pens for decades, however, it is still alchemy. There is very little scientific support for these reblacking agents. None of these potions have long term studies or independent lab data.

 

I think each and every time reblacking comes up it should be made full disclosure for the benefit of new collectors or users that this is a controvesial technique. Restoration techniques that are not reversable are generally considered questionable at best by many in the hobby. Some have even called for a moritorium on these techniques though I don't see this happening any time soon.

 

Presented here is much the same as the money "Wallstreet" - "Greed is good" or "Reblacking is good". I don't think either of these statements are accurate and just need a little clarification.

 

Roger W.

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There is very little scientific support for these reblacking agents. None of these potions have long term studies or independent lab data.

Actually, extensive testing has been carried out, including accelerated aging and extreme temperature and UV exposure tests. Believe me, I would not want to have to compensate for the loss of hundreds of HR pens because of some hidden negative effect caused by my G-10 process. I tried many different formulations before settling on my tenth formula (the G-10).

Oxidised HR is decaying hard rubber. Left alone, it won't get any better, in fact the oxidised layer will grow thicker, the surface will become brittle and the pen will eventually crumble. So these are the pens we are treating; cosmetically, yes, but with the improved appearance there are also other advantages. The new upper surface is now imbibed with an effective UV barrier, thus slowing down further degradation. We usually coat the restored pen with a carnauba wax product that offers some protection from further oxidisation.

In my opinion, a pen restored with G-10 will last longer and look better than an unrestored pen.

As I mentioned in a previous post, customers are advised of the non-reversible character of the G-10 treatment and of possible implications on the value of the restored pen (but, in truth, a Waterman 52 and other common user pens are worth more restored than in the green/brown state of oxidised pens).

Nobody is being forced to reblacken his/her pens! It is a free market in a free society and most of the pens I restored were bought for 10-20 bucks, hardly a huge capital investment.

Peace!

Giovanni

http://s26.postimg.org/fp30mhy6x/signature.jpg

In punta di penna.....

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Giovani;

 

People aren't being forced to reblacken their pens but, they are not provided with full disclosure of the implications of doing so either. People deserve to know what impact this will have on the value and the collectability of the pen especially in light of your product being non-reversable. I have a feeling that this is not just being used on pens that have limited collector importance but, some misguided owners are having your product used on important BHR to their detriment and the detriment of the collecting community as a whole.

 

Roger W.

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