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Fake Pens


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#1 richardandtracy

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 16:49

While we all like to believe that no-one at FPN would sell fake pens it's always sensible to be on your guard. 'Caveat Emptor' is the thing you must remember as a buyer. The mods & admins at FPN try to weed out any suspicious pens, but we cannot guarantee that none will get through.

Some brands and models are faked more than others. It's well known that many Mont Blanc models are faked, as are the Parker Sonnets. The makes frequently faked can include (but probably are not limited to): Cartier, Christian Dior, Dupont, Dunhill, LV, Gucci, Mont Blanc, Parker and Hero.

Models frequently faked: MB146, MB149, Parker Sonnet, Parker Rialto, Hero 616.

So how does one spot a fake? The best bet is to take a look at a couple of these articles:
Parker Sonnet: http://www.penhero.c...onnetClones.htm or http://www.stylophil...7-06/07sonn.htm and http://azfp.blogspot...ke-sonnets.html
Sonnet boxes: http://azfp.blogspot...ine-sonnet.html
Hero 616: http://www.fountainp...ic=106057&st=15
ST Dupont: http://www.stylophil...-06/02count.htm
Pelikan: http://www.fountainp...howtopic=136710

Penpedia Wikki: http://penpedia.com/...on_Counterfeits

If you see any other articles that help identify fakes, please add the article at the end of this thread. We will update the list above as & when appropriate.

Regards,

Richard.

Edited by richardandtracy, 31 August 2010 - 12:52.


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#2 jorgerp1

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 22:57

Many thanks!!! We keep the eyes well open :thumbup:

Edited by jorgerp1, 14 January 2010 - 10:13.


#3 RLTodd

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 23:18

?Why would anyone go to the trouble, work, effort, capital investment, labor costs, etc., to counterfit a Hero 616?

It would be like counterfitting one dollar bills!
YMMV

#4 richardandtracy

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 10:08

?Why would anyone go to the trouble, work, effort, capital investment, labor costs, etc., to counterfit a Hero 616?

It would be like counterfitting one dollar bills!

But if you can fake millions and make 10c on each...

There was a thread about this in 'Writing Instruments', but I can't find it anymore.

Regards,

Richard.

#5 sokuban

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 16:00

I was curious, and I think I found it: http://www.fountainp...pic=106057&st=0

Read the replies and you'll see the TC realizes his pen is a fake. (Ahh, it's not in Writing Instruments... so I guess it might be a different thread, but it talks of fake Hero 616es anyhow.)

Edited by sokuban, 14 January 2010 - 16:02.


#6 richardandtracy

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 16:07

That's the one. Thanks!
Posted Image Memory fail.

Regards,

Richard.

Edited by richardandtracy, 14 January 2010 - 16:11.


#7 dcasper

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 16:20

There was an excellent article with superb photos by Bill Riepl in Stylophiles, 2006, on ST Dupont fakes.

The quality of some of the knock-offs is astounding.

http://www.stylophil...-06/02count.htm

#8 jar

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 16:35

Pelikan is also on the replica list.

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#9 Bleep

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 06:32

There was an excellent article with superb photos by Bill Riepl in Stylophiles, 2006, on ST Dupont fakes.

The quality of some of the knock-offs is astounding.

http://www.stylophil...-06/02count.htm



I agree the photography is wonderful and a good article but:

I have a gold dust lacquer Olympio bought from a reputable store over 10 yrs ago and the box does not have ".. the Chinese lacquer logo running around the top edge, and the Dupont "D" on the front lower edge." Similarly over time the cap does now rotate relatively easily. SO from the criteria in the article, if I ever wanted to sell it (God forbid: it was a wedding gift from my wife), people reading that article would assume I'm trying to sell a fake. I'd be interested in whether others with genuine pens have similar discrepancies from the article and from what may come to be regarded as a definitive way to tell fakes?
DuPont Gold Dust Olympio Lacquer FP Fine (Visconti Blue)
Black Pilot Fermo FP Fine (Noodlers Coral Sea Blue)
Diplomat Black-Chrome FP Fine (Aurora Black)

Black Pilot Vanishing point FP Fine (not inked)

#10 jar

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 15:58

There was an excellent article with superb photos by Bill Riepl in Stylophiles, 2006, on ST Dupont fakes.

The quality of some of the knock-offs is astounding.

http://www.stylophil...-06/02count.htm



I agree the photography is wonderful and a good article but:

I have a gold dust lacquer Olympio bought from a reputable store over 10 yrs ago and the box does not have ".. the Chinese lacquer logo running around the top edge, and the Dupont "D" on the front lower edge." Similarly over time the cap does now rotate relatively easily. SO from the criteria in the article, if I ever wanted to sell it (God forbid: it was a wedding gift from my wife), people reading that article would assume I'm trying to sell a fake. I'd be interested in whether others with genuine pens have similar discrepancies from the article and from what may come to be regarded as a definitive way to tell fakes?


There are several issues with the article when it comes to things like packaging so that is the least reliable method of telling fakes. In fact, the early ST Duponts also did not use the recessed positioning for the pens either.

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#11 jar

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 16:00

Add Cartier.

and Christian Dior.

Edited by jar, 15 January 2010 - 16:09.

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#12 Quicksilver

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:11

If anyone is willing to lend a hand, I set up a page for this in the Penpedia wiki:
http://penpedia.com/...on_Counterfeits

Feel free to add suggestions for identifying fakes, or if you know about specific pens, add a section to the pen's profile page describing how to tell a fake from a real pen (pictures would be great too).
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#13 antoniosz

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 20:25

I just want to let you know that I have restored the photos of the genuine and fake boxes that I used to have in this post:

http://azfp.blogspot...ine-sonnet.html

#14 Scrawler

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 20:29

I have a bunch of fake Hero 616 and Hero 266. They are no where near as good as the real ones. I wanted a bulk quantity of real Hero's so that I could give pens away to people who asked to borrow a pen, to encourage them to explore fountain pens as an option. The fake Hero's are not suitable for that purpose, so buying them was a waste of money. I still want a bulk quantity of real low cost Hero pens, because I will always need pens I can give away. When one goes on eBay it is difficult to know who are selling real pens that will do the job, and who are selling counterfeits that will not.

#15 Carrie

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 20:39

Please could you keep posts on topic please. Feel free to post articles which may relate to fake pens and how to spot them or share your experiences of how to spot fake pens. Questions about individual retailers or EBay sellers belong in Marketwatch. Thanks.

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#16 Alphabet

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 04:11

I bought a fake Montegrappa from somebody in the FPN marketplace. It was a pretty good fake until I put a loop to it. The engraving was rather questionable. I knew something was up when I put it side-by-side with the real deal. That's why some of those macro shots of the nib and engraving really helps determine if it is fake.

#17 Caneta

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 23:44

this "authenticity guaranteed" Sonnet doesn't look like any I have seen before 170433230684
on the 18th of 20 images! the metal thread can be seen to be on the barrel rather than the section

spotted another strange one, not sure if this is a fake or just wrongly identified 370318476879

Edited by Caneta, 27 January 2010 - 00:01.


#18 Rabbit

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:06

Here are two more ways to spot fake Parker Sonnets (and possibly other pens.) To use these methods with certainty (i.e. to rule out uncontrollable variables) it helps to have a known real one to compare the possible fake one to.

A few years ago Antonios was telling me about the real 18k gold nibs vs. fake nibs that are steel but stamped "18k." With the proper finish, both metals may look similar to the naked eye, but the molecular structure will always be different. If you take x-rays of objects, the denser materials will show up "white" on a film, versus a less dense material that will show up "gray" or "black." (example, an x-ray of a human body part: bone looks white but skin, muscle, fat, and air look black or gray.)

Apply this to fountain pen nibs and 18k gold (left) looks WHITE and cheaper steel (right) looks gray.

Posted Image


My second technique I discovered completely by accident. (note: this may not be as dramatic on some computer monitors that have poor contrast or low brightness.) I was photographing a pen case and instead of using my normal lighting methods, I was in a hurry so I used the on-camera flash and had it turned up really bright and had it positioned too close to the subject. The two Sonnets used for this photo look IDENTICAL to the naked eye regarding the blackness, but as you can see in the harsh camera flash photo, the FAKE Sonnet (top) looks like a sickly gray color, where as the REAL Sonnet (bottom) retains its normal black color pretty well.

Posted Image

For comparison, here's another photo where I turned the flash down a little bit. It's still a bright on-camera flash, so the fake one looks slightly different, but not as much. You'll have to trust me that when you see them under normal room light in person, the blacks are pretty much identical. I'm not a color expert or a materials scientist or anything, but I've heard of the word "metamerism" and I believe this phenomenon (in addition to other factors) might have something to do with what is going on between the real and fake Sonnets. (More on metamerism: http://en.wikipedia....ism_%28color%29)

Posted Image

--Stephen

#19 buffalowings

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 19:40

has anyone ever encountered a fake pilot? how about a pelikan or lamy?
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#20 aweber

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 01:10

I wanted to add a recent experience regarding what I believe is a counterfeit Montblanc Chopin FP. I purchased the pen from a posting on Craig's List. No need for lectures, I won't be doing that again. But the pen was very convincing as was the packaging. The pen barrel glowed a deep red as it should have, the nib was engraved with the correct markings, the cap barrel was engraved Meisterstuck as you would expect and it has the requisite serial number on clip ring, 2 letters and 7 numbers, the clip was a solid piece not rolled and had PIX on the underside. What made me doubtful was that the clip ring was loose and as was the barrel for the nib. Has anyone come across something similar. I had it looked at by the people from FPH while at the Philadelphia Pen Show who confirmed by fear. Fortunately I am getting my money back.






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