Information On the Stipula 22

[TheNobleSavage]

Just curious about the Stipula 22. It looks like it is an interesting pen with nice features but information on the web is rather scarce. I know that they have stopped making this pen recently. I am wondering if it is worth buying for under 120.00. What things have you experienced and what specific things have you heard. Thanks

 

TNS

[Maja]

Hi TNS,

 

Well, I don't own one myself but I've read (in Stylophiles online magazine) that the Stipula 22 has a flexible titanium nib...From what I recall reading online (from other sources), however, the pen can be, well, erm problematic.

Here is FPN's own einv's review of the Stipula 22 on his website. See for yourself

To his eternal credit, Viv (einv) does offer methods on how to correct some of the problems here)

Edited March 12, 2005 by Maja

[TheNobleSavage]

Hi TNS,

 

Um....well, I don't own one myself but I've read (in Stylophiles online magazine) that it has a titanium nib that is flexible...From what I recall reading online from other sources, the pen can be, well, erm problematic.

Here is FPN's einv's einv's review of the Stipula 22 on his website. See for yourself (to einv's credit, he does offer methods on how to correct some of the problems here) Thanks, Viv!

WOW!!! Thanks for the info. You would of though they would of made an attempt of a recall to fix the problem. What a shame!! It really is a very pretty pen. I hope people can send me in some more reviews just to see what else people are taliking about!!! Thanks Maja!!!

[Maja]

You're welcome, NS...Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Maybe not every one of them was a lemon, but I think there was some kind of problem in many pens....As I said before, I don't own one; all I know is what I've read

(mind you, I was forewarned about buying a Levenger "True Writer" pen, but I bought one anyway...It only cost me $20 + shipping, though...)

[TheNobleSavage]

You're welcome, NS...Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Maybe not every one of them was a lemon, but I think there was some kind of problem in many pens....As I said before, I don't own one; all I know is what I've read

(mind you, I was forewarned about buying a Levenger "True Writer" pen, but I bought one anyway...It only cost me $20 + shipping, though...)

unfortunately this is about 4 times the cost of your True Writer!! I dont think I want to gamble on this one unless it is used and has been fine tuned!! I also heard that Stipula lost their North American Distributor. I dont know if this is a fact or not.

[wimg]

Hi NS,

 

The Stip 22 has been a problematic pen mostly because of its plastic feed. But not all 22s suffer from this problem. And the titanium nib is flexible, but only because the material is so flexible. You can't compare it to a true flexible vintage nib.

 

You may actually want to have a look at one of the Swisher's specials on Etrurias. Those are generally very, very nice pens. Just replace the Stip converter (if it is a c/c pen) with a Pelikan international converter (it fits), and ink flow is perfect. Just in case you get a problem nib, they are easily exchangeable (screw-out, a la Pelikan).

 

Stips are great pens when you have a working one, and it looks like the cheaper models in the range, like the 22, the chance of getting a problematic one is a little higher than you would expect. But, when you get a working one, you're in pen heaven . Great writers, great nibs. I have 4 Etrurias now, and a Saturno, and an extra nib, and they all write fabulously. I am particularly charmed by the italic nibs, they are really wonderful.

 

Their nibs are very springy, which gives it a wonderful writing experience. IMO, modern Omas nibs are overrated: they seem to have a reputation for springyness, but I haven't noticed that so far. Compared to the Etruria (and Novecento and Saturno. IOW, the big size) nibs, they are nails.

 

Regarding the North American Distributor: they haven't had one for a while. Luxury Brands has only been doing the honours, so to speak, they aren't and haven't been, at least not for the last few years, the distributor either.

 

Oh, the 22s are on closeout at Giardino Italiano, AFAIK, but only available in one colour.

 

Kind regards,

Wim

[Titivillus]

Hi NS,

And the titanium nib is flexible, but only because the material is so flexible. You can't compare it to a true flexible vintage nib.

 

...

Kind regards,

Wim

 

Wim,

what the heck does it mean that the pen has a flexible nib but not a true vintage flex! If the nib material responds to pressure and changes the line width than it is a flexible nib. The whole vintage flex snobbery is really amazing to me. I've got modern steel copperplate nibs that can change ten fold but that just is overkill.

 

I wonder if someone who has both a Stipula 22 and a vintage waterman could use the same ink and on the same page put both through their paces and scan it in.

 

 

 

 

:bonk:

[Keith with a capital K]

A note on flex:

 

A nib is defined as being flexible when subtle increases in writing pressure cause the tines to move apart and widen the line that the pen is putting down.

 

Most nibs will flex under sufficient pressure but in this circumstance, some nibs will become sprung and do not have the ability to return to their normal shape.

 

I measure flex by how much the line can vary under normal writing conditions.

 

If we define the number 1 as being the line produced when the pen is under little to no pressure then variances in line caused by pressure can be measured.

 

If a nib can write between 1 and 2 times it's base, I'd consider it soft or springy but not really flexible. There might be a hint of variation but generally, the nib will just feel nice on paper.

 

If a nib can write from 1 to 3 times it's base width then I would consider it to be semi flexible.

 

If a nib can write from 1 to 5 times it's base width I would call it flexible.

 

Pens that can write from 1 to 7 times their base width are what we call super flexible nibs, wet noodles, or uber flexy nibs.

 

A flexible nib neds to be able to flex easily without undue pressure and return to it's base when the pressure is released.

 

Really good vintage flex nibs will respond at the lightest touch and do not require much change in writing pressure to create results.

 

Most modern "flex" nibs are semi flexible and require more to get them to respond... if you have ever handled a true vintage flex nib you would understand what I am speaking of. The ease at which one can create variation is delightful.

[antoniosz]

Stipula needs at 300-400 gram force to do this. This is the very low side of semiflex for me. The W5 does this with ~250 gram force. This is comfortable flex.

You can get half of the width variation and still get a pleasent copperplate like effect. Most of the modern flex pens that I have tried are semiflex (Pelikan 1000, Omas Articula, Falcon, etc.) at best. I have not tried the modern Omas or Dani Trio flex. I am not saying that the modern pens are bad. The Omas articula has been in my rotation for few weeks now. Soft nibs (like Sonnet's), semiflex, flex all of them have their place in my rotation...

 

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/azavalia/FPN/junk.jpg

 

By the way my Stipula is a nice wet writer when I do not press.

If I press accidentally - then the line breaks and the pen starts skipping.

This means that the feeds is simply not capable of following the demand for ink when flexing. It is not enough to have a flexible nob you have to have a good feed that can follow the demand.

 

Also the "utlimate flex experience" requires that there is a fast return from a think line to a thin line. I have used good vintage flex nibs that had this characteristic and some that they were not so good at this. Seethis post for details (item © )

Edited March 12, 2005 by antoniosz

[Keith with a capital K]

Antonios...you are such a geek.

 

Thanks!

 

You can also see that the feed in the Stipula cannot maintain a steady supply of ink to the nib whereas the feed in the Waterman 5 is designed to provide a steady flow.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Keith with a capital K

[antoniosz]

G®eek and proud of it, Keith

 

I do understand, however, Kurt's furstration. There is a number of people that "praise" vintage over modern pens without explaining what exactly they mean. Many times they are correct and their opinion stems from their experience but they can not articulate it. Some times they have almost a misionary zeal against modern pens, and as a result they turn off those of us who enjoy modern pens.

Edited March 12, 2005 by antoniosz

[Bryan]

Hi NS,

....

 

Just replace the Stip converter (if it is a c/c pen) with a Pelikan international converter (it fits), and ink flow is perfect. Just in case you get a problem nib, they are easily exchangeable (screw-out, a la Pelikan).

 

....

 

Kind regards,

Wim

Hello Wim,

 

I've had my Stipula Etruria for a couple of years now, and have had to use a cartridge because the converter hasn't allowed for good flow. Does the Pelikan converter you talk about fit in the Etruria the same way as the stipula, allowing you to fill from a bottle without separating the nib from the barrel. (I hope that makes sense. I just I'm just asking if the pelikan and stipula converters are same size and interchangeable.)

 

Thanks

 

Bryan

Edited March 12, 2005 by Bryan

[Titivillus]

Stipula needs at  300-400 gram force to do this.  This is the very low side of semiflex for me.  The W5 does this with ~250 gram force. This is comfortable flex.

Also the "utlimate flex experience" requires that there is a fast return from a think line to a thin line.  I have used good vintage flex nibs that had this characteristic and some that they were not so good at this.  Seethis post for details (item © )

 

 

If I could upload a pic I'd show my new Dani-trio fine FLEXIBLE nibs. Very little pressure and I an get at least what the Waterman did in the previous post.

 

So don't discount all modern nibs as soft there are some out there that are flexible. Even according to the Keith rules of flex. Come to think of it not all vintage pens are flexible as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Kurt H

Edited March 13, 2005 by Tytyvyllus

[Maja]

Wim, thanks for pointing out that not all Stip 22's have a feed problem; I guess the only problem with ordering one online is that you can't tell until you try it...

 

Keith, thanks for explaning the different definitions of nib flexibility; I've heard terms like "soft nibs", "springy nibs", etc. bandied about, but wasn't 100% sure what they meant...until now!

 

Antonios, thank you for clarifying (and quantifying :blink: ) nib flexiness for us; your pictures and diagrams are extremely helpful!

Thanks, gentlemen!

 

Kurt, nice to see you back; please stick around

Edited March 12, 2005 by Maja

[wimg]

Hi Bryan,

 

I've had my Stipula Etruria for a couple of years now, and have had to use a cartridge because the converter hasn't allowed for good flow. Does the Pelikan converter you talk about fit in the Etruria the same way as the stipula, allowing you to fill from a bottle without separating the nib from the barrel. (I hope that makes sense. I just I'm just asking if the pelikan and stipula converters are same size and interchangeable.)

I am talking here about the international size converter that Stipula puts in its boxes for c/c Etruria and other c/c pens, and for Etrurias that use both c/c and the very big piston converter. As this converter (the small transparant piston converter) is an international size one, you can exchange it with any other internatioanl friction fit converters, like the Pelikan one.

 

The Stipula c/c converter suffers from SID (Sticky Ink Syndrome), and no matter how much liquid soap you put in your soapy solution to try and fix this, the ink just sits there, at the wrong end of the converter, and won't budge , hence the flow problems.

 

My experiences with a zillion (ok, a few less, ) brands and models of international converters, have proven to me that the Pelikan one is best, and happens to have the largest payload too.

 

You will have to separate the section from the barrel, though, to use it, but that is also true for an Etruria that is both c/c and big piston filler converter when using its international size converter. Only with the big converter you don't have to separate the barrel from the section, as the top part fits nicely into the turing knob at the top of the barrel, and allows for external operation of the thing.

 

If you actually mean you have problems with the big piston filler, just rinse and flush it with a soapy solution. And maybe write 1 or 2 payloads with it using a good, well flowing ink, like Waterman Blue Black, Florida Blue, or so. After that, any ink should work, IME.

 

HTH,

Kind regards,

Wim, Mad Dutchman and Etruria Enthusiast

[Leslie J.]

So Wim, what do you think of the Stipula Alinari? After reading about it in Stylus, and seeing it on the cover daily, I feel it drawing me in. Titanium nibbed again though. I know nothing of which feed it would have, or the converter. Sure is pretty though.

[wimg]

Hi Kurt,

 

Wim,

what the heck does it mean that the pen has a flexible nib but not a true vintage flex! If the nib material responds to pressure and changes the line width than it is a flexible nib. The whole vintage flex snobbery is really amazing to me. I've got modern steel copperplate nibs that can change ten fold but that just is overkill.

Something that Antonios and Richard B have pointed out in other discussions, modern flex nibs are springy most of the time. Ok, there may be a few exceptions, like the new Danitrio nib (of which I have no experience).

 

Springiness causes nibs to move away from the feed, upwards, and spread tines exactly because the nib is forced to curve upwards, when exerting a relatively large amount of pressure. Flexiness causes tines to spread outwards straight away, which is a different concept.

 

I assume that if you're talking about copperplate steel nibs, you are talking about dip pens, not fountain pens. Of course I stand to be corrected .

 

Kind regards,

Wim

Edited March 13, 2005 by wimg

[Bryan]

Hi Bryan,

 

.....

 

If you actually mean you have problems with the big piston filler, just rinse and flush it with a soapy solution. And maybe write 1 or 2 payloads with it using a good, well flowing ink, like Waterman Blue Black, Florida Blue, or so. After that, any ink should work, IME.

 

HTH,

Kind regards,

Wim, Mad Dutchman and Etruria Enthusiast

Thanks Wim,

 

I do have the Big converter. I just finished cleaning it out. I actually took the whole darn thing apart and gave it a thorough cleaning and re-greased the piston. Man, it was a totally mess, no wonder it had no flow. I filled it with PR Tanzanite, that the best flowing ink I have. So far so good. I must have let the ink dry out in it right after I purchased it, this way one of my first pens.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bryan

[Titivillus]

A note on flex:

 

A nib is defined as being flexible when subtle increases in writing pressure cause the tines to move apart and widen the line that the pen is putting down.

 

Most nibs will flex under sufficient pressure but in this circumstance, some nibs will become sprung and do not have the ability to return to their normal shape.

 

I measure flex by how much the line can vary under normal writing conditions.

 

If we define the number 1 as being the line produced when the pen is under little to no pressure then variances in line caused by pressure can be measured.

 

If a nib can write between 1 and 2 times it's base, I'd consider it soft or springy but not really flexible. There might be a hint of variation but generally, the nib will just feel nice on paper.

 

If a nib can write from 1 to 3 times it's base width then I would consider it to be semi flexible.

 

If a nib can write from 1 to 5 times it's base width I would call it flexible.

 

Pens that can write from 1 to 7 times their base width are what we call super flexible nibs, wet noodles, or uber flexy nibs.

 

A flexible nib neds to be able to flex easily without undue pressure and return to it's base when the pressure is released.

 

Really good vintage flex nibs will respond at the lightest touch and do not require much change in writing pressure to create results.

 

Most modern "flex" nibs are semi flexible and require more to get them to respond... if you have ever handled a true vintage flex nib you would understand what I am speaking of. The ease at which one can create variation is delightful.

A nib is defined as being flexible when subtle increases in writing pressure cause the tines to move apart and widen the line that the pen is putting down.

 

Yep I have several modern pens that fit into this catagory.

 

 

Most nibs will flex under sufficient pressure but in this circumstance, some nibs will become sprung and do not have the ability to return to their normal shape.

 

This is true but you really have to abuse a pen to spring it's nib this goes beyound trying to coax out a line variation

 

I measure flex by how much the line can vary under normal writing conditions.

.....

 

If a nib can write from 1 to 5 times it's base width I would call it flexible.

 

I have used a few modern pens that fit this categoy as well. Most especially the new Dani trio nibs.

 

 

Pens that can write from 1 to 7 times their base width are what we call super flexible nibs, wet noodles, or uber flexy nibs.

 

Most modern "flex" nibs are semi flexible and require more to get them to respond... if you have ever handled a true vintage flex nib you would understand what I am speaking of. The ease at which one can create variation is delightful.

 

I hate to say it but the two vintage pens that I owned that were 'uber flexy' with nearly useless for normal writing. So if I just don't understand all the fuss about vintage flex and why modern pens are considered lower than dirt in this respect, that may be why.

[Keith with a capital K]

I have rarely had a pen returned for any reason and one of the cases was concerning a nib that was just too flexible for it's potential owner.

 

I can see that uber flexy nibs are not for everyone and even I prefer semi to normal flex nibs over uber flexy nibs (in most cases).

 

So with that being said...

 

We just don't see too many modern pens as having truly flexible nibs although there are exceptions. After seeing the exemplar written with the Dani Trio nib I would rate it as flexible although without having one in my hand and making a direct comparison to a vintage nib, I cannot say how much pressure is required to creat the line variation.

 

With vintage nibs, it can often be more of a case of concentrating NOT to apply undue pressure while with a modern pen, one has to concentrate on how much pressure is applied.

 

A truly flexible nib requires a light touch as the smallest change in pressure will cause the nib to flex.

 

I don't think modern pens are "lower than dirt" but after having handled many many pens I can say that finding a modern pen with a true flex nib is not a common occurrence while with some vintage pens like pre 1940 Waterman's, finding rigid nibs is more of an anomaly.

 

I think we're on the same page here.

 

I have suggested that people look at some of the modern Sheaffer's like the Balance and Selangor as they can often have some extremely nice nibs that are often semi flexible and even flexible.

 

The fuss about flex nibs is because many people like using them and finding them in modern pens can be a challenge and sometimes require deeper pockets.

 

Finding a pen like a Waterman 52 in bchr or Eversharp Skyline isn't hard and these pens can often be found with true flex nibs at a very reasonable cost. I could give a long list of vintage pens that are known for having flexible nibs and this list would dwarf my list of modern pens that possess the same type of nibs.

 

It's a case of nib makers not making nibs like they used to so if you want a real flex nib, your odds of finding one will be higher if you look at vintage or "old" pens.