Breather Holes In Nibs

[stevlight]

There are some nice pens I am interested in but every time I think about buying one I don't because the nibs do not have breather holes and do not look "right" to me. Namely Conway Stewarts and the new Parkers. These are beautiful great pens but the no holes in the nibs just don't look right to me. i know it probably does not effect performance but it stops me from buying one {not that i NEED ANY MORE FP's} but just wanted to share with people that would understand--or not.

 

So How does everyone else feel?

[ZeissIkon]

My first two fountain pens after coming back to them (away from around 1980 until earlier this year) had no holes -- a Yafa Cartridge Fountain Pen and a Dollar 717i. I found it odd, but both pens wrote very well (I traded the Yafa, but still have the Dollar and use it regularly). The hole isn't for ink management purposes, it's for stress relief, to prevent the nib from cracking, starting at the end of the slit where stress concentrates, and there are other methods of doing the same thing that cost less during manufacture than drilling or punching a hole in a nib that's already slitted.

 

Since I'm much more concerned with how a pen writes than how it looks, and since this saves money, which ought to translate into keeping the retail price of the pen down, I see it as a good thing -- someone is paying attention to their market.

[HenryLouis]

I agree. some watermans have them too.

[jar]

The hole was not for breathing. It was to keep the split from continuing.

 

Metallurgy has changed.

[EMM]

I just received a cheap Jinhao from ebay and it did not have a breather hole. I thought it was a defective unit but it writes normally, so I guess the hole isn't that necessary. I personally don't mind the lack of it, the nib still looks good enough.

[ZeissIkon]

Metallurgy has changed.

 

Not really. The slit is still a crack, as far as the metal is concerned, and still concentrates stress. Manufacturing techniques, however, have changed, and not all that recently. There were Parker 51s with holeless nibs (and that model went out of production almost forty years ago), though the hood on those pens means you'll never know it unless you disassemble the pen. The Parkers have a stamped circle around the end of the slit that performs the same function as the hole: to prevent a crack from propagating (the circle compresses the metal within, which prevents writing stresses from pulling it apart). I haven't had a modern no-hole nib off the feed to check, but I'd expect to find something similar underneath -- or else to find the manufacturer just didn't bother, in the case of the cheapest IPG nibs.

 

Also notable is that there's less force trying to extend the slit in the flat-top nibs often found in these lower-tier pens; pressing down on the nib doesn't spread the slit much, if at all, when there's little arch to the tines, and that means less stress management is needed.

[jar]

Metallurgy has changed.

 

Not really. The slit is still a crack, as far as the metal is concerned, and still concentrates stress. Manufacturing techniques, however, have changed, and not all that recently. There were Parker 51s with holeless nibs (and that model went out of production almost forty years ago), though the hood on those pens means you'll never know it unless you disassemble the pen. The Parkers have a stamped circle around the end of the slit that performs the same function as the hole: to prevent a crack from propagating (the circle compresses the metal within, which prevents writing stresses from pulling it apart). I haven't had a modern no-hole nib off the feed to check, but I'd expect to find something similar underneath -- or else to find the manufacturer just didn't bother, in the case of the cheapest IPG nibs.

 

Also notable is that there's less force trying to extend the slit in the flat-top nibs often found in these lower-tier pens; pressing down on the nib doesn't spread the slit much, if at all, when there's little arch to the tines, and that means less stress management is needed.

 

Sure it's changed. We now have water and laser cuts, more precise measuring means, far greater understanding, and improved alloys. We have better bodies and better feeds and greater repeatability.

 

We will see in 30 or 40 years how the new nibs perform but so far I am amazed at how nice they are.

 

AbE:

 

Let me expand a little more. The problem with the earlier cut slits was at the end of the cut there were severe corners. It was at those corners that the slit was most likely to continue. Newer methods can leave a rounded end to the cut which serves the same purpose as the earlier method which was to drill a hole and then cut down and into the hole.

Edited October 6, 2009 by jar

[mishugina09]

I must say it is not something I ever thought about before. Now I went and looked at all of my pens, realized about half and half on those that have breather holes and those that do not. I am not sure it bothers me really, I think its more about how well it writes.

[stevlight]

I know it is all about how the pen writes--that is why it bothers me so much that I have become fixated on this purely cosmetic issue.

 

They are called breather holes though--right? --I always thought besides relieving stress from the nib it was to allow the ink to "breath".--I think I made that up in my own mind!!

[piembi]

The heart shaped breather hole was the main reason why I bought my first vintage Sheaffer. Since I like the way the pen performs there had been some more vintage Sheaffers to keep #1 company

[eric47]

I know it is all about how the pen writes--that is why it bothers me so much that I have become fixated on this purely cosmetic issue.

Really, it's all (and only) about how it writes?!? Fixated by aesthetics and cosmetics, sounds like your taste ares changing.

Edited October 6, 2009 by eric47

[ZeissIkon]

Sure it's changed. We now have water and laser cuts, more precise measuring means, far greater understanding, and improved alloys. We have better bodies and better feeds and greater repeatability.

 

Changes in manufacturing process (laser and water jet cutting) or in measurement aren't a change in metallurgy -- they're a change in process. Make those same changes with an alloy dating from the 1930s, and you'll see an improvement in the end product commensurate with the improvement in the process. And I'm not certain the alloys we have now are really any better than those used in pens seventy years ago; modern stainless nibs are virtually certain to be either 18-8 or 316, both of which alloys were available (under trade names, with the precise composition a closely guarded trade secret prior to WWII) to 1930s manufacturers like Esterbrook and Wearever. They're a little cheaper, but that's due to competition and because exploration and international trade have reduced the factory dock price of chromium, not because anything has changed in the metallurgy. Yes, there are stainless alloys now available that blow away anything available before WWII for some applications (knife blades and aircraft parts, for instance), but they aren't the ones used in pen points, AFAIK. Pen points need corrosion resistance and workability, both of which were pretty much perfected long ago; they don't need extreme strength, extreme elasticity, or extreme temperature resistance, which are the improved properties of the late 20th century super alloys.

[Sparkle]

Cool! There's stuff I didn't know either. I always thought breather holes were necessary until I got my Waterman Phileas---which writes perfectly fine without one.

 

But I have to say a breather hole to me makes it look *authentic*

 

We're a weird bunch I know....lol

[jar]

Sure it's changed. We now have water and laser cuts, more precise measuring means, far greater understanding, and improved alloys. We have better bodies and better feeds and greater repeatability.

 

Changes in manufacturing process (laser and water jet cutting) or in measurement aren't a change in metallurgy -- they're a change in process. Make those same changes with an alloy dating from the 1930s, and you'll see an improvement in the end product commensurate with the improvement in the process. And I'm not certain the alloys we have now are really any better than those used in pens seventy years ago; modern stainless nibs are virtually certain to be either 18-8 or 316, both of which alloys were available (under trade names, with the precise composition a closely guarded trade secret prior to WWII) to 1930s manufacturers like Esterbrook and Wearever. They're a little cheaper, but that's due to competition and because exploration and international trade have reduced the factory dock price of chromium, not because anything has changed in the metallurgy. Yes, there are stainless alloys now available that blow away anything available before WWII for some applications (knife blades and aircraft parts, for instance), but they aren't the ones used in pen points, AFAIK. Pen points need corrosion resistance and workability, both of which were pretty much perfected long ago; they don't need extreme strength, extreme elasticity, or extreme temperature resistance, which are the improved properties of the late 20th century super alloys.

 

I don't disagree with most of that. So would it be acceptable to say that the breather hole in the nib is no longer considered necessary due to improvements in technology over the last 50 years?

 

The hole might become a marketing device though. It would be easy enough to laser cut a hole of any shape after as opposed to before cutting the split. As a way to introduce younger kids to fountain pens it could be cut in the shape of Cinderella, or maybe Sponge Bob. School pens could have a hole in the shape of Jonas or even the whole cast of Icarly.

[frostdoll]

The heart shaped breather hole was the main reason why I bought my first vintage Sheaffer. Since I like the way the pen performs there had been some more vintage Sheaffers to keep #1 company

 

Same here! I feel less silly to admit it

[ZeissIkon]

So would it be acceptable to say that the breather hole in the nib is no longer considered necessary due to improvements in technology over the last 50 years?

 

The hole might become a marketing device though. It would be easy enough to laser cut a hole of any shape after as opposed to before cutting the split. As a way to introduce younger kids to fountain pens it could be cut in the shape of Cinderella, or maybe Sponge Bob. School pens could have a hole in the shape of Jonas or even the whole cast of Icarly.

 

I think it would be very reasonable to say that, in flat top nibs, the breather hole is cosmetic, and even in deeply arched nibs (like the tubular nibs in Parker 51 and Hero copies) it can be replaced by other means of preventing cracking. I think there might be writing problems with breather holes having excessive area (due to too much ink drying), and in any case laser engraving the surface will carry much more detail than punching holes straight through (and is an easier path from a photograph, as well as requiring less laser power and time), but the presence of a breather hole is expected by "vintage writers" (a term that probably covers 60% of the membership of FPN, if you define it as people who first used a fountain pen in grade school and could choose multiple retailers in a small town from which to buy their grade school pen), which makes it a marketing feature already -- and still a perfectly reasonable way to "stop the crack" in a nib with significant arch (which includes most classic shaped nibs).

[Ondina]

I'm with you, Steve: no breather hole, no nice pen/nib. Aesthetics count, too.

[vxv]

i always thought it was to add flex to the nib?

i don't know if its the flex that makes it feel flexible, or the flexible that actually changes your lines.

[Paddler]

I recently acquired a fancy dip pen made with mother of pearl and gold. The gold nib is very flexible but has no hole. There is a nasty looking crack that originates at the end of the slit and extends into the body of the nib like a little, jagged lightning bolt. I guess as long as I don't flex the tines, the crack will not lengthen. The pen was essentially a freebie but still, I hate to see a nice piece of gold made useless.

[sidthecat]

It's interesting: I don't think I handled a fountain pen until I was in high school. We learned cursive writing with pencils and in the Sixties the Bic pen and the cheap fountain pen were the tools I used for writing and dip pens were my drawing tools. Nobody had a serious fountain pen until I saw I went to art school and saw guys with big Mont Blancs. I think they used them to get girls.