Primitive Nib Surgery

[Leigh R]

Hi,

 

The brown paper bags are nowhere near as good. With Micromesh (By 3M), you are talking about buttery smoothness.

 

Dillon

Many years ago, 3M was a client. (In my old ad agency.) I remember waiting in their lobby staring at all these abrasives on display. Gosh, if I only knew then what I know now... I would have maybe traded a radio script for Micromesh. :bonk:

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The brown paper bags are nowhere near as good. With Micromesh (By 3M), you are talking about buttery smoothness.

 

Dillon

Many years ago, 3M was a client. (In my old ad agency.) I remember waiting in their lobby staring at all these abrasives on display. Gosh, if I only knew then what I know now... I would have maybe traded a radio script for Micromesh. :bonk:

Hi,

 

Tell you what, we'll throw you into Kcat's time machine and crank it up. It will then take you back there and you can do your negotiation.

 

Dillon

[FLZapped]

Had a Scheaffer school pen that skipped. Turned out the feed was out of alignment. Worked great after a little experimental fixin'

 

-Bruce

[*david*]

I thought Calligraphy pens were the same as Italics stubs (ie, you write calligraphy writing with an italic stub nib?)

The words we use are not exactly logical, but:

 

Italic is taken to mean a nib with truly square corners, and usually a sharpened tip as well (i.e. the flat tip of the nib is chisel-like), and makes a huge difference between thick and thin writing. They are what you expect an italic calligrapher to use.

 

Stub is taken to mean a nib with rounded corners, not usually sharpened, and has less of a difference between thick and thin. Stubs are easier to write with, because they don't have sharp corners and sharp edges to catch on the paper.

 

You could do calligraphy-style writing with a stub, it just wouldn't look as nice.

 

Hope that helps.

[Gerry]

Some also modify the descriptions a little - like Richard, who has invented a Cursive Italic - an Italic with softer edges to allow cursive writing. The difference between that and a stub might be less than significant.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[kissing]

Some also modify the descriptions a little - like Richard, who has invented a Cursive Italic - an Italic with softer edges to allow cursive writing. The difference between that and a stub might be less than significant.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

yeah

 

It's been confusing me a lot

 

But i think i have a better idea about it now Thanks /:)

[Roger]

Some also modify the descriptions a little - like Richard, who has invented a Cursive Italic - an Italic with softer edges to allow cursive writing.  The difference between that and a stub might be less than significant.

Yes, and that's allright as long as one stays within a given nibmeister's line.

 

It is reasonable to assume that since Richard grinds both cursive italics and stubs, that his examples will be different from each other even if difficult for us to discern, depending on our skill as writers. The difficulties compound when attempting to discern the difference in say, Richard's 0.7mm cursive italic vs. another's IM (italic medium).

 

One company's edges are as smooth on their IM (italic medium) as on another nibmeister's stub and...well you see what I'm driving at, I'm sure.

 

I like the vast array of gradations that Richard makes available, since he describes them to a degree that is more specific than most other grinders. As a poor writer, I can not write so that a 0.7mm cursive italic is distinguishable from a 0.7mm stub, but many can!

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

For me, the stub is a nib that gives a simple 1:2 line variation. Stub-italic is slighty more crisp, but has round edges, and italic is the most crisp with sharp corners and give finer horizontals.

 

Dillon

[DWL]

I normally just adjust the tines and smoothen the nib a bit if it does not write well. But this can't be easily accomplished by a normal person.

 

Dillon

Say what??!!??

 

"But this can't be easily accomplished by a normal person."

 

Dude you seriously really need to put down the pipe or have a double shot of reality. These are just pens and aren't difficult at all to work on. Why do you keep promoting pen repairs as a semisuperhuman efforet only the truly blessed or gifted can work on? THEY ARE JUST PENS AND ANYONE CAN REPAIR THEM WITH A LITTLE KNOW HOW!

 

For example my 9 year old daughter was doing 51 vac filler repairs & nib adjustments with me last night and she is only NINE years old.

 

I'm going to stop here before I get on a nasty rant.

 

Get over yourself man.

Dennis

[Dillo]

I normally just adjust the tines and smoothen the nib a bit if it does not write well. But this can't be easily accomplished by a normal person.

 

Dillon

Say what??!!??

 

"But this can't be easily accomplished by a normal person."

 

Dude you seriously really need to put down the pipe or have a double shot of reality. These are just pens and aren't difficult at all to work on. Why do you keep promoting pen repairs as a semisuperhuman efforet only the truly blessed or gifted can work on? THEY ARE JUST PENS AND ANYONE CAN REPAIR THEM WITH A LITTLE KNOW HOW!

 

For example my 9 year old daughter was doing 51 vac filler repairs & nib adjustments with me last night and she is only NINE years old.

 

I'm going to stop here before I get on a nasty rant.

 

Get over yourself man.

Dennis

Hi,

 

Um, I did not mean superhuman...

 

I mean, if you know how to do it, well, that is. It takes time, and practice. Not to mention research. Someday though, I will teach people to repair pens, but not just yet since I haven't the time. Anyone can!

 

Dillon

[kissing]

Ooo~~teach me one day

 

The standard procedure I do with a faulty nib is what I said on this post. But after repairing more and more, I seem to be getting used to it and more quicker + efficient. (I managed to convert a squeeky fine point into a smooth oblique Stub in about 3 minutes )

 

One think I worry about is...If you cut the round tip off, like I have and grind it into a stub - Would the nib wear our quickly since there is not "tip"? I can't help but worrying constantly whether my custom stubs will wear out rapidly with use. Is this a delusion, or do nibs have to be "tipped" with a stronger substance to last long?

 

As with DWL's reply - I think there was a bit of misunderstanding. What Dillon meant as "normal person", i took it as referring to someone who has little experience with fountain pens. "Normal" these days is the most ambiguous and misunderstood terms of the century What is "normal"??!? :bunny1:

Edited July 27, 2006 by kissing

[Dillo]

Ooo~~teach me one day

 

The standard procedure I do with a faulty nib is what I said on this post. But after repairing more and more, I seem to be getting used to it and more quicker + efficient. (I managed to convert a squeeky fine point into a smooth oblique Stub in about 3 minutes )

 

One think I worry about is...If you cut the round tip off, like I have and grind it into a stub - Would the nib wear our quickly since there is not "tip"? I can't help but worrying constantly whether my custom stubs will wear out rapidly with use. Is this a delusion, or do nibs have to be "tipped" with a stronger substance to last long?

 

As with DWL's reply - I think there was a bit of misunderstanding. What Dillon meant as "normal person", i took it as referring to someone who has little experience with fountain pens. "Normal" these days is the most ambiguous and misunderstood terms of the century What is "normal"??!? :bunny1:

Hi,

 

Normal is relative, but that is what I meant.

 

Without tipping, the nib would wear out faster. Normally I grind just the tipping material of the nib.

 

Dillon

[kissing]

:bonk:

 

Perhaps in future, I'll avoid cutting the tip off

 

It didnt occur to me before that the tip of the nib is tougher than the nib itself. But that makes me wonder - some calligraphy pens such as the Sheaffer Viewpoint dont seem to have tipping. Are their nibs simply extra tough?

 

It just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable that my home-made stub nibs will wear out rapidly I wonder how long they would last...

[amh210]

Rapid wearing of a nib is a relative thing. It depends on how much you write. Rapid wearing of a nib you stubbed may mean it lasts 5 years instead of 15 years or 40 years. It isn't likely to be a problem for you in the near-term future unless you write huge amounts of texts.

 

If you were making a chisel-edge crisp italic nib, the sharpness of the edge would be a factor in nib wear, but since you are doing stubs, you are avoiding the sharp chisel-edge anyway.

 

The Esterbrook replaceable nibs, except the 9xxx series have untipped nibs. In the 30's and 40's and 50's, when FP's were the only pen options, the nibs wore out over time, but few of us, except for when we compose epic novels, are going to write as much as our FP toting ancestors.

 

Customizing a nib on the tipping material only is likely to be much more difficult since the tip is much harder.

 

If your custom stubs write the way you like them, just enjoy them. When your pocket-money flows in regularly you can indulge in a nibmeister custom stub (I just received on from Richard Binder on a Pelikan) and taste the differences for yourself.

 

Andy

[Dillo]

:bonk:

 

Perhaps in future, I'll avoid cutting the tip off

 

It didnt occur to me before that the tip of the nib is tougher than the nib itself. But that makes me wonder - some calligraphy pens such as the Sheaffer Viewpoint dont seem to have tipping. Are their nibs simply extra tough?

 

It just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable that my home-made stub nibs will wear out rapidly I wonder how long they would last...

Hi,

 

 

They do wear out quickly as I have experienced. Since I am expererienced, I may try to get you (Kissing) one of my pre-ground Pelikan Italics or Chinese tubular nibs in the future for you to try out. I am very sure you will like it. I also would like calligraphers to try my nibs, which I do find superior to some of the stock nibs. Eventually, I may decide to teach people who are interested how to do it. (Teaching, well, that is the FUN part.) I have discovered a way to make a smooth writing nib with crisp variation that has a razor-thin tip. From experience, I know that nothing that is made really, really sharp will hold a good edge. If you ever stop by the States, come by and I will teach you.

 

Dillon

[wimg]

What do you do to prevent the ink from flowing out as you are smoothing?  (I'm assuming these pens are disposables and you can't remove the ink supply.)

I let the ink flow while smoothing. The Smiggle $2 pens are refillable with short international cartridges (which i fill up with a pipette) and the Varsity's can be refilled if you really want to https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...15entry117468

 

Ink is a great lubricant for smoothing work, so let it flow I would say .

 

Considerign your nib adventures, I would recommend mylar for nib smoothing or shaping, especially if you're new to the business. This is the same stuff Dillo recommends. Grinding stones are generally too coarse and awkward to work with, and not as easily controllable as mylar, or MicroMesh for that matter.

 

Once you are more experienced, I recommend a Dremel type tool for shaping, with very fine polishing discs - note the word polishing here, IOW, not grinding discs. In shops that cater for miniature hobbyists, you'll find rubberised polishing discs. These are absolutely great to experiment with, and generally cost less than even the cheapest (fountain) pen.

 

Another option is to stick some mylar, s small round piece cut from a sheet, on a nail polishing disc used with an electric, battery powered, nail polisher. That works quite well too. Just use some double sided poster tape, the slightly padded variety, to stick it on the disc. Works very well, and the slow speed of the nail polisher makes that you don't overdo it easily.

 

Once you get the taste of nib meistering, there is no way back, though. Just had some fun with the nib of an Omas, my Dremel-type tool with flexible extension, a diamond cutting disc, a variety of polishing discs and some mylar for the finishing touches. The nib the Omas sported was a B, but now it is an 8 Degree Left Footed Cursive Italic ObliquiStub . I had a great time mutilating this nib , and the result is o so sweet... .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

There are very few of my pens with custom nibs.

 

I don't grind my own pens.

 

Dillon

[wimg]

Hi,

 

There are very few of my pens with custom nibs.

 

I don't grind my own pens.

 

Dillon

Hi Dillon,

 

Although most of my italics are factory fitted pens, I have a few, some of them ground by me, some by others. And mostly I grind for others too, including the Omas I mentioned above. But it sure is fun to do, IMO .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[DWL]

"I would fix it myself since I am a nibmeister."

 

"There are very few of my pens with custom nibs. I don't grind my own pens."

 

Dillon, If your a renowned nibmeister why don't you grind your own nibs?

 

Also just currious? Is that nibmeister title you keep tossing around self imposed or was it bestowed on you by the FP community for years of superrior service & quality of work?

 

Dennis

[kissing]

"I would fix it myself since I am a nibmeister."

 

"There are very few of my pens with custom nibs. I don't grind my own pens."

 

Dillon, If your a renowned nibmeister why don't you grind your own nibs?

 

Also just currious? Is that nibmeister title you keep tossing around self imposed or was it bestowed on you by the FP community for years of superrior service & quality of work?

 

Dennis

Instead of attacking and criticising his remarks in the forum over and over - why don't you find out for yourself by sending him a broken pen? Dillo often offers people services for their pens in topics, and I have read a few satisfied replies.

 

I'm sorry to butt in like this, but it is becoming more and more unsightly to read such comments and allegations like this, Dennis.

 

As far as I can see, people like Dillo are the aspiring young minds for the future of fountain pens. Please do not smother that flame.