Waterman brand focus

August 1, 2006

Hi all

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but why isn't there a forum for Waterman pens in the brand focus section.

Its just quite interesting that its such a dominant brand (and one of the original big four) yet there is no dedicated section.

Thoughts?

- Mark

August 1, 2006

Oopps forget that posting, just seen the other conversation going on.

I did do a search first before I posted, honest!

- Mark

The link to the other chat is.....

Waterman forum

Edited August 1, 2006 by london

August 1, 2006

Dear Mark,

I think I know why we don't have a Waterman forum. There's not much to say about them except they are WONDERFUL!

My fountain pen collection is growing and I'm very happy with most of the new pens I've acquired lately. But when I sit down to write a long letter, I always return to my good old not-very-expensive Waterman Phileas. I have yet to write with anything smoother.

Judybug

August 1, 2006

Great minds think alike (or in the case of the moderators, very sloooowly...)

I said the same thing HERE

It must surely be time for that one new forum without opening the floodgates to a bunch of others? http://bestsmileys.com/bumping/3.gif

August 1, 2006

In the Community Feedback Forum, there is an existing thread requesting a Waterman Forum. Click the link HERE and make yourselves heard. A little patience and persistence is required, but that's the way we got the Pelikan and Parker Forums.

August 1, 2006

Hi all

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but why isn't there a forum for Waterman pens in the brand focus section.

Its just quite interesting that its such a dominant brand (and one of the original big four) yet there is no dedicated section.

Thoughts?

- Mark

I can only assume that admin is biased against Waterman. <_< I'd like to know why! (Sorry - only joking, of course)

Yes, Waterman is a major brand, and alongside Parker, Montblanc, Sheaffer, Cross and Pelikan, one of the big six famous brands globally.

However, my analysis shows that Waterman has become a very 'European' pen brand, meaning that it is mainly popular in Europe, especially continental Europe. I don't get the feeling that it's so popular in the USA. That could explain the lack of enthusiasm for Waterman.

Edited August 1, 2006 by marklavar

August 2, 2006

Not to stir the pot, but I find it absolutely astounding that there's a Conway Stewart forum and no Waterman forum ... very odd. :blink:

August 2, 2006

This is literally a cut-and-paste from the similar thread down in the community feedback forum:

I would argue against a Waterman forum for my own pragmatic reasons: there aren't a lot of vintage Waterman fans on this board, as far as I can tell, and modern Watermans bore me to tears, by and large.

What I would argue for is what someone else mentioned some time ago: consolidation of the pen brand forums by region, perhaps keeping Sheaffer and Parker, but adding an "other U.S." forum, and also something like the following: English pens, German pens, Italian pens, Japanese pens. Frankly, a forum devoted to Cross pens seems pretty dismal to me, and why Conway Stewart and Pelikan deserve forums but other makers from those countries do not is a bit mystifying. And no Italian? That is also mystifying.

The argument could be made that everything that is excluded by the current pen brand forums are well served in other forums and I would agree with that to a degree, but only if we are talking about modern pens.

Certainly there is a significant bias for modern pens on this message board, which probably just reflects the preferences of most of the steady participants here and that is of course appropriate. But changing how the pen brand forums are organized would allow for more mixing of vintage and modern pen discussion and that would be to everyone's benefit, I think.

best, Dan

Edited August 2, 2006 by dcarmell

August 2, 2006

I think dividing pens by geography would create more problems than it solves. Where would Waterman go in that scheme? A US pen company in vintage terms, more French in modern models. As for Parker ... where to put all those 50s Newhaven Duofolds? Or the UK-made 1990s Centennials? Aren't they English-made pens (but perhaps they were US designed)?

Even on vintage pens, where does Mabie Todd go? Early ones "other US", later ones "English". And what about the transitional models with New York nibs and English bodies?

At first I thought a Waterman forum would be a good plan, but taken to its logical conclusion, we could end up with a series of brand name forums and no common ground. That would be a pity, as I for one found the eclectic Writing Instruments forum very helpful when I was a total newbie. That kind of cross-pollination could be lost.

Equally, brand focus forums do tend to highlight particular pens and increase deeper awareness.

I don't envy the mods in having to resolve all this. But I would just suggest that too many one-brand forums might lead to a sort of Balkanisation of the site. And we know where that leads ...

Edited August 2, 2006 by RichardS

August 2, 2006

" I would argue against a Waterman forum for my own pragmatic reasons: there aren't a lot of vintage Waterman fans on this board, as far as I can tell, and modern Watermans bore me to tears, by and large."

I don't think this sort of language is very helpful. A lot of pen brands bore me to tears - now, where shall I start: Sheaffer, Pelikan? As for vintage fans, well this forum isn't only for vintage fans.

August 2, 2006

I think dividing pens by geography would create more problems than it solves. Where would Waterman go in that scheme? A US pen company in vintage terms, more French in modern models. As for Parker ... where to put all those 50s Newhaven Duofolds? Or the UK-made 1990s Centennials? Aren't they English-made pens (but perhaps they were US designed)?

Even on vintage pens, where does Mabie Todd go? Early ones "other US", later ones "English". And what about the transitional models with New York nibs and English bodies?

At first I thought a Waterman forum would be a good plan, but taken to its logical conclusion, we could end up with a series of brand name forums and no common ground. That would be a pity, as I for one found the eclectic Writing Instruments forum very helpful when I was a total newbie. That kind of cross-pollination could be lost.

Equally, brand focus forums do tend to highlight particular pens and increase deeper awareness.

I don't envy the mods in having to resolve all this. But I would just suggest that too many one-brand forums might lead to a sort of Balkanisation of the site. And we know where that leads ...

Well, after careful reflection, I think that you risk entering a minefield by breaking down brands according to region. In 1930 both Parker and Waterman were American, but now you could argue they are British and French, but then they have an American owner, Newell Rubbermaid, so where does the buck stop?

In my opinion, the six major brands (Cross, Montblanc, Parker, Pelikan, Sheaffer and Waterman) should have their own forums, as they account for the lion's share fo the global fountain pen market. Then we should have national forums to cover the smaller and lesser know brands.

Alternatively, get rid of the dedicated forums completely, and discuss the brands in the main message board.

August 2, 2006

Mark wrote:

In my opinion, the six major brands (Cross, Montblanc, Parker, Pelikan, Sheaffer and Waterman) should have their own forums, as they account for the lion's share fo the global fountain pen market. Then we should have national forums to cover the smaller and lesser know brands.

---------------------------------

That sounds like a rational proposal to me!

I wouldn't worry too much about those makers, like Parker and Swan, who made pens in one more countries: call it cross-fertilization! If you look at Andy Lambrou's pens, he handled the question quite simply, placing the US made pens in the US section of his books and placing the UK made pens in the UK section--not too complicated, is it?

I never suggested that any of these forums were only for vintage pen fans, Mark, indeed I explicitly mentioned that the overall focus here at FPN is more slanted toward modern pens. But I factor in vintage pens when I consider a brand forum.

And the consideration of vintage pens, by the way, is why Watermans bore me so--they are such a weak reflection of the wonderful pens Waterman once made! That's why I don't put Cross (even more boring pens!) in the same bucket, since Cross was never principally a fountain pen maker.

Dan

Edited August 2, 2006 by dcarmell