Shoddy Work by Big Names

[kirchh]

See folks, you are not allowed to have opinions where "fanboys" are concerned.

 

Sure you can - so long as you agree with the fanbois. You can agree, or you can be wrong.

 

And that, honestly, is why I think the posting of personal experiences, be they just super-duper A++ totally utterly 110% positive, sunk in a choppy sea of darkest despair and life-negating misery negative, or somewhere in between, is a bad idea. Most of us aren't actively seeking confrontation here, and are somewhat reluctant to disagree with the crowd and the prevailing "wisdom" / groupthink here. Hence self-censorship, and a propensity to stifle expressions of personal opinion which differ from that of others in lieu of basically affirmatory bumpf. "Gee, Brain, everybody said the Acme Writemaster 3200 was a great pen; at first I thought it was heavy, ill-balanced, ugly, scratchy, and had poor ink flow, but now I realize that I just didn't know any better, narf!"

 

As soon as you stray from the factual into the realm of personal experience and opinion, you're going to have disagreement. That's a fact of life. Unfortunately, some people - here and of course elsewhere - are incapable of differentiating fact from opinion. ("The Acme Writemaster 3200 suits my personal preferences" - fact, albeit one nobody really cares about. "The Acme Writemaster 3200 is teh best sub-$700 pen in teh world, evar!!11" - opinion, albeit one most are unwilling to publicly disagree with, being mild-mannered sheeple and all that jazz.) There's a term for this sort of person: "Fanboy". And, honestly, anyone who doesn't see that this forum is full of egotistic fanbois who not only cannot tolerate disagreement but see it as a personal affront... is probably a fanboy themselves.

In other words, one can agree with you, or be wrong.

 

Pot, kettle, all that.

 

Back to contructive thoughts on how to improve information flow, yes?

 

--Daniel

[Ghost Plane]

Anyone else awed that this many pages of venting have boiled out?

[ethernautrix]

Anyone else awed that this many pages of venting have boiled out?

 

Well, to be fair, there were spiders....

 

 

P.S. As per my settings, "only" 16. Hee.

Edited February 6, 2010 by ethernautrix

[eric47]

Anyone else awed that this many pages of venting have boiled out?

 

Well, to be fair, there were spiders....

 

And if someone hoses your pen, it's just a object that can often be fixed or repaired (by someone else if need be), unlike the spider.

Edited February 6, 2010 by eric47

[Stylo]

The beauty of the forums I'm describing is that the "accuser" and "accused" can each post their positons on the matter, with a moderator to keep it from becoming a flame war.

Do you actually expect the nib pros to come to this forum and argue back and forth with every customer that has posted a complaint? I don't think any of them would engage in what would be a losing proposition for them. The most they will accomplish is to diffuse a complaint into a "he said she said" situation, at the expense of time and energy that is not worth it. It's a lose lose game for them, and that is why you seldom see them respond to any accusations made on this and other websites.

[Stylo]

On a lighter note, it is kind of funny to see some of the "constitutional big words" thrown around here, such as "freedom of speech", "censorship", etc., but "the right to face you accuser" seems to be a big word of the undesirable kind

Actually, no. Several people have mentioned that "criticism via PM" combines all the worse attributes, and doesn't give the vendors an opportunity to see and respond to the criticism.

I was referring to those posters who didn't want their names to be made public when trashing a service provider. They want freedom of speech, but they want to deny the accused the right to face them, i.e., they want to accuse anonymously.

[Stylo]

Here is more food for thought. It has been mentioned many times that when someone gives a nasty review of one of the "pillars", a bunch of "fanboys" jump on him. How do we interpret that? Do we conclude that all those people have received great service from pillar X and that this negative experience is a fluke? Do we conclude that these fans are acting blindly like cult followers? Do we suspect that they are trying to gain favors from pillar X, some extra TLC for their nibs? Frankly, I have seen all these interpretations So which one would you make?

[Scylla]

LIST OWNER/MODERATORS: I propose a forum, similar to the one found here:

 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=7

 

How about it? Can we put it under consideration?

[eric.zamir]

There are two threads that are dominating this Writing Instruments forum of late: Has Anyone Heard of Henry Simpole; and this Shoddy Work by Big Names.

 

I've got no problem with the Henry Simpole thread but this thread is taking away from the usually enjoyable discussion about "Writing Instruments". I'd much rather read and participate in discussions about fountain pens than about the quality of workmanship, or lack thereof, of pen technicians. If you like a business do business with it. If you don't like a business don't do business with it. Caveat emptor.

 

So personally, I would love it if the moderators would lock this discussion so people would get back to discussion about fountain pens.

 

No one is obligated to read this thread, let alone post to it. Talk about shutting people up!!!! This thread is only "taking away" to the extent that people want to be taken away, and based on almost 400 posts, it seems like the issue is pretty germane (of course, I should deduct for the tarantula posts, but somehow I suspect the number of on-point posts will reach 400 anyway).

[Treecat]

LIST OWNER/MODERATORS: I propose a forum, similar to the one found here:

 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=7

 

How about it? Can we put it under consideration?

 

Why do this at FPN? If this is such a great idea, why doesn't someone go out and start their own pen forum and set up review sub-forums in it? I think that was suggested many many pages ago, but so far, no one who is complaining that they can't criticize pen restorers/nib pros is going out and doing it. Why not, if this is such a brilliant idea?

 

Uh--maybe because they'd rather have FPN pick up the cost of running the forum and the hassle of moderating the review sub-forums and threads than go through the effort themselves? :hmm1:

Edited February 6, 2010 by Treecat

[Sharkle]

LIST OWNER/MODERATORS: I propose a forum, similar to the one found here:

 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=7

 

How about it? Can we put it under consideration?

 

Why do this at FPN? If this is such a great idea, why doesn't someone go out and start their own pen forum and set up review sub-forums in it? I think that was suggested many many pages ago, but so far, no one who is complaining that they can't criticize pen restorers/nib pros is going out and doing it. Why not, if this is such a brilliant idea?

 

Uh--maybe because they'd rather have FPN pick up the cost of running the forum and the hassle of moderating the review sub-forums and threads than go through the effort themselves? :hmm1:

 

I see where a few posters have named SP names and yet the thread lives and no one, to my knowledge (let me know if I missed something), has been chastised or censored for it. Is the cat out of the bag enough now that this issue will play out with more and more SP experiences popping up and we'll just see what happens, rather than making more work for mods by setting up something official?

[ethernautrix]

I see where a few posters have named SP names and yet the thread lives and no one, to my knowledge (let me know if I missed something), has been chastised or censored for it. Is the cat out of the bag enough now that this issue will play out with more and more SP experiences popping up and we'll just see what happens, rather than making more work for mods by setting up something official?

 

I feel hopeful, Sharkle. FWIW.

[mstone]

On a lighter note, it is kind of funny to see some of the "constitutional big words" thrown around here, such as "freedom of speech", "censorship", etc., but "the right to face you accuser" seems to be a big word of the undesirable kind

Actually, no. Several people have mentioned that "criticism via PM" combines all the worse attributes, and doesn't give the vendors an opportunity to see and respond to the criticism.

I was referring to those posters who didn't want their names to be made public when trashing a service provider. They want freedom of speech, but they want to deny the accused the right to face them, i.e., they want to accuse anonymously.

I really just don't understand where you're coming from. The "accused" has access to the same public post as anyone else, and can respond. Do you really think something is to be gained by attaching the "accuser's" personal information to the post, or are you just stirring the pot? I already suggested that part of the guidelines for how to handle such posts would be to require the poster to provide contact information via PM to the vendor, but nobody who wants to bash the idea of constructive criticism seems interested in reasonable dialog, so all we see is pointless bashing of the concept rather than something productive.

[pixwriter]

Please note that the previous topic was removed because of its inflamatory nature and the fact that it is bad ettiquette to reveal the contents of a personal e-mail in the way that the original poster of the removed topic chose to do. I'll leave this topic open for now, but it is treading close to the line.

 

Carrie - Moderator

 

I find this the most shocking post in this thread. The last sentence is just stunning. This was only on page 2 and I can find nothing in the prior posts to account for this judgement on this thread.

 

I think this is concrete evidence that what seems to me entirely valid- but negative- comment on some topics is discouraged.

In addition I have found the remarks of some of those criticising the OP offensively and inappropriately self-righteous.

 

I have never even considered sending a nib to be worked on, but the overwhelming impression I have received from reading the FPN in general is that this would be a completely positive experience with a number of named individuals. Certainly I have read nothing that gave the impression I should solicit private opinions before considering sending a pen to them.

[Sharkle]

 

I feel hopeful, Sharkle. FWIW.

 

It's worth a lot, thank you!

[Lloyd]

When I "named names" earlier, I accidentally left off one: Steve Braun of AllWriteNow. He easily garnered a 90% for outstanding after sales service, pre and post sales communication, and just plain being nice to deal with via phone and email.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Lloyd

[eric.zamir]

I just want to say that I agree with whoever felt that Provider-bashing must not be anonymous. My name is Eric Zamir-Zimmerman, and I stand behind every word I post. It's sleazy and cowardly to bash someone anonymously.

[wimg]

And with those encouraging words by Eric I declare this thread closed.

 

I think this topic has run its course for now.

 

Let me add that we took note of all the suggestions made here, and of a proposal by the nibmeisters themselves.

 

What the ultimate or eventual solution to this whole issue is, I or the other moderators and admins don't know yet, but we are looking at possibilities that do not increase the workload.

 

Please don't expect us to come up with a solution overnight, it will take several weeks to months, as we currently have more pressing problems keeping the site running, without too many time outs, downtime and other issues. And this, to be frank, is right now our number 1 priority.

 

Warmest regards, Wim