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How much does a gold nib weigh?


39 replies to this topic

#21 ANM

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 20:13

I just weighed an OS Sheaffer flat top nib. It does weigh a gram. Good luck finding one for $5.00 or even $10.00 though.:) It would be really really sad to melt one down for gold content. They are worth at least three or four times as much as a nib..

Edited by ANM, 16 March 2010 - 20:22.

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#22 fabiorr

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 20:19

Vintage nib gold scrapping is not a tolerated hobby here at FPN, you're warned......Is as melting the crowns of the Visigoth Kings or the gold Spanish doubloons...or close to it.


Totally agree! When I see one of these nibs, even if the pen is broken and sold for a low price, I think of trying to put it back to working shape or fit it in another body.

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#23 auscollector

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 22:25

Folks
Thanks for responding. You malign me unjustly. I wanted to make sure gold price was not a reason to rip me off when replacing my nibs.

#24 txinsk

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 23:31

Folks
Thanks for responding. You malign me unjustly. I wanted to make sure gold price was not a reason to rip me off when replacing my nibs.


Malign you unjustly? You are asking a question about whether a pen is better sold as scrap. Looking at the post it was not your pen, but all some of us did was point out the reality of the situation. Take the education, its free and there is nothing malicious in it. The others are merely poking fun, take them with a grain of salt.

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#25 Powerbroker

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 23:44

Without getting too involved, nibs are small, medium and large. On average they weigh 0.25, 0.5 and 0.7 grams. That's 14k gold, not pure gold. 58% of 0.5g @ $1122 per ounce is about $10.

Most gold nibs AS NIBS, are worth more than their scrap gold value.



edited to add a decimal poing


What is a "decimal poing"?

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#26 Doc H

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 00:46

Now the .00007g "Unobtainium" TIP, however, that's another whole kettle o' fish....Posted Image Could be worth zillions on the planet Remular....
"And gentlemen in England, now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day."

#27 psfred

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:26

No dice. The pen is with nib is worth much more than the scrap price of the nib, just look on eBay for a while. A decent nib for a "51" goes for 25 to 40 dollars, usually, as opposed to the $18 or so estimated scrap price. A decent Waterman's celluloid with flex nib will run you $30 and up in rotten shape, $50 and up restored and writing.

Sheaffer Snorkels with Triumph nibs (these are probably the heaviest ones around) in restored condition is more likely to run $80 or so -- for a scrap value of $25 or so.

Less desirable pens (Wearevers, nameless stuff from the 40's and 50's) very rarely have gold nibs, and the pens from WWII with gold ones tend to have small nibs, so even less "scrap" value.

A little more effort to sell the entire pen will result in more $ in your pocket, especially as the pens sans nib are unlikely to sell at all. I remember a ground of 12 Waterman's celluloid pens, all quite lovely and in good shape but with the nibs yanked showing up time after time and not selling, even at $2 each. No reason to buy a pen that cannot be used, eh?


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#28 shadowsforbars

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:48

I guess this is why we have gold members.

#29 Johnny Appleseed

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 17:00

I hate to say it, but all of the equations that find a nib to be worth more than it's scrap value are based on a nib in good condition. While many nibs are still worth more than their scrap value if they are damaged (some uncommon nibs may be worth hundreds of dollars even if they need a retip), most common nibs with a significant crack or lost tipping are essentially worthless. A Sheaffer Feathertouch 5 nib or Waterman #2 nib will rarely fetch more than $35-40. Retipping costs a minimum of $40, often much more. The cost of retipping is more than many common nibs are worth, and thus they are worth more as scrap value than as nibs.

Me, I am hanging on to my FT5 and Waterman #2 nibs that need a retip, as eventually it will be worth getting it done. But I do that because of my love of vintage pens, not because of the economics. There is a limited supply of vintage nibs out there, and we should do everything we can to preserve them. But I don't think we can pretend that all damaged vintage nibs are worth more than their scrap value.

And note I refer here to damaged vintage nibs. A damaged pen with a good nib is usually worth more than the scrap value (though a damaged pen with a good nib generally fetches less in places like Ebay than a good nib alone - something to remember when sourcing nibs).

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#30 curioustrifles

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 22:11

The problem I see is everyone so far is looking at it from the point of view of a pen collector, as I am just a junk dealer. I purchased two boxes of offices supplies from a local auction for $15, and in one of the boxes was a lot of vintage office items, including 3 Sheaffer pens with nibs marked 14k. Yes, I know they are worth more than scrap, but what if you could get them at below scrap value, I am thinking around no more than $5 each. This way if they were worth $20-25 a piece, a person could make guaranteed money fast, unfortunately a good nib or pen with a nib may take years to sell.

In all I have eleven items worth selling that only cost $15 or about $1.37 per item, which makes selling the nibs for scrap tempting, especially if I didn't know that they were worth more as pens, or in this case Pen & Base Sets.

I do appreciate the estimated weight of the nibs, and all the experts and their information on this thread.

Thank You.
Richard

#31 Tom Aquinas

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 23:53

Vintage nib gold scrapping is not a tolerated hobby here at FPN, you're warned......Is as melting the crowns of the Visigoth Kings or the gold Spanish doubloons...or close to it.

In the late 1960s Parker made caps and barrels for a limited edition Parker 75 from melted down Spanish silver coins salvaged from a treasure ship.

Edited by Tom Aquinas, 26 August 2012 - 23:53.


#32 mtraug11

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:18

So with all this info about the price of gold, what justifies the high cost differential in a gold vs stainless steel nib on the same pen? Sometimes upward of over $100 more for a gold nib when the only difference in a pen is the nib. I am talking modern pens. Seems like a high markup unless the gold nib is more costly to manufacture, etc. Not judging, just asking. I have been asked before and didn't have a good answer.

#33 ANM

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:46

A pen with a gold nib or a gold ring, or a gold anything is going to cost more for the item than the melt down price. If it didn't, no one would spend the time to make it. If I made rings out of gold for a living and sold it raw material cost, I'd go broke. Gold cost more per weight than stainless steel.

Edited by ANM, 27 August 2012 - 03:48.

And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time. TS Eliot

#34 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 07:58

When you melt down gold you have to pay for the melt down, in the gold is divided out in 333, 585 and 750. Some one puts his mark on your tiny little bitty gold 'bar', saying yep....14 K.

I'd expect you to be able to get a six pack of beer for a nib, if you got enough nibs to make it worth while to melt down.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#35 tmcneil82

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:52

I was thinking about this the other week when I came across a box of pens at a flea market that had all of their nibs removed. If only there was a way to get a website out there with enough exposure to offer people better prices for their "junk" nibs.

I don't even want to think about how many large and rare nibs have met the meltdown fate.

#36 rizo

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 21:41

It often happens that the "14K" becomes a justification for a higher price. Not always, but often. I have come across gold-nibbed pens that cost less than $5.00, but that's usually because they are Parker 51s, are not marked for gold content, or they have something seriously wrong with them.

Some Sheaffer Lifetime nibs might weigh more than 1g. They are quite thick.

I would like to know the weigh of the nib of a Parker 51?



#37 phaus

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 04:46

Let's not knee-jerk this thing, but apply the numbers. A 0.9g pen point is, in scrap, worth $30? Probably less, as it's 14k (58.5% Au, the remainded being, I believe, copper, bee parts and wiener flavour), but we'll leave that. Anyone selling a point as a point, taking into account relative scarcity and the fact that it's not just a fragment of gold but a carefully worked artifact, will be looking at rather more than $30-- A quick look at the handy value chart on Jim Mottishaw's site shows with a few exceptions a low-end of $40 and highs in excess $200, all of which is I suspect not right up to date. It's worth more as the thing it is than it is reduced to its elemental nature.

You are correct, he doesn't keep it up to date. Some of the rarer nibs he lists are easily worth 2-3x as much these days.



#38 inkstainedruth

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 20:37

I've run across a few pens without nibs in antiques stores in my travels.  It's really kind of sad.  I'd rather weigh the pros and cons of buying a pen with a borked nib and paying to get it repaired (although the one time I did, on a Azure Blue Pearl Vac Major a year or so back, by the time I factored in repairs/replacement and went back to the store to haggle the price down, it was gone).  I definitely don't buy pens where the nib has been "salvaged", though.  

Reading through this thread, I considered how little gold one would get out of a 14K Parker 45 nib if it were melted down.  Definitely not worth it for the "gold value"-- those nibs are TINY....  OTOTH, I'm not entirely sure they'd be worth the cost of fixing, either, after getting a pen on Ebay last year where the tipping was more or less missing from one tine (should have asked for better pix from the seller).  A replacement nib more or less doubled the price I paid for the pen to start with....

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#39 Drone

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:38

A pen with a gold nib or a gold ring, or a gold anything is going to cost more for the item than the melt down price. If it didn't, no one would spend the time to make it. If I made rings out of gold for a living and sold it raw material cost, I'd go broke. Gold cost more per weight than stainless steel.

 

The quantities of gold nibs manufactured by the likes of Bock or Jowo are high enough to consider them a commodity item, not a hand-made piece of Jewellery. Gold alloy is purchased in quantities sufficient to put the pure gold content close to spot prices. Nearly 100% of the material left over after the manufacture of a gold alloy nib is recycled in-house and at low cost. The machines and tooling used to make the steel nibs are most likely the same machines and tools used to make the gold alloy nibs. If there are any differences in tooling or setup, they are going to be minor.

 

Using Fermi estimation: Given the material difference cost for a #6 steel vs. #6 (~0.7g) 14K (58.5%) gold alloy nib runs roughly $15 at current gold spot prices (~$1,200 USD/troy oz.), a typical retail difference of $150 for a gold alloy vs. steel nib amounts to around a 1,000% mark-up. This is incurred at one or more points along the way from manufacturer to retailer. I think this mark-up is outrageous - even at half the amount.


Edited by Drone, 21 February 2016 - 10:48.


#40 Drone

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:39

Oops, I made a dupe - Mod please delete, sorry :mellow:


Edited by Drone, 21 February 2016 - 10:50.




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