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My Own Ink Torture test on NOODLERS INKS


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24 replies to this topic

#1 farseer911

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 03:10

OK lets just start out by saying This is in no way an official test and your miles may vary.

I Started this test with Rhodia 6x8 grid pad, and 3 pilot Prera's loaded with Noodlers Heart of Darkness, Bad Blue Heron, Eternal Fox Red, a Plat Preppy 03 with Noodlers Helbender Red and a sharpie and a Pilot G2/. I wrote the following and let it set for 30 minutes.

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Then I placed it in the sink and sprayed CLOROX Clean Up Cleaner w/ Bleach on the paper for 30 minutes.

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Then I rinsed it and let it dry for about an hour

I was surprised by the results. I added a new untouched ink for comparison on the paper.
They yellow showed up better in the photo than with the naked eye. with the eye you could tell there was something yellow there, but could not make it out.
the camera enhanced that on its own....


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Not in the least scientific, but I was surprised by how it ended, and feel like the only ink I am going to use from now on is HOD.

Edited by farseer911, 18 January 2010 - 05:21.

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#2 buffalowings

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 03:38

heart of darkness wins!!!
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#3 bluemagister

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:26

HoD FTW! Awesome test!

#4 Viseguy

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:35

Very interesting. There's nothing quite like Noodler's black bulletproofs.
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#5 Signum1

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 05:15

Great job!
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#6 Alice L

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 06:05

Thank you. This is very helpful!

#7 Ed Ronax

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 13:00

Excellent test, thanks.
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#8 Hemingway

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 13:28

Pretty neat. Thanks for this test.

Peter
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#9 voop

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 15:54

Wow. I am surprised, and rather disappointed, by the Eternal Fox Red turning all yellow. I got that, specifically, as a "bulletproof red", but it seems that it rather is a "bulletproof yellow".....

Hmm...interesting indeed. Wonder how the polar blue and the hunter green would hold up, those are too labeled as "bulletproof" on my bottles.

#10 farseer911

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 03:30

Wow. I am surprised, and rather disappointed, by the Eternal Fox Red turning all yellow. I got that, specifically, as a "bulletproof red", but it seems that it rather is a "bulletproof yellow".....

Hmm...interesting indeed. Wonder how the polar blue and the hunter green would hold up, those are too labeled as "bulletproof" on my bottles.



I will have to get some hunter green and give it a shot. I have polar blue, I will endeavor to get that, La Reine Mauve, and Noodlers Empire red and give them a test in the same manor.


I too was vastly let down with the Fox Red... But then again Hellbender was labeled Eternal on the bottle Too.....
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#11 Eternally Noodling

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 21:55

FYI -


As was listed long ago in a post about fox red and hellbender red/devil red here and on the Noodler's web site - we NEVER were able to make the red/magenta side of the spectrum as impervious to bleach as we have with the far more durable blues/greens/yellows/blacks/grays/browns/oranges such as luxury blue, hunter green, all polar inks, blacks such as standard, anti-feather, heart of darkness, oranges such as naval, Aztec, sun never sets, and mazu...etc....russian series, india, etc...

The reds will hold up for safety purposes on a safety document as a bulletproof ink for security - as the rest of such a document is destroyed by strong bleaches, but they will NOT hold up as well as the other colors against strong bleach attacks and they never have since day one. They are the most durable reds on the market and in their color class, however...the bleach attack has always ranked them at the lowest among the colors for overall durability. You will destroy a safety check or similar document with such treatment - and the ink will remain as remnants, not as durable as the other colors - but still there and to the extent the document is no longer viable for typical forgery attempts.

Durability against bleaches would be ranked as follows - high: blacks, greens, blues, purples (La Reine), Kung Te Cheng, browns, oranges, yellows (year of the pig), blue ghost/white whale, Russia/Taiwan/China/India/Germany/Sweden/Australia/Singapore/Thailand, etc.. - just about all foreign language label inks, some UK colors (note Empire Red, Socrates, Mata Hari, and Heather have marginally less resistance to bleaches than other eternals...behaving similarly to the earlier red spectrum inks). Lower resistance vrs. strong bleach paper decomposition tests: Fox, Devil/Jinn, previously mentioned UK variants, and Hellbender.

A similar list was posted when Swisher introduced those particular colors (devil and hellbender) - all very high for UV light resistance, solvent resistance, water resistance, etc...but grades lower against the harshest tests which involved the chemical decomposition of the cellulose itself (using industrial bleaches). On that score - the reds and magentas mentioned never have equaled the durability of the other colors.

The Warden's Ink series are built like combination locks - as you tamper with them, they will show it in predictable ways...and have laser tampering resistance built into their design as well as many other factors. They are not the "usual" inks - but are made to make it as difficult as possible (virtually impossible, based upon all that we have been shown on current forgery technology and techniques...though technology can change that and we fully intend to keep ahead of the curve when such changes are discovered) for a forger to alter writing upon a numerical security line placed upon a safety featured document.

Hope this information helps (if not, I'll answer PMs as soon as I can in more detail if requested)- labels could become large texts very quickly, which has always been a "rock and hard place" situation.
"The pen is mightier than the sword."

The pen could be mightier than the thief and the gun if it is filled with a bulletproof ink too!

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#12 GouletPens

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 22:48

What a fun test!

I'll have to rethink soaking my journals in bleach though....seemed like a good idea... ;)

#13 farseer911

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 00:24

What a fun test!

I'll have to rethink soaking my journals in bleach though....seemed like a good idea... ;)


OK maybe not journals in bleach, but I have had papers that I have used at work exposed to solvents, and the rough diagram was totally gone due to poor ink.... I am sure others have some of the same chance of exposure to some of these. I have also spilled stain on a layout, and used solvent to remove it, and I know that the diagram would still be there after the solvent because I did it in Noodlers Black.

So my tests for me are valid for my potential needs. Ever need to take industrial adhesive off a steel chart and pray that the dimensions are still under it so you do not have to spend another $150 bucks to get a new printout???? I have, but noodlers black has saved the day.

But I still would like to know what the hell happened to Hellbender....

Because you never know....
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#14 voop

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 02:10

FYI -


As was listed long ago in a post about fox red and hellbender red/devil red here and on the Noodler's web site - we NEVER were able to make the red/magenta side of the spectrum as impervious to bleach as we have with the far more durable blues/greens/yellows/blacks/grays/browns/oranges such as luxury blue, hunter green, all polar inks, blacks such as standard, anti-feather, heart of darkness, oranges such as naval, Aztec, sun never sets, and mazu...etc....russian series, india, etc...

The reds will hold up for safety purposes on a safety document as a bulletproof ink for security - as the rest of such a document is destroyed by strong bleaches, but they will NOT hold up as well as the other colors against strong bleach attacks and they never have since day one. They are the most durable reds on the market and in their color class, however...the bleach attack has always ranked them at the lowest among the colors for overall durability. You will destroy a safety check or similar document with such treatment - and the ink will remain as remnants, not as durable as the other colors - but still there and to the extent the document is no longer viable for typical forgery attempts.

Durability against bleaches would be ranked as follows - high: blacks, greens, blues, purples (La Reine), Kung Te Cheng, browns, oranges, yellows (year of the pig), blue ghost/white whale, Russia/Taiwan/China/India/Germany/Sweden/Australia/Singapore/Thailand, etc.. - just about all foreign language label inks, some UK colors (note Empire Red, Socrates, Mata Hari, and Heather have marginally less resistance to bleaches than other eternals...behaving similarly to the earlier red spectrum inks). Lower resistance vrs. strong bleach paper decomposition tests: Fox, Devil/Jinn, previously mentioned UK variants, and Hellbender.

A similar list was posted when Swisher introduced those particular colors (devil and hellbender) - all very high for UV light resistance, solvent resistance, water resistance, etc...but grades lower against the harshest tests which involved the chemical decomposition of the cellulose itself (using industrial bleaches). On that score - the reds and magentas mentioned never have equaled the durability of the other colors.

The Warden's Ink series are built like combination locks - as you tamper with them, they will show it in predictable ways...and have laser tampering resistance built into their design as well as many other factors. They are not the "usual" inks - but are made to make it as difficult as possible (virtually impossible, based upon all that we have been shown on current forgery technology and techniques...though technology can change that and we fully intend to keep ahead of the curve when such changes are discovered) for a forger to alter writing upon a numerical security line placed upon a safety featured document.

Hope this information helps (if not, I'll answer PMs as soon as I can in more detail if requested)- labels could become large texts very quickly, which has always been a "rock and hard place" situation.


I take it that you are "the horses mouth" when it comes to Noodler's inks - and if so, thanks a bunch for that explanation, that helps a lot "setting expectations right" for these inks :thumbup:

I have a question, and the answer may be "no, can't do", but I'll ask it anyways: is there any scientific (as in peer-reviewed, published) studies of the durability of these inks, that you can point to? I understand that you are working with professionals in forgery-research, so it might just exist......

Thanks again :thumbup:

#15 dandelion

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:19

Great test! Thank you for doing this!
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#16 rogerb

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:52

Thanks for the elucidation, Nathan.

(I only have La Reine Mauve as a BP ink, and really like it; although it didn't go well in a steel-nibbed Targa, it is fine in a Waterman Gentleman.)
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#17 professionaldilettante

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 01:21

Interesting... I wonder if HoD withstands Laser? that is what the huron ink is designed to withstand. but yeah, other than that, I'd still put my money on HoD.
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#18 lensassaman

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:29

I have a question, and the answer may be "no, can't do", but I'll ask it anyways: is there any scientific (as in peer-reviewed, published) studies of the durability of these inks, that you can point to? I understand that you are working with professionals in forgery-research, so it might just exist......


I've been looking at some such papers, though Noodler's isn't included. I will be conducting a series of fraud-resistant ink tests soon, though, for an academic publication, and will be including the Noodler's inks marketed as such. (It will probably be a year before the paper sees print, but I can post my preliminary results when I have them.)

#19 impossiblebird

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 14:56

Wow. I am surprised, and rather disappointed, by the Eternal Fox Red turning all yellow. I got that, specifically, as a "bulletproof red", but it seems that it rather is a "bulletproof yellow".....

I mix Noodler's Tsvetaeva (pinky red) with The Sun Never Sets (Orange), to make a fair approximation of poppy red, which stands up remarkably well to an overnight soak in water, followed by neat bleach for an hour or more. A line written with a Pilot F nib remains perfectly legible, even with my small writing, and remains pretty much true to its original colour; it loses that wee bit of water-soluble yellow 'glow' from The Sun Never Sets.

Sorry, I don't have the wherewithall to provide scans... :embarrassed_smile:


#20 y_bauluck

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 00:44

Can you please comment on how the Noodler's Bad Blue Heron and if you tried the Bad Belted Kingfisher copes with the Pilot Prera. I am considering of getting myself one with a fine nib, but the issue am having with those two Noodler's which are the only one I swear by are very quick to dry on my Parker Frontier Fine nib.

If you could please comment if the same issue arises with the Pilot Prera.

Nice test by the way. Keep it up






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