Primitive Nib Surgery

[DWL]

Kissing,

 

Your not butting in at all & I'm not attacking Dillon, I was just currious why a "nibmeister" wouldn't do his own nibs? It just struck me as odd. My apologies if this sounded like an attack. BUT, If someone sold cars and said "I wouldnt drive one of those even though I sell them" would give me pause. Same thing if someone worked in a reastraunt, I'll serve you the food but won't eat here myself......

 

I don't need to send him any of my pens. I do all of my own nib regrinding & repairs. I have been making my living doing this for several years now, so I'll pass on the sending them to Dillon.

 

I'm delighted that a kid like him (and you too for that matter) are into pens, makes for a better hobby for everyone to have new blood coming in. I'm even happy that he's doing repairs foir others & has a couple of dealerships. Great! good for him & congrats! Get more dealerships, do more, expand and grow to be the penultimate penman/dealer in the world.

 

Dennis

Edited August 22, 2006 by DWL

[kissing]

my apologies

 

When we are limited to words on an internet page, i guess misunderstandings can happen. Sorry about that last post by me - I just happened to read your previous replies to Dillon just then and thought you were a bit on the harsh side. But i guess criticism and challenging other's claims are a part of any art - fountain pens included

Edited August 22, 2006 by kissing

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I just let them be as stock as possible.

 

I do them if I want custom nibs, but normally I sell the custom nibs right away.

 

Dillon

[Dillo]

"I would fix it myself since I am a nibmeister."

 

"There are very few of my pens with custom nibs. I don't grind my own pens."

 

Dillon, If your a renowned nibmeister why don't you grind your own nibs?

 

Also just currious? Is that nibmeister title you keep tossing around self imposed or was it bestowed on you by the FP community for years of superrior service & quality of work?

 

Dennis

Hi,

 

Five people gave it to me.

 

I tend to be more conservative because I rarely is ever grind my own pen nibs and I sell what I grind 99% of the time. I also would never self-bestow a title unless someone gave it to me.

 

Dillon

[tonydacrow]

Just the slightest bit off topic, but one of these days I want to place a nitrided tungsten carbide, cubic boron nitride or poly diamond tip on one of my nibs in a sharp italic configuration and see how long they stay that way. For those of you in the know, TC, CBN and PD are extreemly hard materials used in the machining industry for cutting tools. I've often wondered why the pen companies don't use them and instead continue using "iridium" tips which were old technology even in the '30s and '40s!

[Dillo]

Just the slightest bit off topic, but one of these days I want to place a nitrided tungsten carbide, cubic boron nitride or poly diamond tip on one of my nibs in a sharp italic configuration and see how long they stay that way. For those of you in the know, TC, CBN and PD are extreemly hard materials used in the machining industry for cutting tools. I've often wondered why the pen companies don't use them and instead continue using "iridium" tips which were old technology even in the '30s and '40s!

Hi,

 

We don't use Iridium now, but the best nibs are tipped with the finest tipping alloys that are almost as hard as diamond. I have nibs in the sharp italic configuration that have the hardest tipping alloys and I have not seen any dulling yet.

 

By the way, Parker uses the cheapest and least wear-resistant tipping. There are several grades.

 

When I do get set up for tipping, I will be using the same equipment used in the factories and the best tipping grade and a slitter. I will do both steel and gold with a special osmium, ruthenium alloy, and I will be doing the work myself.

 

Dillon

[wimg]

Just the slightest bit off topic, but one of these days I want to place a nitrided tungsten carbide, cubic boron nitride or poly diamond tip on one of my nibs in a sharp italic configuration and see how long they stay that way.  For those of you in the know, TC, CBN and PD are extreemly hard materials used in the machining industry for cutting tools.  I've often wondered why the pen companies don't use them and instead continue using "iridium" tips which were old technology even in the '30s and '40s!

Hi Tony,

 

I guess because it needs to be welded onto the tip for best fitting. Polishing and cutting materials like you mention may be harder, but they are also harder to fix permanently to a metal nib, and are very hard to cut as well. Furthermore, diamand may be very hard, but is also brittle. I don't know the properties of tungsten carbide or boron nitride, but I guess they will be quite brittle as well.

 

Being brittle, other than not being shock resistant, means you get sharp edges or points, which is not what you want in the tip of a nib. And the way these materials wear is exactly why they are used for cutting, grinding and polishing, and not really for other applications, well, AFAIK anyway. I may stand corrected, as I am not a materials expert...

 

Finally, "iridium" is made from ruthenium and ruthenium alloys these days, and the technology used for creating small pellets of this stuff is relatively new and something they couldn't do in the old days: they just took little pieces of broken up (iridium) ore, welded those to the tip of a nib, and just hoped for the best when cutting, grinding and polishing. With current technology the properties of the material used is exactly known beforehand. In the past it was just a matter of luck.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[tonydacrow]

wimg and Dillo,

 

Thanks for the info. I know my proposed tipping materials are brittle, but if one were to subject the tip to enough force to shatter them, he or she would have more problems than just a broken tip. Besides, these materials are brazed to base metals all the time.

 

It certainly would take more time to grind these nibs and all grinding would have to be done with diamond wheels. But when you consider the cost of some "premium" pens, I don't think it would be unreasonable. In addition, these pen nibs could withstand abrasion more than 100 times better than currently used materials. After all, the metals now used are very hard, but they are still just metals. All metals by virtue of the physical properties which define them as metals will be softer than most ceramics, borides, carbides or nitrides. Besides, can you imagine the advertising potential?

 

"Buy Brand X pens and write with diamonds!"

[Ruaidhri]

I had to vote "other" - I would be well capable of most normal nib repairs/adjustments but would NOT call myself a nibmeister. That is a whole different league.

 

I find myself amused when someone messes about with a couple of nibs, doesn't ruin them, and then proclaims to the world "I am de Man "

[JimStrutton]

I had to vote "other" - I would be well capable of most normal nib repairs/adjustments but would NOT call myself a nibmeister. That is a whole different league.

 

I find myself amused when someone messes about with a couple of nibs, doesn't ruin them, and then proclaims to the world "I am de Man "

But Ruaidhri, with the resources at your disposal, surely you would do a bit of tweaking or smoothing?

 

Jim

[kissing]

I had to vote "other" - I would be well capable of most normal nib repairs/adjustments but would NOT call myself a nibmeister. That is a whole different league.

 

I find myself amused when someone messes about with a couple of nibs, doesn't ruin them, and then proclaims to the world "I am de Man "

I am de Man!! !!

 

 

 

 

[OldGriz]

I had to vote "other" - I would be well capable of most normal nib repairs/adjustments but would NOT call myself a nibmeister. That is a whole different league.

 

I find myself amused when someone messes about with a couple of nibs, doesn't ruin them, and then proclaims to the world "I am de Man " 

I am de Man!! !!

 

 

 

 

NO, You are THE KID..... :blink: :blink: :blink:

[Ruaidhri]

Jim,

 

I was quite happy taking Her Ladyship's Pelikan 750 from broad to a med-broad italic, with just a hint off the corners. Smooth as a baby's ...

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/TestWrite.jpg

 

Or knocking this up in the workshop (re-constituted Lapis & African Blackwood, size as Centennial)

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/Lapis.jpg

 

But when I wanted extra flex on a 1940s Swan Leverless I sent it to Richard Binder. John Mottishaw would also have been an option.

When I wanted the silver cap on my 1948 dj "51" done I sent it to Daniel K.

 

My BIG talent is knowing when someone is better at something than I am

[amh210]

My BIG talent is knowing when someone is better at something than I am 

That explains why MT has such a large staff and Kissing has a job!

[Arkanabar]

Tony,

 

as to why manufacturers stick with ruthenium instead of the materials you mentioned...

 

Spider Robinson put something in one of his books that I have come to agree with. When the question is "Why do they?" or "Why don't they?" the answer is usually money. And it's usually a good answer.

 

How much extra use do you think the TC, CBN or PD would provide, compared to the ruthenium alloys, and how much would most users notice? Particularly when the answer to the second question is "none" I don't see why they should damage their profits that way, it's a disservice to the stockholders.

 

Incidentally, from what I've read, antique premium dip pens were often tipped with rubies.

[Dillo]

I had to vote "other" - I would be well capable of most normal nib repairs/adjustments but would NOT call myself a nibmeister. That is a whole different league.

 

I find myself amused when someone messes about with a couple of nibs, doesn't ruin them, and then proclaims to the world "I am de Man "

Hi,

 

Amusing indeed.

 

A group of people tacked that onto me. I don't pat my own back...

 

Dillon

[Gerry]

Bump...

 

Just looking for a different post to look at everytime someone finds this thread and votes.

 

The previous one was pretty much imprinted on my mind indelibly from repetition...

 

Please feel free to post an explanation or elaborate on your thoughts if you are adding your vote to the poll...

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[kissing]

Oh boy, this topic is like a time capsule for me. I created it when I was very new to FPN

 

An update on nib surgery. I now think it's better to leave nibs as they are now

[Gerry]

Yeah, I still shudder when I look at the tools Kissing...

 

The wire cutter/bolt cutter/crimper combo tool is a great tool - but I really took a doubletake when I read you used it for nib trimming...

 

And the sandpaper.... What is that - 80 grit? I swear I can see the individual abrasive grains in the pic...

 

Onwards and upwards young fella.

 

Warm regards,

 

Gerry

[Gerry]

As this poll is months old - and has served its purpose, we are closing it to further votes and discussion. Should participants want to coninue discussing the topics, please open up another thread.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry